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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6008
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Please, your statements have no support. You're trying to make me believe you with only pure rhetoric as your argument. I'm a bit too jaded (and strong-willed) to be that easily swayed.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: October 19, 2006
Posts: 22
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look around you you can't argue with it! the trees are as real as God, without Him there would be nothing! What? you think He is doing nothing! Wrong! he heals sickness, casts out demons, & protects us! whether by the medical proffession, prayer, or miricalces, He does all of these TODAY! Revalation 4:8b states "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty who was, and is, and is to come." if god didn't exsist, you would be dead.
ribbit
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6008
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Contradictions depend on interpretation. Under certain interpretations, the Bible will always contradict itself. Besides, most biblical contradictions don't stem from words (which can easily be changed through translations) but rather the intent and meaning of certain passages (which can't be as easily changed). Indeed, the Bible was written by many different men, so certain small contradictions are to be expected. But if we say that the Bible is the direct word of God, then it must not have any contradictions because God is allegedly perfect and cannot make contradictions (which makes you wonder if he really can do everything, but that's a different point altogether). However, the messages of numerous passages in the Old Testament conflict with passages in the New Testament. And if that's not enough, passages in the NT conflict with yet other passages in the NT. The Gospels, for instance, have wildly different information about Jesus and his ministry. Yes, they were from different points of view and sometimes from second- or even third-hand sources, but some facts are so off-base from others that it's hard to figure out just what went on in certain situations. But again, this is all about interpretation. The Bible is a very vague work. It can be taken in a myriad of different ways, and not all agree with each other.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: October 19, 2006
Posts: 22
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quote: Originally posted by Grace2you:
Hi! I am a born again Christian and an Evangelist. You seem open minded enough to consider that you could be wrong. Lets say for conversation's sake that we are both wrong. I live a life full of peace and unexplainable joy,
then I die and thats the end of it. You live a life of some joy and at best it is temporary, leaving you to constantly looking for things to fill a neverending emptiness, only do die and burn in an everlasting fire because you rejected Jesus Christ. How terrible will it be?
I love you and God loves you, please don't let the devil lie to you and destroy your life here and in the afterlife.
i also am a christain, the Lord Christ Jesus be with you. the Bible is REAL. it has the most sound info, if you take the direct tranlation from hebrew & grek, it doesn't contridict itself!
ribbit
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Registered: October 19, 2006
Posts: 22
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Jesus Christ is the Lion & the lamb, the lily of the valley, the fairest of ten thousands, & many other things. Rev. 4:8 b "holy, holy holy, is the Lord God Almighty who was, and is, and is to come. quote: Originally posted by zeeta2009:
Hey I'm athiest and im looking 4 a debate on religion...but a friendly debate b/c i dont hav a problem w/religious ppl i jst wnt 2 see if i can get a few straight answers....
so here's my 1st question:
Frst of all, why is our god real but all the gods from greek and roman "mythology" aren't?? I mean who's to say that in a few thousand years people won't call "God" mythology?!
ribbit
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6008
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quote: atheists are people who have supressed the truth
An atheist would counter that theists suppress the truth. Accusations are not an accepted form of debate. You have a lot to say but not a lot to back it up with. How can you so easily discount another's beliefs yet refuse to even question your own? How do you know that the Greek gods were false? Could not your God just as easily be false? If there is only one God, why did the Greeks worship many? How could they have all been deceived? Let me clue you in on a little history: the Greeks did not convert to Christianity until the early years of the first millenium, when Paul travelled there to spread his message. God seems to have been a long time in coming to the poor, misguided Greeks. I'm sure the ancient Greeks would see your labelling of their gods as myths every bit as offensive as you see blasphemy of your God. You have quite the double standard there, and it undermines your credibility substantially. Do not expect people to believe you when all you have are unsupported statements. The historical accuracy of the Bible says nothing as to how accurate it is spiritually. Sure, we know where the Red Sea crossing took place and how it happened, but that doesn't mean anything. In fact it totally destroys the intent of the story. We know now that a meteorological phenomenon in the arm of the Red Sea where Moses is said to have crossed can cause the shallow waters to part, allowing a crossing on "dry" land to be made. God's power? A miracle? Hardly. Science is indeed showing that the history of the Bible is sound but often at the cost of the miraculous nature of it. What good is knowing how the Red Sea parted and where when God has been completely removed from the equation? Please, if you are to continue to post here, bring some proof to the table. Religious rhetoric is not especially welcome, considering most of us have heard it quite enough.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: October 15, 2006
Posts: 12
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quote: Originally posted by zeeta2009:
Hey I'm athiest and im looking 4 a debate on religion...but a friendly debate b/c i dont hav a problem w/religious ppl i jst wnt 2 see if i can get a few straight answers....
so here's my 1st question:
Frst of all, why is our god real but all the gods from greek and roman "mythology" aren't?? I mean who's to say that in a few thousand years people won't call "God" mythology?!
first of all to me you're not atheist because an atheist person only denies the power of God and not who He is or that He exists. you also put down why is our god real so if you are making that comment that means you are not atheist. atheists are people who have supressed the truth. gods from ancient greek and rome are only idles. they are statues that people expected to hear answers and miracles from, but there is only one true God, which is the one who created you and me. you don't have to wait a few thousand years to call God "mythology." because people already now say there is no god and also where is god and call him all sorts of names, which is blasphamy. don't let the enemy lie to you, you were created for a purpose. God loves you and i love you in Christ.
lilly kim
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Registered: October 15, 2006
Posts: 12
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just wanted to say that i believe the christian god is real and that the bible is real. there has been documentaries on trying to find places that were in the bible and what the researchers have been looking for has been found ever since. so i believe that the bible is real and there arer some facts to back up me thinking that the bible is real.  |
Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6008
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quote: Lets say for conversation's sake that we are both wrong. I live a life full of peace and unexplainable joy,
then I die and thats the end of it. You live a life of some joy and at best it is temporary, leaving you to constantly looking for things to fill a neverending emptiness, only do die and burn in an everlasting fire because you rejected Jesus Christ. How terrible will it be?
The problem with this is that you're assuming that anyone who doesn't believe in God will go to hell, even though you don't know this for sure. I am not an atheist, but I do not accept anyone as my savior, yet my life is full of peace and joy. I find happiness in things other than God. What happens after my death is irrelevant. You seem to understand that part of being open-minded is recognizing that there's the possibility that you're wrong. But that doesn't just apply to people other than you. You need to accept that you could be wrong just as easily as the next person. It could very well be that there is no God and belief in Jesus doesn't send you to heaven at all. I'm not saying that this is true, but it is a distinct possibility.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: October 16, 2006
Posts: 2
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Hi! I am a born again Christian and an Evangelist. You seem open minded enough to consider that you could be wrong. Lets say for conversation's sake that we are both wrong. I live a life full of peace and unexplainable joy,
then I die and thats the end of it. You live a life of some joy and at best it is temporary, leaving you to constantly looking for things to fill a neverending emptiness, only do die and burn in an everlasting fire because you rejected Jesus Christ. How terrible will it be?
I love you and God loves you, please don't let the devil lie to you and destroy your life here and in the afterlife.
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Registered: October 16, 2006
Posts: 2
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posted by itsallinyourhead:
I'm an athiest, so I don't believe in God. I would have to say he is a phony. And I know I'm going to offend people by saying my version of the bible, so if you want to hear it, contact me outside of the forum. But anyways, there are many reasons why I don't believe in God, and never will. As for why other gods from other cultures are supposedly "mythological", it's because majority rules on these matters, and majority says there's only one God. Personally, I think the Romans and the Greeks have a better concept than we do.[/QUOTE]
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Registered: August 20, 2003
Posts: 1689
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quote: So, instead of being a bad word and saying, "This is how it is," it would be more appropiate to say, "This is how I believe it is and here is why..."
Right...well, obviously if one posts in a religious debate without providing sources or the like, their contributions ARE opinion. What LadyFilth said was her opinion, and there really is no need to state "I believe" or "In my opinion" before all of one's points since there obviously are no true facts (that are upheld among all people) when discussing God. But, Worth, stating WHY someone believes a certain thing is necessary when trying to push a point across to others. So I'm definitely with you there, and anxiously awaiting further contribution from Lady.
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mystical. It is the source of all true art and science. --Albert Einstein
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Registered: June 14, 2004
Posts: 2721
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Thanks for bringing up my point, faerienite. LadyFilth cannot give me any cold, hard proof that what she says is the truth. And I can't give her any that says what I believe is the truth. So, instead of being a bad word and saying, "This is how it is," it would be more appropiate to say, "This is how I believe it is and here is why..."
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
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Registered: August 20, 2003
Posts: 1689
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Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13926
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She knows because as a cynic she can't be wrong no matter what she says
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
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Registered: June 14, 2004
Posts: 2721
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quote: Originally posted by LadyFilth:
The Bible:.
1. It's not real
2. Their stories of morals
God:.
1. No god
2. Believing only motivates us
3. Keeps us moral from fear of not being saved.
Well, I second most of what clpo says but I have one question. How do you know any of this?
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6008
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Did you happen to read the bit where I said many stories were based in truth, but not actually true? I watched a television special on Moses' "parting" of the Red Sea. It turns out that there's a meteorological phenomenon in the Red Sea area that causes the waters to part temporarily. What's more, there's a part of the Red Sea (one of the arms next to the Sinai Peninsula, to be exact) where the sea level is substantially less than the surrounding area and thus capable of being exposed for a short period of time for people to walk across. And for the clincher, they've found gold-plated chariot wheels of the exact type that the Egyptians used during the reign of Ramses II, who was Pharoah when Moses supposedly lived. I'm not saying that God necessarily caused this. I'm saying that the sea suddenly parted (an apparent act of God to the ancients, who knew little about weather phenomena) and the Hebrews took advantage of it. The Egyptians tracking them, however, were unfortunate enough to be in the middle of the sea when the phenomena ended, thus drowning and making it appear to the escaping Hebrews that they were being punished. Over time, the story grew and grew until everyone assumed God "saved" the slaves. So, this same principle applies to other such slightly unbelievable stories in the Bible, such as the various "appearances" of God's body parts (hands, face, even loins at one point) and pillars of smoke and fire. Even the star allegedly hovering over Jesus' birthplace in the manger was most likely a comet, probably Halley's comet. You've got to take the Bible with a grain of salt. It's not necessarily meant to be taken literally (which is where many conservative Christians make a mistake), but it's the messages behind the stories that people are supposed to learn from. Of course, that doesn't apply to everybody because the Bible is a Judeo-Christian book of history and doctrine, and I'm no evangelist. I just like to dispel ignorance.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: March 13, 2002
Posts: 3477
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quote: Originally posted by LadyFilth:
The object-material is real. But the stuff inside it, isn't real. They're just stories that tell you how to live. Theres no way moses could've lifted the sea or w/e.
To be accurate it wasn't Moses who did the actual lifting, but God working for Moses. Which is *slightly* more believable.
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?"
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Registered: February 10, 2006
Posts: 40
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quote: Originally posted by clpo13:
Of course the Bible's real. I can see it, touch it, taste it (tathst lahk pahper). If you meant that the content of the Bible isn't real, then you're half correct. Certain portions of the Bible are indeed historically accurate. For instance, there were such men as Jesus and his disciples (although perhaps not all of them and not by the exact same names), and the gospel writers--Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John--were all living writers, although perhaps not the people everyone thinks they are (meaning, it may not have actually been Mark who wrote the book of Mark, but one of his students or followers). Even a majority of the Old Testament is based in truth, albeit exaggerated into a kind of "moral story," as you put it, by this time period. For instance, there was indeed a large flood during the OT time, however it didn't cover the entire planet. Instead, it was most likely the flooding of the current Black Sea when the Mediterranean overspilled it's banks. The Black Sea was once a large valley, and when it flooded, it seemed to the people living there that the whole world was being inundated, even though it really wasn't (else the ancient Greeks and Egyptians would have noticed).
As for the non-existence of God, no one can prove that he exists, nor can anyone prove that he doesn't exist. I personally believe he does, but only because I've felt a greater presence when praying truly hard. In fact, I even asked God if he was there, and he answered, thus proving to me that God does indeed exist, at least in my experience. However, personal feelings are not solid evidence, and thus I can't really prove to other people that God is there, just as atheists can't prove that he isn't.
However, the God of brimstone and fire espoused by many pseudo-Christians and pseudo-Muslims was created in order to keep people in line. I doubt God is really that vengeful and violent, else we'd all be drinking blood and killing our neighbors over bread. Mmm, blood and bread...
The object-material is real. But the stuff inside it, isn't real. They're just stories that tell you how to live. Theres no way moses could've lifted the sea or w/e.
"Don't pick the scabs or you'll never HEAL."
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Registered: October 28, 2004
Posts: 1865
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if you want my personal opinions on religion check out my most recent post on the "Dude-ism" thread.
YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!
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