Okey, I'm veteran of YN, and I've been gone for a while, but it seems in my absence there are allot of new people, and allot of people confused about Christianity. So here I am 1 year into Bible College and oh so wiser! lol. But anyway, ask me any question, but please don't be narrow minded, or bigoted.

Just anything at all, don't hold back.

Korith,
As you seem to be very knowledgeable on the bible I would be grateful if you would visit my thread "the bible as it pertains to homosexuality" under spirituality here on YN. Your opinions would be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by jazzeykitten:
You have both posed some very good points, but what are humans besides a higher form of animal?

Just that! We are higher than the animals. Therefore, we should not want to become like them.

quote:

Originally posted by Barkid:
When Korith or myself talk about animal cannibalism, filicide, or any other strange animal behaviour we are not trying to change the subject or use straw man arguments, we are trying to show that animals don't exactly set a good example for humans.

You have both posed some very good points, but what are humans besides a higher form of animal?

lol at your puppy peeing on you. My best friend got a puppy recently and he's an excited pee-er. Not a very good idea to copy that.

Homosexuality in animals is a myth dear Jazzey. It is one of the tools that overzealous gay activists use to try and bully people around.
In order for homosexuality to be accepted it has to be proven that it is
A) natural
B) genetic
C) unchangeable
If these 3 things were true I personally would reverse my opinions on homosexuality. However since science has had a hard time grappling with the genetic and unchangeable portions they sometimes try to go with the nature argument, I.E. "if animals are gay than homosexuality is naturally occuring and nothing is wrong or weird about it".
The problem is that animals simply do not have the reasoning power we do and do not operate under the same principles. Since most of them have little if any reasoning capacity they operate on a strictly instinctual basis. When an animal is hungry it eats, sometimes if it is too hungry it's action will be to eat it's own offspring, resulting in filicide. If an animal is in heat or being driven to sex by another animal in heat, it may mount the closest thing to it regardless of sex. When an animal is confused it can do any number of activities from urinating where it stands to running to mounting the closest animal to it. As far as males mounting males, in some species this is a sign of dominance, a far cry from a homosexual relationship.
What of documented animal same sex relationships? One of the biggest studies of animal homosexuality revolves around lesbian seagulls and mountain goats. These animals form long time same sex relationships that include licking each other's private parts. Unfortunately even the notion that animals give each other oral sex is completely ridiculous, when I see my puppy licking his private parts I realize that he is doing it to keep clean, not to pleasure himself. I also don't follow my puppie's examples because just the other day he urinated directly on me when he got excited. Am I to pattern my behaviour off of his?
I think that in reality homosexuality does not exist in the animal kingdom, rather people read human emotion and sexuality into something that is occuring among animals. When Korith or myself talk about animal cannibalism, filicide, or any other strange animal behaviour we are not trying to change the subject or use straw man arguments, we are trying to show that animals don't exactly set a good example for humans.

quote:

Anyway, I'll get more to the point. Homosexuality is not looked down upon in the animal kingdom. Is it somehow acceptable for animals to "be gay" in God's eyes even though it's not okay for humans? Or is it simply a mistake?

Well, we are not (for example) dogs so we cannot know what dogs do or do not "look down apon". Dogs do not understand the concept of morality anyway, so they don't really "look down apon" anything...

Just because it happens does not mean it is acceptible. Especially not "in God's eyes".

Animals are not held under the law because they do not understand law. To model behavior after them is folly.

quote:

Originally posted by Korith:

quote:

If homosexuality is so wrong why is it that it is something that even goes on in the animal kingdom?

Because Animals are capable of being wrong as well.

:-D Sorry if my previous answer was not satisfactory, and if that one is not either, and you still are interested, could you try to rephrase? Maybe I am just misunderstanding.

That was a little better. lol I personally don't know what I believe yet. I just know that I don't believe what I was taught. I'm enjoying talking with you simply because it makes me actually work on what I believe even if I already know that it's not Christianity. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I'll get more to the point. Homosexuality is not looked down upon in the animal kingdom. Is it somehow acceptable for animals to "be gay" in God's eyes even though it's not okay for humans? Or is it simply a mistake?

quote:

If homosexuality is so wrong why is it that it is something that even goes on in the animal kingdom?

Because Animals are capable of being wrong as well.

:-D Sorry if my previous answer was not satisfactory, and if that one is not either, and you still are interested, could you try to rephrase? Maybe I am just misunderstanding.

quote:

Originally posted by Korith:
Murder, incest, rape and cannibalism also occur naturally in the animal kingdoms too. Are these therefore permissible as being "occurred in natural order"?

Lets be real. What is "natural" isn't always right.

No, no, no. Thank you for answering, but you didn't really answer. Skip everything about raping and crapping on the carpet. I wasn't wondering about dumping on my carpet. Take my question as it is, without throwing all of the extra stuff in there.

Murder, incest, rape and cannibalism also occur naturally in the animal kingdoms too. Are these therefore permissible as being "occurred in natural order"?

Perhaps a man rapes his daughter, then kills and eats her is justified in doing so because his hamster did it too.

Your right, the animals are not held to the standard of human beings, because we have a higher level of understanding then they do. My dog might pee on my carpet, and not the toilet, should I do the same? No. Because I know about stains, germs, and the very human concept of decency. Can I explain these things to my dog? I suppose I could, but he isn't going to understand. Lets not even get into the topic of defecation consumption...

As far as monogamy goes. Animals do no understand the concept of adultery or even marriage. I could "marry" my dog to another, this isn't going to stop him from "humping" (he's a puppy so he's a little... confused?) everything that moves.

Do you think that thievery is wrong? Suppose I stole everything out from under you, would be okey with this? It happens in nature, animals steal from each other all the time. If animals are not expected to honor others possession, then why should we? So should stealing be okey?

Lets be real. What is "natural" isn't always right.

I've got a question. My fiance' and I were discussing what we were raised to believe about homosexuality and monogamy, and I'll ask your opinion.

If homosexuality is so wrong why is it that it is something that even goes on in the animal kingdom? Sure they don't live by the same set of rules as humans, but did God create homosexual animals? Also, with monogamy, there are not many creatures that pratice monogamy (half of the time humans don't either) so is monogamy something that God actually expects his subjects to practice.

quote:

All of which was named was commited by Christians, this is undeniable. However, it also happened for hundreds of years before Jesus too. And has been done by just as many people who have no faith in anything.

And adding to that, people of nearly every faith (if not all) tend to use religion as an excuse for wrong actions. These people obviously have no true faith, or at least not much of it.

quote:

Originally posted by thedraconic1:

quote:

the part about God and the Temple

Yep. Whoops! At least you corrected me. (A good thing.)

I've heard several lessons and given a few myself on why Jesus himself never left us any writings or blessed items or whatever behind for today’s world. And it has to do long the line of what you said about the temple... because we would idolize it.

People (Christians and possibly not) would hold it up as a idol, the message would go from, "Jesus is the way..." to "Jesus touched this!" So what you said was right in one way, and you have a good point in it.

quote:

the part about God and the Temple

Yep. Whoops! At least you corrected me. (A good thing.)

Well obviously this is allot of fabrication and blame placing.

All of which was named was commited by Christians, this is undeniable. However, it also happened for hundreds of years before Jesus too. And has been done by just as many people who have no faith in anything.

Anyone can read that post and tell it is a close-minded and ill-informed, shot from the hip. Uncountless charities, and services have been offered by christians for hundreds of years to those whom need, and continue to help those in need. It is simple to remember and point out the flaws in anything, it is harder than anything it seems however to mention the good that comes from it as well.

I know it's not a question but I read this in the Prayer Board and saw that it got no response, and I was just wondering what you have to say about it.

quote:

Dear Lord, thank you, thank you for letting people kill in your name, thank you for being the base of the institution that has comited the most murders in human history(the vatican),
thank you for the witch hunts, for absolute monarchy, and for the poverty in wich half this planet lives, and above all, thank you for making us white amerians better than everyone else, for giving us the riches we deserve, and for justifying every stupid act our leader does,
Amen.
There's a piece of my mind on god(with a small G!) I find it hard to believe in something responsible for most of the bad things that are happening, and have ever happened in this world.
Study the inquisition, c'mon, they beheaded you for saying the world was round. And what about the misionarys that used rifles as bybles, and all the other mass-murders comitted in the name of god(with a small G!) Sorry but I cannot respect a god(with a small G!) that is responsible for such acts, and much less believe in his/her existence.
I know I'm gonna get flamed by a bunch of kids after they read this post but I don't care, because I believe and KNOW I am right. So say whatever you want, and if you want to write a coherent answer to my post, then start off by giving me a good justification for everything the church has done, give me a good justification for the MILIONS of people murdered for having independent beliefs and thoughts, and all the scientists killed in the past for their heretic ideas, wich in most cases proved to be true.

thedraconic1:

Yeah, all that sounds about right. Except maybe the part about God and the Temple.

God himself didn't rest in the temple but his glory (the same glory shown to Moses) was in the temple when it needed to be. God Himself move around as he saw fit.

"Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool. where is the house you will build for me? Where will my dwelling place be? Has not my hand made all these things, and so thay came into beiing?" Declares the Lord.
-Isaiah 66:1,2

"[Soloman's prayer to God:]But will God really dwell on earth with men? The heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! Yet give attention to your servant's prayer and his plea for mercy, O LORD my God. Hear the cry and the prayer that your servant is praying in your presence. May your eyes be open toward this temple day and night, this place of which you said you would put your Name there. May you hear the prayer your servant prays toward this place. Hear the supplications of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place. Hear from heaven, your dwelling place; and when you hear, forgive."
-2 Chronicles 6:18-21

But basically I think you have it down.

Korith, correct me if I am wrong somewhere!

God gave his son up to die because, once He made the rules He did not change them.

First, the laws were given, as to what could or couldn't be done. Sin (deliberately breaking the law of God) is punishable by death*, but all have sinned. Therefore, a sacrifice must be made in place of death, with repentance (going from the way of sin). DELETED** Christ's sacrifice was a better method, as no one could fulfill the Laws, needed a sacrifice in place of the old method, and needed help along the way of repentance and justification. Also, if God was in a fixed temple, the rest of us would leave the rest of the world alone and not evangelize. So, God made His presence available in all places and at for all who accept Him: We have grace and guidance.


* The topic of the fate of the unsaved now, and the fate of non-Jews in Old Testament times is one you'll either have to take up with someone later or God. I won't speculate now, but Isaiah comes to mind.

** I DELETED the bit here. It referred to the old sacrifices.

The link covered it MUCH better.

Still on the tree comparison, Korith? :-D

Long time no see Korith.