That's what I was thinking...but I'm like you, I could be wrong.

To me, this sounds obvious. But it's quite possible that I am wrong:

Peter actually wrote that before he died. The literature was just published afterwards (and, therefore, could have been altered). Correct?

Ignore this if I'm wrong.

I've never heard that Peter produced letters after he was dead. Maybe someone could explain more about that...?

quote:

Men have one less rib than women, because Eve was made out of one of Adam's ribs. That is a proven fact. I can't check a real human skeleton, but the ones you find in science classrooms aren't real people, so they can't be used as a reference. I'm assuming you were talking about one of those skeletons, and not a real one.

Sorry, they have the same amount. I even checked my anatomy books. Count, I beg you, for all things good under Moon-and-Star. If women had fewer ribs, their organs would be in danger of hurt

quote:

What literature did Peter and Moses produce after they were dead? I'd really like to know...

The letters of Peter
The Old Testement (respectively)

Wow...12 posts on the number of ribs men and women have. I stand amazed.

It was but a mistake, I agree.

And I am with clpo, although there is no need to repeat anything he said.

quote:

Originally posted by bluedemocrat:
Yes, you have. Now you know one of the biblical lies.

That isnt a biblical lie...that was simply a mistake on my part.

Yes, you have. Now you know one of the biblical lies.

Okay...I said I was wrong didn't I?

But you did say it was a proven fact, which was a lie.

Okay, so I was wrong about the ribs thing. Sorry about that...I never said I know everything...

quote:

Okay, no, I wont "shut up", then you wont have anything to respond to (negatively of course). If you are so set on that 4 different people wrote the Torah, who are they? You cant just make a statement that contradicts everything Christians are taught and not have proof and know who they are. And I actually dont know about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. BUt if I had to make an assumption, I think God was just saying what he was going to explain later (in Genesis 2). God created Adam first, and then Eve, not at the same time. That doesnt explain why Adam (and men in todays time) have one less rib than women.

Who are these "mysterious writers"? I don't know. Nobody knows. Here's a couple questions for you. Who wrote the book of Isaiah? Who wrote Daniel? Don't know? That's right. We have no flippin' clue who wrote many books of the Bible. Sure, you could go by the name and say that Isaiah wrote his book and Daniel wrote his, but you'd probably be wrong. These texts are so old and so edited that it is simply not possible to figure out who wrote what when. It cannot be done.

Also, I am not making this statement up. It has been proven many times by biblical scholars. Christian and Jewish scholars, no less. Three separate investigators discovered that the Torah was written by more than one person. The evidence? Doublets and the names of God. Also, there are distinctly two different versions of many stories, including Creation, stories about Abraham and Jacob, and so on. And quite often, one of the two versions of a story would refer to God by one name and the other version would refer to Him by a different name.

Take Creation. I only brought up the man/woman issue, but it goes much deeper. In Gen. 1, creation goes like this: plants, animals, man & woman. Genesis 2: man, plants, animals, woman. Looks a lot different to me. Now, for an even more convincing bit, the first version always refers to the creator as God. Thrity-five times to be exact. However, in the second version, He is always called by his name, Yahweh, 11 times. The first version never calls Him Yahweh, and the second version never calls Him God. Make your own conclusions about that.

So, now you'll probably want to know who the three people were who discovered this. The first, in 1711, was a German minister by the name of Henning Bernhard Witter. The second was Jean Astruc, a French professor. He published his findings in Brussels and Paris in 1753. Neither Witter nor Astruc made much impact. However, when Johann Gottfried Eichhorn, a known and respected German scholar and the son of a pastor, discovered the same thing about the first five books of the Bible, people began to pay attention.

Now, I'll take the rest of this from the paper I'm getting this from.

"He [Gottfried] called the group of biblical stories that referred to the deity as God "e," because the Hebrew word for God is El or Elohim. He called the group of stories that referred to the deity as Yahweh "J" (which in German is pronounced like English Y).

The idea that the Bible's early history was a combination of two originally separate works by two different people lasted only eighteen years. Practically before anyone had a chance to consider the implications of this idea for the Bible and religion, investigators discovered that the first five books of the Bible were no, in fact, even by two writers--they were by four.

They discovered that E was not one but two sources. The two had looked like only once because they both called they diety Elohim, not Yahweh. But the investigators now noticed that within the group of stories that called the deity Elohim there were still doublets. There were also differences of style, differences of language, and differences of interests. In short, the same kinds of evidence that had led to the disvoery of J and E now led to the discovery of a third source that had been hidden within E. The differences of interests were intriguing. This third set of stories seemd to be particularly interested in priests. It contained stories about priests, laws about priests, matters of ritual, sacrifice, incense-burning, and purity, and concern with dates, numbers, and measurements. This source therefore came to be known as the Priestly source--for short, P.

The sources J, E, and P were found to flow through the first four of the five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers. However, there was hardly a trace of them in the fifth book, Deuterononmy, except for a few lines in the last chapters. Deuteronomy is written in an entirely different style from those of the other four books. The differences are obvious even in translation. The vocabulary is different. There are different recurring expressions and favorite phrases. There are doublets of whole sections of the first four books. There are blatant contradictoins of detail between it and the others. Even part of the wording of the Ten Commandments is different. Dueteronomy appeared to be independent, a fourth source. It was called D."

What have you got to say to that? This isn't even counting your absurd rib theory, which has been refuted by many a person here. Admit it. The Books of Moses were not all written by Moses. It just seemed fitting for the ancients to ascribe his name to them. Publicity, you know. Besides, it was a well-known practice of that time to put your teacher's name on your papers. Aristotle's students did it.

Sunset - good site.

Do you HAVE any proof that women and men do not have the same number of ribs? And use a source that DOESN'T say anything along the lines of 'The bible says so.'

I have a link to prove that men and women have the same number of ribs. And it even has pictures.
Men and Women
-Sunset

I've already passed general mathematics, english, and chemistry. Who says you have to start college at 18? I could be second-year, and you wouldn't know. I am taking biology, chemistry, microbiology, and biochemistry. Its comomn knowledge men and women have the same number of ribs, there is no point in arguing it, its in every general biology textbook. And God never said men and women didn't have the same number of ribs, only that He took a rib from Adam and created Eve. That is all.

quote:

Originally posted by Jenos:
You really are an idiot. Women and men have the same number of ribs. And I am a forensics major, I think I would know.

Assuming your profile is correct (since you shouldnt lie and this is a youth site) you dont know anything about forensics at 18. That makes you a what- first year college student? All Youve taken is basic math, english, science and so on and so forth. If youre a special case thats great, show me proof that shows that men and women have the same number of ribs. Because I'm going on my backbone, which is God's Word. PLease and Thank You.

You really are an idiot. Women and men have the same number of ribs. And I am a forensics major, I think I would know.

Men have one less rib than women, because Eve was made out of one of Adam's ribs. That is a proven fact. I can't check a real human skeleton, but the ones you find in science classrooms aren't real people, so they can't be used as a reference. I'm assuming you were talking about one of those skeletons, and not a real one.

What literature did Peter and Moses produce after they were dead? I'd really like to know...

quote:

That doesnt explain why Adam (and men in todays time) have one less rib than women.

women have the same amount of ribs as men, check a sceleton.

quote:

Okay no, the first 5 books of the Bible (Gen., Exo., Lev., Num, Deut.) are called the Torah. And they were written by Moses. Even non-believers know that...

This is exactly like the Letters of Peter. It is funny that Peter, an illiterate jew, could preduce Greek letters three years after he died. It is also peculiar that Moses could produce literature about 700 years after he died.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

quote:

Okay no, the first 5 books of the Bible (Gen., Exo., Lev., Num, Deut.) are called the Torah. And they were written by Moses. Even non-believers know that...

Who's the one studying Judaism? Me. Now shut up and listen. Yes, the first five books alone are called the Torah. However, the Old Testament (as it is called by Christians) is called the Hebrew Bible.

Now, allegedly the Torah was written by Moses. That is not the case, however. By analyzing writing styles, it has been found that the Torah was written by four different people. One may have been Moses, but there are different things going on here that precludes the presence of a lone individual that wrote the whole Torah.

If it was only one person that wrote the Torah, explain how the creation sequence differs from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2. Yes, there is a difference. Genesis 1 has man and woman created at the same time. Genesis 2 has Adam created, and then Eve a while later. Why would Moses change his story? Thus, more than one person.

Okay, no, I wont "shut up", then you wont have anything to respond to (negatively of course). If you are so set on that 4 different people wrote the Torah, who are they? You cant just make a statement that contradicts everything Christians are taught and not have proof and know who they are. And I actually dont know about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. BUt if I had to make an assumption, I think God was just saying what he was going to explain later (in Genesis 2). God created Adam first, and then Eve, not at the same time. That doesnt explain why Adam (and men in todays time) have one less rib than women.

quote:

Okay no, the first 5 books of the Bible (Gen., Exo., Lev., Num, Deut.) are called the Torah. And they were written by Moses. Even non-believers know that...

Who's the one studying Judaism? Me. Now shut up and listen. Yes, the first five books alone are called the Torah. However, the Old Testament (as it is called by Christians) is called the Hebrew Bible.

Now, allegedly the Torah was written by Moses. That is not the case, however. By analyzing writing styles, it has been found that the Torah was written by four different people. One may have been Moses, but there are different things going on here that precludes the presence of a lone individual that wrote the whole Torah.

If it was only one person that wrote the Torah, explain how the creation sequence differs from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2. Yes, there is a difference. Genesis 1 has man and woman created at the same time. Genesis 2 has Adam created, and then Eve a while later. Why would Moses change his story? Thus, more than one person.