Prove me wrong. Then we'll see who knows what they're talking about.

You aren't doing a good job of proving anything, except that you don't know what you are talking about and you should leave it alone.

Well, naturally you would. If your mind is closed to what I'm attempting to prove, then of course you wouldn't understand. You already believe what that site spouts off, therefore you understand it.

No one else seemed to find it hard to figure out what I wrote.

clpo13 you got me confuessed. I understand what they said better than what you tried to say.

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It was "I am God, and I'm going to die so you can spend eternity with me." His message was that He was God. It wasn't about some sort of moral belief system.

what bible are you reading out of? I'm catholic and I find that statement freakin ridculous

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Unless, of course, you aren't Christian.

bzzzzzzzzt I'm sorry please play again cause that is absolutely wrong! annoying pain in the ass christians say that but folks these people also burn abortion clinics don't think we all think that way. The way I understand heaven is that if you haven't done serious evil you spend X amount of time in purgatory being cleansed of your sin and you go to heaven regardless of religion

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The distinction is that we don't have to die to get to heaven.

What are you talking about? Of course you have to die in order to get to heaven. It's called an afterlife for a reason.

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We're going to heaven no matter what we do.

Unless, of course, you aren't Christian.

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but I do know that the basis for acceptance to heaven is not grace and mercy but works and good deeds on earth.

That's because Muhammad wanted to encourage the Muslims to help others and contribute to the general well-being of everyone. Praying doesn't feed the hungry, in other words.

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If you really think about it though and research, his primary message was not "Love your neighbor as yourself" (although it is of great importance). It was "I am God, and I'm going to die so you can spend eternity with me."

So all of a sudden the Jewish covenant isn't valid? It seems awful capricious of God to abandon his chosen people like that. Of course the Jews weren't going to believe some guy from Nazareth if he claimed to be God. Clearly trying to get everyone to abandon what God had given them in the first place for some carpenter's son was a bad strategy.

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For the first point, that Jesus foretold his death and resurrection, you're right that that doesn't provide any proof. But keep in mind that Isaiah and other Jewish prophets from before Jesus was even born foretold it, down to details. There are entire books about that, if you want to dig deeper.

And Nostrodamus predicted all sorts of major disasters.

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What's the differnce? Isn't heaven God's major lure?

The distinction is that we don't have to die to get to heaven. We're not going to be barred because we didn't stand up for God. We're going to heaven no matter what we do. I'm not an expert on Islam, but I do know that the basis for acceptance to heaven is not grace and mercy but works and good deeds on earth.

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Ah, but people do die for what they believe in. The disciples may have fabricated Jesus' resurrection and the like, but they still must have believed his message to be true in order to have died for it, even if there may have been nothing miraculous about Jesus.

I understand why you'd think that, because a lot of people like to put Jesus in a tidy box, as some people say, and pass him off as a pretty cool philosopher who had good ideas. If you really think about it though and research, his primary message was not "Love your neighbor as yourself" (although it is of great importance). It was "I am God, and I'm going to die so you can spend eternity with me." His message was that He was God. It wasn't about some sort of moral belief system. So if the apostles believed His message was true, they believed He was God, and that if He said He was going to die and rise again, He would. If the apostles stole His body and spread the story of His resurrection, they know from firsthand experience that His message was not true. Like I said before, people do not die for something they know to be a lie.

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People do not die for something they know to be false.

Ah, but people do die for what they believe in. The disciples may have fabricated Jesus' resurrection and the like, but they still must have believed his message to be true in order to have died for it, even if there may have been nothing miraculous about Jesus.

I understand it's not an easy point that I'm trying to make, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

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Now, combine that theory with the disciples' deaths. Peter was crucified, upside down, for being a Christian. James was also martyred, beheaded by Herod's grandson. Andrew was martyred. Philip was martyred. Bartholomew was martyred. Thomas was martyred. And James was martyred. They endured horrible beatings and persecution and finally horrible deaths.

Sounds like some sort of curse...

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It's true that Muslims die for their religion. But I think the difference is that they are dying in order to get to heaven. Christians die because we would rather do that than hurt and disappoint God by disowning Him.

What's the differnce? Isn't heaven God's major lure?

A lot of the arguments you found on the website are stupid.
For the first point, that Jesus foretold his death and resurrection, you're right that that doesn't provide any proof. But keep in mind that Isaiah and other Jewish prophets from before Jesus was even born foretold it, down to details. There are entire books about that, if you want to dig deeper.

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Things that we see as commonplace, people like Josephus may have seen as miraculous, much as a vaccination for polio may have seemed to people in the 1940s.

That's a good point but doesn't really fit into what Jesus did. Vaccinations for polio do not heal men who have been blind from birth, or cleanse lepers, or feed thousands with a few loaves of bread and a few fish. You really need to be able to explain all Jesus' miracles in order to say what you said earlier.
To be perfectly honest I really never thought about any of those questions about Jesus' death and resurrection before I became a Christian. But my pastor talked about all of these questions, and arguments against what the Bible says happened, a while back, and though I don't remember all of them, one has always stuck in my mind. A lot of people say that Jesus' body was stolen, or his disciples simply made up that he had reappeared. Now, combine that theory with the disciples' deaths. Peter was crucified, upside down, for being a Christian. James was also martyred, beheaded by Herod's grandson. Andrew was martyred. Philip was martyred. Bartholomew was martyred. Thomas was martyred. And James was martyred. They endured horrible beatings and persecution and finally horrible deaths. People do not endure that for something they know to be a lie. People do not die for something they know to be false. It does not happen. Just think about it. Why wouldn't they disown Jesus and Christianity in order to save themselves? If they had stolen the body or made up the resurrection, then they knew it was a lie. For me, this is probably the strongest evidence of Christ's resurrection.

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A well thought-up story can convince anyone, especially if there exists a desire for change, as there was during that time period.

You're absolutely right. But people do not allow themselves to be crucified, eaten alive by lions, whipped and beaten to death, beheaded, and all the other terrible things the early Church endured (and the Church nowadays also endures, in other countries), for a story they believe. It's true that Muslims die for their religion. But I think the difference is that they are dying in order to get to heaven. Christians die because we would rather do that than hurt and disappoint God by disowning Him.
Now, if Christianity was some sort of hobby, or club, or political belief, it is highly likely that the disciples made up a lot and then convinced people of the truth. But it is not. It is so much more. It's more than a belief system, or group to identify with and belong. It's about connecting with God, loving Him and following Him and eventually spending eternity with Him.