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Picture of andersbranderud
Registered: October 24, 2009
Posts: 1
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I hope you will find this text interesting.
According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning (http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9403004).This paper is written by the cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin of the Tufts university and Arvind Bonde.)

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause. Since space-time has a beginning there was a first physical occurrence. Causality requires that the first physical occurrence had a cause. Causality and the fact that space-time has a beginning implies that this Prime Cause is non-dimensional and independent of space-time, i.e. a Creator.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Torah, see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Torah —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Some of the text is a quote from www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

The most common counter arguments are answered here: http://bloganders.blogspot.com.../counter%20arguments)

Anders Branderud
Picture of Brehon
Registered: January 22, 2005
Posts: 860
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quote:
It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause. Since space-time has a beginning there was a first physical occurrence. Causality requires that the first physical occurrence had a cause. Causality and the fact that space-time has a beginning implies that this Prime Cause is non-dimensional and independent of space-time, i.e. a Creator.


So your argument is that everything since space time began has a cause, and this means the universe has a cause. However, what you seem to have missed is that laws that apply to things inside space-time may not be necessarily true of things outside space-time or to space-time itself. i.e. your argument may not apply to space time.

But, in addition, David Hume's arguments about what characteristics this designer might show are pertinent. It might be an apprentice god who didn't design the universe very well, or a group of non-omnipotent gods or a god that doesn't care. Any of these pretty much destroy theology as it is commonly understood. Not a great argument then.


'I consider that there is nothing better or more enjoyable than life itself. It is not therefore to be wondered at if I am willing to purchase my life with my material possessions.' Geoffrey of Monmouth
Picture of Wolfie
Registered: December 18, 2005
Posts: 1643
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quote:
According to science our universe (space-time) has a beginning


Wow, just because the universe had a beginning doesn't mean it started with God.

The real physicists believe that universes are like bubbles. They bubble off of each other and there are many of them within the multiverse and even more multiverses within the omniverse. These parent and child bubbles (universes) are even connected by an 'umbilical cord,' which is the point at which the bubbled off each other. It is believed that blackholes cause big bangs to occur. Black holes warp space-time around them;l nothing escapes them (not even light). At the center of each black hole is a white hole. A white hole is all of the matter that the black hole has consumed except that all of this matter is crushed into an infinitesimal point (singularity). Now when the black hole collaspes what happens to the single point of infinite matter? It has to go somewhere... matter is not created or destroyed, it is merely warped. Now think about the big bang theory. The idea that there was an infinitesimal point of matter and then something happened. What if that something was the collaspe of a black hole in another universe? This would also explain why there is a super massive black hole at the center of the universe.

There are two gods. The false god and the true god. The true god is simply all possibilities, in other words, the omniverse or nirvana. the false god is the one that we humans have in our minds.


i stand for love and peace!
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