What is your opinion of "under god" being added to the pledge? (all opinions welcomed, dont be shy)

Personally, I feel that if we are to mention one religion, all others should be mentioned as well. And because of that I do not stand for the pledge. (another reason is because the pledge is almost forced and nothing should be forced that has to do with religion) What ever happend to seperation between church and state?!

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Originally posted by moovivor:
I say the pledge, but I make a point of not saying "under God." Regardless of my personal beliefs on it, I think it is wrong to include anything about God in something national like the pledge.

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Diddo!

I say the pledge, but I make a point of not saying "under God." Regardless of my personal beliefs on it, I think it is wrong to include anything about God in something national like the pledge.

i don't say the pledge in my school, i usaully sit through it. it's not becuz of the under god thing though, cause i believe in god. But i think that the pladge is stupid. people say it and they don't even know what it means! most people anyway. i swear at one of the schools i've been to, these kids were like, don't say plege, so they yelled I ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG... *shakes head* it was really dumb. but the pleage promises justice for all and liberty and all that stuff but guess what. no matter what we do there will NEVER be justice for all or liberty and whatever. i don't see why they should make us say something that everyone knows isn't true. I don't mind the under god thing, i believe he is real. But i don't like being forced to say something that no one believes.

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Originally posted by YouthNoiseMaster:
Al them librels gon dun ruin this cuntry wit al ther tak of god an they sez ther is no god but there god cas the bibl sez so ther!!!!!11!11!!!

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Wow...friggin genius. People like you make anyone who believes in the Bible look like back-woods rednecks with no true intelligence, therefore accepting anything handed them from their Sunday School teachers. As a Bible-believing Christian, thank you--I truly appreciate you furthering a pathetic stereo-type. Really helping us all out here...

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And Celtic, I meant school up until the end of high school. High schoolers would read it if it suited them, and they are more mature and more apt to try intellectual arguments. But, up until then, no, they wouldn't care about it.

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Highschoolers have control over themselves and choose what they do.

I like chocolate

I didn't know that.

Atheistic trends in schools and religious trends out of them.

Kinda funny, really.

And Celtic, I meant school up until the end of high school. High schoolers would read it if it suited them, and they are more mature and more apt to try intellectual arguments. But, up until then, no, they wouldn't care about it.

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After all, if there is such an anti-Christian trend going on in schools right now, why isn't that book more popular?

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There is an anti-atheist thread in AMerica at this time, we are a reactionary society.

I agree that we should have to mention all religions. I can't sit in my school while the pledge is being said. I have to stand, but I do not have to say it. That's my opinion.

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After all, if there is such an anti-Christian trend going on in schools right now, why isn't that book more popular?

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Kids don't want to sit down and read. 'Nuff said.

Ignorance, most likely.

I don't suppose I really require those sources. I was on this "Prove Myself Right" kick at the time. I do that occasionally. Makes for good debate.

I was just trying to show that they could mean something other than what the book's author claimed. Nobody can just say something and expect everyone to suddenly believe it without proof.

After all, if there is such an anti-Christian trend going on in schools right now, why isn't that book more popular?

The atheists are much worse. If I had my way, the world would be a much different place...a much happier place, but a much different place. But you demand context for these quotes, eh? I have greater cares than to research the backrounds of various nominal quotes from a bunch of backwater rouges...I will list the places the book perscribes the quotes to, (for the book (2000 Years of Disbelief, by James A. Haught) is open in front of me)but that is all. I do not intend dwelling ever over the petty insults thrown my way by a fundamentalist that I will never meet.

But do you really think these people christians (waves at list) Many of them are well known to have confined to no real religion, but the christians, as ever, like to suck into their masses the people thought of as "heros," from Christ to Guadalupe, and throw away the evil doers, like Hitler.

O well, and I have a question, which will not need sitings, How is it possible for a christian to be anti-sematic, if the Jews are the "chosen people."

What is wrong with "under god" being in the pledge? You don't have to say "under god" if you don't want to! This is coming from a long time atheist BTW...

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Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.. . . A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: 'Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice?'

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- George Washington

George Washington's Farewell Address - September 19, 1796

Quotes can be manipulated, without context. For example, they are used here to try proving the founding fathers were not Christian.

1st quote says only about apocalyptic beliefs.
3rd quote says about bondage, CONTEXT may mention government-established religion.
4th quote refers to battles between sects and, in Europe, whoever had power had their sect much more influential and they could force others to attend their sect's church. (see Justice Black's quote)
5th quote proves to a degree that john Adams was a unitarian, I suppose. I am not a scholar on their beliefs.
6th quote speaks of controversy (see note on 4th quote and quote at beginning)
7th quote concerns the difference between inspiration and revelation
8th quote, as I do not have it's source, I cannot say whether it refers to doubt or not. CONTEXT.
Thomas Paine wrote The Age of Reason (deistic, antibiblical), so that point is proven.
The 13th quote refers to superstition and dogmatism (which are closely related), not religion.
the 14th quote may have been true on paper but not in practice as there were church meetings for 40 years in Congress.
the 15th quote... the context is needed for me to get that one. What is he talking about?
the 16th one refers to the Bible saying that the things of God are not understandable by man. Or not? I can't tell you because I don't know what he said before it.

Thus I demand context for quotes, as they can be manipulated. For example, I could quote you, saying,

"Did you also know that the Puritans created a rebellion and threw out the King of England for one year, the only time England has not had a king (and beheaded him), and burned down the Globe thearter?" and "What about people who don't have a God?"
Put together, they sound like you saying that compared to Puritans, Atheists must be much worse.

It is easy to misquote. Unless that book quotes entire manuscripts, it could easily be misleading. That is what I meant by "Your book is biased." [See George Washington quote above] They did not all believe in the "the foolishness of religion in general."

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Man oh man, white washed American history, read up on history and then come back.

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One would expect Supreme Court Justices to know something of history.

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It is a matter of history that this very practice of establishing governmentally composed prayers for religious services was one of the reasons which caused many of our early colonists to leave England and seek religious freedom in America. The Book of Common Prayer, which was created under governmental direction and which was approved by Acts of Parliament in 1548 and 1549, set out in minute detail the accepted form and content of prayer and other religious ceremonies to be used in the established, tax-supported Church of England.

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Engel vs. Vitale alternate link

BTW... don't get started on school prayer. I just did a speech on it, and in the process grabbed about all of the books on Supreme Court cases I could find. I could argue for it, fairly well at this point.

This thread was supposed to be on the pledge, wasn't it?

If we implicitly live under the rule a god when there is clearly disease, famine, and poverty in the same country, why not include that into the pledge, as well? Not everyone who acknowledges the existence of god labels him/her/it as something positive.

i have to say that i done see how violence and poverty has anything to do with Gods name being in the pledge

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Originally posted by geminiangel521:

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No this is a nation that HAS poverty disease and violence. that has nothing to do with god's name being in the pledge! Good try though

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It has everything to do with God's name being in the pledge, you insolent moron.

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I fergot to sa Jacob is HOTTTT!!!!11

Al them librels gon dun ruin this cuntry wit al ther tak of god an they sez ther is no god but there god cas the bibl sez so ther!!!!!11!11!!!

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No this is a nation that HAS poverty disease and violence. that has nothing to do with god's name being in the pledge! Good try though

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It has everything to do with God's name being in the pledge, you insolent moron.