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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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quote:
Originally posted by thedraconic1:
quote:
And yes, the founding fathers were not christian, I have a book full of quotes from ALL of them denouncing religion.
Make sure you get the _context_ around what they say. It is easy to misquote things. Some things seem one way alone and completely different with its context. Are you sure they weren't denouncing the Church of England? Get context. Please. Your book is biased.
The book is QUOTES. QUOTES cannot be manipulated. Believe me, they are most definately talking about the foolishness of religion in general. I have greater cares than to type up an entire book for you, so please, do some of your own research. It is called 2000 Years of Disbelief. Can you get what it is about? Lighthouses are more useful than churches-Ben Franklin- Amen.
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1110
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quote:
Make sure you get the context around what they say. It is easy to misquote things. Some things seem one way alone and completely different with its context. Are you sure they weren't denouncing the Church of England? Get context. Please. Your book is biased.
Way to put fourth a truly subjective argument and then treat it as objective. Northstar didn't put fourth any of the quotes so it is not possible for you to derive if the book is biased let alone even imply that the quotes are out of context.
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -Teddy Roosevelt
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Registered: November 10, 2004
Posts: 16
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I don't see why people want to take it out. I mean its been in the pledge for a long time
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Registered: July 29, 2003
Posts: 176
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quote:
And yes, the founding fathers were not christian, I have a book full of quotes from ALL of them denouncing religion.
Make sure you get the context around what they say. It is easy to misquote things. Some things seem one way alone and completely different with its context. Are you sure they weren't denouncing the Church of England? Get context. Please. Your book is biased.
Scottie was here!
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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their crimes against humanity in America has really put a bad taste in my mouth about them. I hate how everyone thinks they are so perfect, especially now that Thanksgiving is coming up.
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
No, they were revolting against Protestantism becasue it still had ties with Cathlicism.
Interesting. I hadn't thought they were, but when trying to find more information, I found a site that said they were.
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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quote:
Originally posted by Ikki14Reed:
quote:
This nation is rooted in Catholicism as the Puritains and Quakers were the first to settle in what is now the US.
Weren't the Puritans Protestant?
No, they were revolting against Protestantism becasue it still had ties with Cathlicism. The Quakers were also a revolt, like the anababtists. savage has no idea what he is talking about. The Catholics were not here in great numbers until the 1870's. Jefferson once said, "can democracy really exist with the Roman Catholic Church?" People were really anti-catholic in the early years, up to the early 1900's. And yes, the founding fathers were not christian, I have a book full of quotes from ALL of them denouncing religion.
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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quote:
Originally posted by Ikki14Reed:
quote:
The Puritans were kicked out of England because they were stuck up tightwand. It was also not a good idea to tell the British that going to the play and the bear baiting was sinful. The puritans were horrible after they got here, they were some of the most bigoted christian groups at the time, other thatn the Catholics.
Hmm... You learn a new thing everyday.
Did you also know that the Puritans created a rebellion and threw out the King of England for one year, the only time England has not had a king (and beheaded him), and burned down the Globe thearter? They destroyed cultural venues throughout the "Commonwealth" during this time, and paid when king Charles II came back into power. And for what? to finalize the seperation of cathacism and Anglicanism. Yeah, great group of people...
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: February 19, 2004
Posts: 336
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quote:
WE NEED GOD in our Pledge of Allegiance, we've seen what happens wihtout HIM. (i.e., September 11th)
Sooo... You're saying he went *POOF* on the day of 9/11? Isn't God always 'with you,' as religious enthusists love to preach? And not having 'God' in the Pledge is going to make people automatically forget him? In that case, the Pledge is Christian's daily reminder that there is a God? quote:
when people give this stuff bout seperation of Church and State I just laugh
Well, hunnie, you better stop laughing and start researching. As a proud Atheist, I will not submit to a merge of church and state. quote:
has their own opinion thats what makes america!
Exactly why the "under God" part of the pledge should be taken out. We all have our own opinions, and including that phrase is pushing other people's opinions on us.
"Thou call'dst me dog before thou hadst a cause; But, since I am a dog, beware my fangs." -Shakespeare [The Merchant of Venice, Act 3 Scene 3]
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Registered: September 22, 2004
Posts: 889
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There is a separation of church and state these days. Therefore, I believe gay marriages and such should be legalized. The Christian foundation of this nation shouldn't affect our modern country anymore. Even so, I don't know what my stand on the "under God" in the Pledge is. I haven't really thought about it.
"Take risks and never regret them."
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Registered: June 03, 2004
Posts: 1144
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quote:
Originally posted by csichick1990:
First of all- This country WAS founded on Christian principles. Who was coming here to escape persecution? CHRISTIANS. PLEASE bring God back.
Sorry to tell you that you've been misinformed. It's okay. It happens to all of us at some point, but the thing is teaching yourself. The founding fathers of the United States were not Christian! I think it's hilarious that everyone thinks they were. John Adams (The 2nd U.S President in case you didn't know) is often quoted as saying, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" He was a Unitarian. Benjamin Franklin describes himself as "a thorough Deist." "I began to be regarded, by pious souls, with horror, either as an apostate or an Atheist." According to a Deist publication, a Deist is "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason." Several of signers of the Declaration of Independence were indeed Deist. As to your "Please bring God back" statement. Where did your God go?
1-We are all born originals - why is it so many of us die copies? 2- Life is tough... it's tougher if you're stupid.
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Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
This nation is rooted in Catholicism as the Puritains and Quakers were the first to settle in what is now the US.
Weren't the Puritans Protestant?
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Registered: March 09, 2004
Posts: 2913
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under god was put in the pledge during the 1950s, to show america was a bunch of christians against communism. Ironicaly enough christianty is the same thing as communism.
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Registered: November 03, 2004
Posts: 57
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This nation is rooted in Catholicism as the Puritains and Quakers were the first to settle in what is now the US. The Pledge is something we hold sacred as a country and taking "under God" out of the pledge is like taking him out of any other national document. God does not only apply to Christianity and Catholicism. Allah is another word for God in the Islamic religion Yahweh is another word for God in Judaism.
Hel-lo Infidels!!!-Michael Savage, Savage Nation
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Registered: February 02, 2004
Posts: 9212
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God in the pledge of alligance and so forth was meant to encompass all religions. A friend of mine was teling me about it just earlier today infact. "You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore |
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
The Puritans were kicked out of England because they were stuck up tightwand. It was also not a good idea to tell the British that going to the play and the bear baiting was sinful. The puritans were horrible after they got here, they were some of the most bigoted christian groups at the time, other thatn the Catholics.
Hmm... You learn a new thing everyday.
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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what about people that don't have a god?
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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quote:
What is your opinion of "under god" being added to the pledge? (all opinions welcomed, dont be shy)
I think it's good, because it's just saying "God". Not "Christ" or anything similar. WHich is kinda like saying "whatever you believe in".
"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
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Registered: August 12, 2003
Posts: 12
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quote:
Originally posted by northstar316:
Funny, I always thought it was founded on freedom of religion by people escaping religious persecution.
I don't think that they should have anything to do with religion in the pledge because of the key fact that not ALL Americans are Christians.
Tell me you don't drag that blade across your skin and pray for the courage to press down.
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Registered: October 06, 2004
Posts: 3372
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quote:
Originally posted by Ikki14Reed:
quote:
This country weather people like to admit it or not was founded on God and religious beliefs
Funny, I always thought it was founded on freedom of religion by people escaping religious persecution.
The Puritans were kicked out of England because they were stuck up tightwand. It was also not a good idea to tell the British that going to the play and the bear baiting was sinful. The puritans were horrible after they got here, they were some of the most bigoted christian groups at the time, other thatn the Catholics. "Puritanism is the fear that someone, somewhere, is happy"
O of where dost thou hail, Celephanil, Celephanil? Why dost thou wander in Tengelwar great, why on the sea do you sail?
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