I just wanted to know how many of you believe in Christ!

Question:
Do believe that God created the world?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
Do you believe that Jesus died for you and me?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
Do you believe that the judgment day will come?

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
Do you believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit?

Choices:
yes
no

 

YES I BELIVE IN GOD
YES I BELIVE IN Christ AS I BELIVE IN OUR PROPHET MOHAMED
NO CHRIST DIDNT DIE BECAUSE HE IS ALIVE AND HE'LL COME INSHA ALLAH BEFORE THE JUDGMENT DAY
TO SAVE THE HUMANKIND
AND YES I BELIVE IN 2 RELIGIONS BEFORE MY RELIGION AND THEY ARE THE CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM
BUT CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM HAS BEEN DISTORTED.

what do those questions have to do with believing in christ? he was a carpenter with some good ideas and morality. as for being the son of god, i think thats just a tool to help him spread his ideas, and to get people to want to live accordingly, i guess his plan backfired though, considering how his beliefs have been manipulated and have led to many wars and many unecessary deaths. pity.

quote:

This is again troubling in relation to the Judgement Day poll, which I thought only appeared in Judeo-Christian mythology, specifically Christian.

Judgement Day exists in Islam as well, so my votes might have messed up your calculations a bit.

quote:

Anyways, since the similarities in dates aren't enough, I'll go one further. Some Greeks in the Hellenistic Period (about 300-200 BCE) worshiped the deity Mithras, who played a small part in the mythology of Zoroastrianism. They developed a cult around this figure. He was believed to have lived an earthly existence involving great suffering and sacrifice. He performed miracles, giving bread and wine to people and ending droughts and disastrous floods. He proclaimed Sunday the most sacred day of the week, since the sun was the giver of light. He also declared the twenty-fifth of December the most sacred day of the year because, as the approximate date of the winter solstice, it was the "birthday" of the sun. The cult of Mithras gained quite a following among the lower classes of Greek society because of its clearly defined doctrine of redemption through Mithras himself, who was considered a personal savior.

I was reading about this in my ancient history course, and I was quite a bit surprised to see the similarities between Mithras and Jesus. It goes a bit beyond minor dates, doesn't it? (This is especially interesting when you consider all this came about 200+ years before Christianity.)

Interestingly, Wikipedia puts Mithraism as a Roman religion, but that's probably because the Romans were a lot more influential than the Hellenistic Greeks, though the Greeks were influenced more by the Persian Empire, where Zoroastrianism was produced.

Very interesting.

quote:

And Shade - if the teaching only applied for people who believed in it, then the claim that it is universal still stands up. It is feasible that at some point everyone would believe in Christianity, and therefore that the belief would be universally true. Alternitvely, I imagine that some of this doctrine is flawed, or is made relative like the Biblcal claims of faith healing - each claim is true for the believer but not for the non-believer because that is how the beliefs opperate given each individuals framework of beliefs. I din't explain that well did I?

Read my post assuming that what Christ said and did is Truth. I think that fixes your problem with it?

Brehon:

I am not really sure I understand your explanation to Shade's question.

The question as I understood it, is the Christian belief is that Jesus' doctrine is not limited to those who adhere to the doctrines but in fact everyone. Perhaps in specific the issue of Christ's sacrifice applying to all peoples but only being benefited from by those who accept it.

Is this correct?

I was actually really suprised by the poll results - doesn't that show a large problem to do with scientific evidence?

Actually, I voted yes to judgement day, but not because I believe in an omniscient God with a ledger of sins, but on the basis that since it wasn't capitalised it was just a day on which I would be judged.

Also, according to the poll there should be twelve Christians present (at least twelve who believed he died for each individual) but only eleven seem to believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This is again troubling in relation to the Judgement Day poll, which I thought only appeared in Judeo-Christian mythology, specifically Christian. How is it that fourteen (discounting my patently false vote) people believe in a Christian ideal of judgement but not in Christ himself?

And Shade - if the teaching only applied for people who believed in it, then the claim that it is universal still stands up. It is feasible that at some point everyone would believe in Christianity, and therefore that the belief would be universally true. Alternitvely, I imagine that some of this doctrine is flawed, or is made relative like the Biblcal claims of faith healing - each claim is true for the believer but not for the non-believer because that is how the beliefs opperate given each individuals framework of beliefs. I din't explain that well did I?

What I mean is that belief in God coheres with some peoples beliefs about the world, making it entirely reasonable and true for them. However, for some people belief in God does not cohere with thier beliefs, so cannot be true for them.

How can Christ apply to only a section of people (his believers) if the doctorine surrounding him says he is for all people?

Well, I am quite certain that Jesus Christ was a real person. However, I do not believe that he was the son of God, nor do I believe that any God/higher entity applies to me, nor a Judgement Day. But that doesn't mean Jesus and God aren't there for people who believe in them.

quote:

just out of curiosity what happened to YN? Its been a good couple months since i last logged and this place seems kinda dead now

All the foaming at the mouth ultra-religious right-wingers left, leaving us godless liberals with no one to poke fun at.

Or something along those lines.

Anyways, since the similarities in dates aren't enough, I'll go one further. Some Greeks in the Hellenistic Period (about 300-200 BCE) worshiped the deity Mithras, who played a small part in the mythology of Zoroastrianism. They developed a cult around this figure. He was believed to have lived an earthly existence involving great suffering and sacrifice. He performed miracles, giving bread and wine to people and ending droughts and disastrous floods. He proclaimed Sunday the most sacred day of the week, since the sun was the giver of light. He also declared the twenty-fifth of December the most sacred day of the year because, as the approximate date of the winter solstice, it was the "birthday" of the sun. The cult of Mithras gained quite a following among the lower classes of Greek society because of its clearly defined doctrine of redemption through Mithras himself, who was considered a personal savior.

I was reading about this in my ancient history course, and I was quite a bit surprised to see the similarities between Mithras and Jesus. It goes a bit beyond minor dates, doesn't it? (This is especially interesting when you consider all this came about 200+ years before Christianity.)

Interestingly, Wikipedia puts Mithraism as a Roman religion, but that's probably because the Romans were a lot more influential than the Hellenistic Greeks, though the Greeks were influenced more by the Persian Empire, where Zoroastrianism was produced.

*shrugs* Dunno.

just out of curiosity what happened to YN? Its been a good couple months since i last logged and this place seems kinda dead now

Well. I am on your side then. I think every Christian needs a good dose of Paganism and other religions smacked real hard into their head. Maybe then they'd realise how pagan Xianity really is. And maybe then the Church would stop being so vain and self-righteous and actually do what they're supposed to do for once: just follow Jesus. We believe he is the Son of God; some people believe he was just a good man or a good prophet. Those are all pretty much beside the point. Sure I personally believe that one of those will point you to the path of salvation, but more people should just listen to his words before they try to deconstruct the whole faith system of Christianity.

quote:

and for some reason Ive only noticed this in Christians.

When you put it that way, maybe so. Most non-Christians I've talked to about this seem okay with other religions holding a piece of Truth in their doctorine. Christians seem loathe to even consider it, which makes me somewhat sad. But what can you do? You can't honestly think to change a whole religion's way of thinking?

im not in the business of disproving Christians, I just want them to open their eyes and realize that everything that the "good book" has told them isnt all that its cracked up to be. It just angers me when you try to explain something to them that might go against Jesus they get all on the defensive and hate you after that. Ive had good friends almost want to fight me because I told them this but oh well....and for some reason Ive only noticed this in Christians.

Oh my god. One of my friends just posted this on their livejoural, and I'm in the middle of watching it. *worried*

Anyway. I actually have thoughts on it. I'm only a half hour into the video, but here they are.

There are other gods who share the story as well, such as Krishna (of some other religion that I can't recall right now..dammit).

The twenty first through the twenty fifth is the Winter Solstice, also known as Yule, a common celebration among many religions of the birth of the Sun God. Who cares? They stuck Xmas there to help convert pagans.

But my opinion is simple, and short. Who cares if there are similarities? Might that just support that there is one Truth observed by many different faiths?

What is so wrong with that, and why does it matter so much to people where they insist on "disproving" religion? Well, not religion: Christianity. That's the only target I've seen. Anyone want to take a crack at the old Celts? I hear they have a lot of similarities with Christianity and Hinduism. How about the Greeks, hmm? I'm sure you could obsess over how similar they are to the Romans? If you try hard enough, you might find some similarities with the Egyptians or the Hebrews as well. [/end angry rant]

Heh, I think I've heard that before. A lot of the Christian mythos is based on older religions. Halos are Egyptian sun disks. The image of God as an old man with a long flowing beard is the same as that of Zeus. The devil's pitchfork resembles Poseidon's trident.

I always thought the December 25 date was from a celebration of some Roman or Greek demigod, though.

My favorite, though, is the great flood. The version in the Bible is almost exactly the same as the version told in the Epic of Gilgamesh, except the Gilgamesh version is a lot older. The ancient Hebrews took a lot from the cultures surrounding them and incorporated that into their religion (Judaism). Thousands of years later, the Christians (who based their religion's history on that of Judaism) did the same thing: they incorporated pagan rituals and imagery into their own religion. It was mostly a way to gain followers and lessen the impact of a new religion, but it sure makes you think. I probably will watch the videos when I've got a chance.

ok quick summary (which by the way all 3 of those parts that i posted are strictly on religion)

A god was born on Dec 25 of a virgin birth
3 kings followed a star to the east to adorn the newborn child
was a prodical child teacher at the age of 12
was baptized at the age of 30 and began his ministries
had 12 disciples which followed him
performed miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water
was known as the "Truth" the "lamb of god" and many other names
was betrayed and crucified
dead for 3 days and was resurrected
sound familiar?

this is also the story of Horus the Egyptian sun god of the year 3000 bc. The fact of the matter is that the story of christ, along with many other gods from many other religions far before his time all share many similarities and its all astrological.

im not going to go into the full detail just watch the 3 vids (like i said its all on religion) so you wont have to watch the other ones although i do suggest you watch the part on the federal reserve. I agree with you guys that im not one of conspiracy theories and what not but this is just good stuff.

I'm with clpo, though I didn't even click the links.

Could you summarize? I don't feel like sitting through a pseudo-documentary that I already don't like for the bit about 9/11. They claim the movie is supposed to make you think critically about the world and come to your own conclusions (fair enough), but apparently, those conclusions are supposed to be to the effect that the American government orchestrated 9/11 and Bush is turning the United States into a police state.

The religion part might be interesting, though, but I really don't want to sit through it, considering how slow the first few minutes of part 1 went.