[quote]God sees a man about to shoot his wife in the head, and let's him do it. God could stop the man. But he doesn't. He just let's him pull the trigger. [quote]

Another flaw of this is, of course, that God being omnipresent he is both the man shooting and the woman being shot. And why is that example always a woman? It plays on stereotypes.

Whoa...there is alot to read here... and I'm still unimpressed by how so many things get taken out of context. Do people just not understand? anyway..

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Oh. Except for this little thing called Leviticus and Exodus. I mean, it was the just basis for Jewish law. Nothing important. Oh, and then if I remember right, wasn't there a passage in Jude where God destroyed all nonbelievers. Oh, and then James, where those who are merciless, you are too be merciless too. Oh, and lest we forget the Inquistion, Salem Witch Trials, and oh, this little thing called The Crusades.

Oh, and lest we forget the uber-Christian, Fred Phelps.

Yes, Christianity, aka the Bible, condemns murder. Ever heard of the little thing called the Ten Commandments or even read the Gospels. The things you have listed were wars from the Old Testament...long, long, long ago. At least that is what I believe you are referring to. Since you haven't referenced what you are referring to then I'm not gonna bother. And like I said before, individuals and even groups of people back then and Fred Phelps murdered people. Does that mean that what they did goes along with Christian teaching? Absolutely not.

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Every other religion with a Deity, and believes in the afterlife: "I know that there is a god, and that there will be more after this life."

What makes yours so special?

That was my whole point to Wolfie. Maybe if you read it ... she claims to say she believes in whatever it is she believes in because she KNOWS its right and doesn't understand why other people can believe in a God. Well my response: I know He's real.

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God sees a man about to shoot his wife in the head, and let's him do it. God could stop the man. But he doesn't. He just let's him pull the trigger.

If that is a just God, I would rather, on principle, burn in hell, then worship such a being.

See, what you are doing is putting the blame on God for what we do. This is a bit of a complicated issue but the way I see it is God knows all, yes. God doesn't reach his hand down all the time to make things happen or not let them happen though. Doesn't mean He doesn't or hasn't EVER interfered. He knows what will affect us and knows the kind of people we are. But does that mean He should come down and just give everyone what they want so that they inevitably believe? No. Because, in a way, that isn't giving us a choice. Long story short, God interferes, but in subtle ways so that we decide what it should mean.

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To a God, how would "Meaningful", matter? Why would such a powerful being, care? We are trivial.

Chaos, the point is, God does care. And why is that so hard to believe? Because God is powerful? Who ever said that with power love can't exist? Especially in the case of God. That whole question seems a little pointless.

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I also don't believe in this "all you have to do is say sorry and mean it" crap. That means those crazy nut jobs who kill/discriminate/whatever for God would go to heaven because they repent for their wrong doings.

I think the point is being missed here. In the whole scheme of things, all God asks is that you believe and have faith in Him. (and by Him, I mean all of Him). Justice is in God's hands. He forgives everyone even if they don't repent.

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I am annoyed by people who try and force others into believing in God their way. Religion is a very personal thing. Just because you veiw God as your father doesn't mean that's right for everyone else.

And sorry yogore, but nobody is forcing you to do anything. I don't understand why people say this shit. Can't people talk about God or is that too offensive? I don't see anyone on here saying "OMFG YOU MUST BELIEVE IN GOD OR YOU WILL GO TO HELL. DIE SINNERS I HATERE LYOU ALL!!!! " ..everyone needs to just calm down.

And to you Genesis may be the work of man, but you have many others who differ with that opinion.

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You obviously didn't have much of a father, Did not your dad give you rules? and did you not break them? you also missed the key, God forgives you your sins. If you are truly sorry, truly repentant for your crimes against His word your shall have a place at his side a few seats down from the pope and other spiritual people

You just came off as a complete ass. It doesn't seem very christian to insult someone's father. I also don't believe in this "all you have to do is say sorry and mean it" crap. That means those crazy nut jobs who kill/discriminate/whatever for God would go to heaven because they repent for their wrong doings.

I am annoyed by people who try and force others into believing in God their way. Religion is a very personal thing. Just because you veiw God as your father doesn't mean that's right for everyone else.

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read Genisis and rethink your statement

I will answer you with a quote of your own:

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that was the work of man not God

why do you think god allows what is happening to this world and and to kids.do you think if you God would you let this happen. What wpould you believe in God or having three wishes who would make the difference.

Supposedly by God's word.
In the name of God.
By people who follow God.
Who are supposedly inspired by God.
Against people who worship God.

I have read Genesis.
Now, once again, why does it matter?

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What I am saying is, it doesn't matter.
To a God, how would "Meaningful", matter? Why would such a powerful being, care? We are trivial.

read Genisis and rethink your statement

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Others are done injustices by those who claim to be of God. (Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, and The Crusades, anyone?)

your point? that was the work of man not God

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You dodged my question, is it more meaningful if the little robot you built choose to worship you or did so only because you said so?

What I am saying is, it doesn't matter.
To a God, how would "Meaningful", matter? Why would such a powerful being, care? We are trivial.

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You obviously didn't have much of a father, Did not your dad give you rules? and did you not break them? you also missed the key, God forgives you your sins. If you are truly sorry, truly repentant for your crimes against His word your shall have a place at his side a few seats down from the pope and other spiritual people

"Hi. My name is Bob. I am homosexual. Peter said that if I didn't repent, I'd be kept of of heaven. Yet, I'm not sorry for the way I feel."

So, what do you do now?

"Hi. My name is Ghandi. I preached non-violence. But I didn't repent to God. I guess I'm going to hell too."

Wow. Sorry for Ghandi.

"Hi. My name is Mother Theresa. I screwed over th entire nation, and did some very oddball stuff, such as shafting communities, and wanting to be in pain. Yet, I'm a Saint."

Yay. Atleast Mother Theresa get's go to up to heaven. It doesn't make sense.

My father gave me rules, sure. And I did break them, with a purpose. But for what reason I broke them, depended on the situation. Some of them, I broke based on principle. Some of them were broken, because they were wrong, and I believed they were wrong.

If God is to shaft me for my opinion, once again, I will gladly burn in hell.

The Pope is full of it, in my opinion, but that's another issue.

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again a choice and we have seen excellent examples of people doing good things in the face of death and at the risk of death all the time. For example the young lady who called the cops at coloumbine even though she knew that she was going to be killed if she did it. Sounds like she handled the situation rather deftley to me.

Ah. Here's the problem. God still let's people murder other people.

A choice? Hardly so. It can be argued that some people are pathological killers.
That they are ingrained to kill.

Others are done injustices by those who claim to be of God. (Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, and The Crusades, anyone?)

Others are told to kill by God himself. (Leviticus, anyone? Exodus?)

How does it matter what we do in the face of death. Once again, God the almighty programmer, would have known we were going to do it, therefore making it trivial.

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You're applying that a God would actually care about whether you're a mindless construct or not. As far as God should be concerned, we are just beings on a planet. Why would having free will, or worshiping with choice matter? It's superfluous to have a being that has a choice to disobey you. What would be the purpose? Just to watch us suffer? Isn't that a wee bit sadistic, even for God?

You dodged my question, is it more meaningful if the little robot you built choose to worship you or did so only because you said so?

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"I am your father. I have given you a set of rules, but you don't have to obey them. And I've given you the natural tendancy to want to break these rules. So you can do anything you want, and I know you'll do it. And if you do, when you die, you'll go to hell. Yayzors."

You obviously didn't have much of a father, Did not your dad give you rules? and did you not break them? you also missed the key, God forgives you your sins. If you are truly sorry, truly repentant for your crimes against His word your shall have a place at his side a few seats down from the pope and other spiritual people

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Yep. Nothing more then we can handle. Oh wait. There are these little people, called humans. They kill other people.

again a choice and we have seen excellent examples of people doing good things in the face of death and at the risk of death all the time. For example the young lady who called the cops at coloumbine even though she knew that she was going to be killed if she did it. Sounds like she handled the situation rather deftley to me.

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Again free will, and that man will recive his earthly justice from the hand of man and then his eternal punishment after his death by the hand of the Almighty. God does not want to control his creation directly, sure He might place us in exenuation circumstances but it's nothing more than we can handle no matter how bad it seems. If you go and make a robot that worships you and obeys your every command does that creation truly love you? does that creation want to worship you? does it choose to celebrate everything that makes you God? or is it mearly a mindless construct that worships it's creator for no other reason than because you say so?

Yes, it does. Why? It's saving your ass from burning in hell. If that's not saving a creation, I do not know what is.

"But you have a choice!"
Why? You're applying that a God would actually care about whether you're a mindless construct or not. As far as God should be concerned, we are just beings on a planet. Why would having free will, or worshiping with choice matter? It's superfluous to have a being that has a choice to disobey you. What would be the purpose? Just to watch us suffer? Isn't that a wee bit sadistic, even for God? I mean, I know he supposedly flooded the world (Or atleast claimed he did, whichever one you want), and killed everyone off. That's really Godlike. "Let's save my creation by axing them".

Hmm. Reminds me of hitler.

"Be Christian, or I'll send you to hell", is oddly familiar to "Be Aryan, or be sent to the gas chamber". (Not meant to downplay the Holocaust, but that's what it sounds like to me.)

He doesn't want to control his creation directly. He creates a being, then takes no responsibility for it. How is this God-like?

"I am your father. I have given you a set of rules, but you don't have to obey them. And I've given you the natural tendancy to want to break these rules. So you can do anything you want, and I know you'll do it. And if you do, when you die, you'll go to hell. Yayzors."

That's an abusive father, if nothing else.

"It's not more then we can handle".

Is that a nuclear bomb I see in the distance.... Oh Fu.. (boom).

Hey, why does that guy have a gu.. (Boom)

Is that a kni... (Stab)

Yep. Nothing more then we can handle. Oh wait. There are these little people, called humans. They kill other people.

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we don't see evolution every day, that type of change takes place over millions of generations. However there is evidence for evolution thanks to things like the fossil record, however there is no evidence for string theory being anything other than a tequila induced brain fart that wound up on paper.

Wrong.
Virsuses and Bacteria adapt. That is a basic, very basic, form of evolution. And they adapt on a near daily basis.

And as for evidence of String Theory, well, that's not really my department. I'm not a physicist.

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Hinduism has a pantheon of Gods and Godesses

Okay, so just make what I said plural.

Still, the question stands, what makes your God so special?

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God sees a man about to shoot his wife in the head, and let's him do it. God could stop the man. But he doesn't. He just let's him pull the trigger.

If that is a just God, I would rather, on principle, burn in hell, then worship such a being.

Again free will, and that man will recive his earthly justice from the hand of man and then his eternal punishment after his death by the hand of the Almighty. God does not want to control his creation directly, sure He might place us in exenuation circumstances but it's nothing more than we can handle no matter how bad it seems. If you go and make a robot that worships you and obeys your every command does that creation truly love you? does that creation want to worship you? does it choose to celebrate everything that makes you God? or is it mearly a mindless construct that worships it's creator for no other reason than because you say so?

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"Evolution is just a theory! Even though we see it every day! It's just a theory!"

Simply saying it is just a theory, doesn't make it untrue.

we don't see evolution every day, that type of change takes place over millions of generations. However there is evidence for evolution thanks to things like the fossil record, however there is no evidence for string theory being anything other than a tequila induced brain fart that wound up on paper.

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Every Hindu: "I know that there is a God, and that there will be more after this life." (If I remember right, Hinduism have a God. Maybe I'm confusing it with Bhuddism.)

Hinduism has a pantheon of Gods and Godesses

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Originally posted by ampmaster:
I'm sorry string theory is just that a theory and since there is no evidence for other universes and plenty of evidence against(infinite things cannot exist in the multiple for one). Also you asked for physics and I gave you physics no point getting pissed about it, oh and just to say if strong theory is correct, what started that motion?

"Evolution is just a theory! Even though we see it every day! It's just a theory!"

Simply saying it is just a theory, doesn't make it untrue.

You also fail to take in the possibility that the universe originated in motion. You see, Newtonian Physics dictated that an object in motion will stay in motion. If the universe originates in motion, then it will remain in motion. (Oh, just FYI, the laws of physics supposedly broke down at the origin of the universe. Tada.)

Also, take into note that is Newtonian Physics, which do not completely apply to the entire universe. Quantum Mechanics allows for many oddball options.

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Ever hear of free will? God allows us to make our own choices so God really doesn't get involved as much as most people seem to think he should. And as to over population? as much as fools and alarmists seem to think the world is over crowded is we lived at the same population denisty as LA we could all live in Texas and Oklahome, give or take a few mill to weed the rainforests and the like

That doesn't make sense to me.
Why would God say, "Oh, I am going to create a race, that I know is going to mess up, just to watch it mess up." Say God originated the universe. If he was powerful enough to do that, he should be able to accurately predict what is going to happen. Think of God like a programmer. If a programmer writes code, he knows what is going to happen with his code. Since God wrote the laws of the universe, he should know what is going to happen. Therefore, giving us free choice, he knew what that was going to do, and let it happen anyway.

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Wolfie: If you are actually going to be posting seriously, you need to do one simple little thing.

TYPE PROPERLY!

TYPE PROPERLY, OR MY FIRING SQUADS WILL KILTZ YOU!
If you can understand the text, why push proper typing?

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Its a shame that you think of religion in such a shallow way. I can't fully speak for the Muslim religion, but believe it or not, Christianity condemns murder. What some crazy, radical people do in its name or some other name should not have to reflect on the millions of people who have led truly selfless lives. And may I also ask that if you are going to try and point out some kind of issue, that could you please be specific? Blindly throwing out accusations does nothing for me.

Christians condemn murder.

Oh. Except for this little thing called Leviticus and Exodus. I mean, it was the just basis for Jewish law. Nothing important. Oh, and then if I remember right, wasn't there a passage in Jude where God destroyed all nonbelievers. Oh, and then James, where those who are merciless, you are too be merciless too. Oh, and lest we forget the Inquistion, Salem Witch Trials, and oh, this little thing called The Crusades.

Oh, and lest we forget the uber-Christian, Fred Phelps.

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See the thing you don't understand is that I KNOW that there is a God and that there will be more after this life. Whether I want it to be that way or not doesn't matter to me. I have a fulfilling life believing and following God. It does not suck the wonder out of my life. I am always looking at how extraordinary everything is and what is being done in my everyday life. If you don't believe that then thats your own problem. You think I'm wrong simply because you think you are right. Your little rants and raves don't do anything to prove you are right. The only thing is does prove is that you can't stand Christians because they don't believe in what you believe. Its ridiculous,

Every Islamic: "I know that there is a God, and that there will be more after this life."

Every Hindu: "I know that there is a God, and that there will be more after this life." (If I remember right, Hinduism have a God. Maybe I'm confusing it with Bhuddism.)

Every other religion with a Deity, and believes in the afterlife: "I know that there is a god, and that there will be more after this life."

What makes yours so special?

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As was mentioned many times before, we all have free will. We all aren't puppets being controlled by a bunch of strings while a puppetmaster does what he wants with us. We have choices and life isn't all rainbows and butterflies.

Yeah. I mean, it's not like God wrote the laws of the universe.

And knows every possible outcome.

And knows what you're going to do.

So in essence, he was deterministic, and knew what you were going to do.

And let them do it anyway.

"But God gave us free will! We have a choice!"

Not really. We're pretty much predetermined to do what we do, a result of all the factors before this moment, so, God, being the incredibly smart one he supposedly is, would know what we did, and once again, let us do it.

God sees a man about to shoot his wife in the head, and let's him do it. God could stop the man. But he doesn't. He just let's him pull the trigger.

If that is a just God, I would rather, on principle, burn in hell, then worship such a being.

Even though I see other people have responded to some of this craziness, I really could not resist.

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holliewood- did i call it stupid?

Yes, several times. Are you really that thick that you can't remember?

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and what do you care if i believe the idea of god is stupid?

I don't care. However, it seems to me like you have a problem with people who DO believe in the idea of God.

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why should you be insulted by this. i'll just burn in hell or whatever.

I am insulted by the fact that someone who calls other people stupid idiots who let a book think for them can even consider their comments to be an argument. Why don't you just come out and say it. You despise Christians and Christianity for no sensible reason. Your comments are just as logical as racism. And who on this site ever told you to burn in hell or whatever..?

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i do not wish to be apart of any religion that has killed others in its name. for instance, christians and muslims, the crusades, terrorism, the bible belt the fact that christians constantly contradict themselves.

Its a shame that you think of religion in such a shallow way. I can't fully speak for the Muslim religion, but believe it or not, Christianity condemns murder. What some crazy, radical people do in its name or some other name should not have to reflect on the millions of people who have led truly selfless lives. And may I also ask that if you are going to try and point out some kind of issue, that could you please be specific? Blindly throwing out accusations does nothing for me.

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also, how do the laws of the universe end up being what i say they are?

In your own words: "i believe in the laws of the universe i've decided."

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well when i talk about laws of the universe i mean einstein, newton, galieo, edison, darwin. those laws that have not been disproven in anyway except by the illogical explaination of "god"

The "illogical explanation of god" as you put it, has not in any way disproven the laws of the universe. Just as none of those studies done by those scientists have ever disproven that there is a God. As Einstein put it himself: "I do not think that it is necessarily the case that science and religion are natural opposites. In fact, I think that there is a very close connection between the two. Further, I think that science without religion is lame and, conversely, that religion without science is blind. Both are important and should work hand-in-hand."

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why should i consider what you have to say when its the same regurgitated crap i hear all the time? i did consider it and it did not scientifically make sense. its like believing that witchcraft exists.

Why should I be surprised by this statement?

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but if people are so displeased with their life then sure why shouldn't they have hope that they'll have a nice after-life? i on the other hand have a wonderfully fufilling life therefore if there is oblivion afterdeath i don't care!

Good for you..Do you see me insulting you for that?

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and that's something i don't think you understand, you have hope for something that might not exist, i have hope for something i know will happen, my life and how i live it. thats why i think god and religion is bs, it sucks the wonder out of life and makes everyone afraid of how they should live.

See the thing you don't understand is that I KNOW that there is a God and that there will be more after this life. Whether I want it to be that way or not doesn't matter to me. I have a fulfilling life believing and following God. It does not suck the wonder out of my life. I am always looking at how extraordinary everything is and what is being done in my everyday life. If you don't believe that then thats your own problem. You think I'm wrong simply because you think you are right. Your little rants and raves don't do anything to prove you are right. The only thing is does prove is that you can't stand Christians because they don't believe in what you believe. Its ridiculous,

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gawd. like i'm really going to listen to the results from a religious school anyway...

??

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why does god let people die like with the tsunami.. if god was real don't you think he would have saved all those kids? don't you think he would stop all the crime bullshit or at least have had someone write in the bible that it is Not good to have as many kids as possible because of over population? it doesn't make sense in the long run.

As was mentioned many times before, we all have free will. We all aren't puppets being controlled by a bunch of strings while a puppetmaster does what he wants with us. We have choices and life isn't all rainbows and butterflies.

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oh and as for the unmoving mover bs that unknown starting force is something called "string theory" which is universes crashing into others, so when ours implodes because the anti-matter at the center collapses we will die and crash into more anti matter starting another universe. theres your effing unmover.

I'm sorry string theory is just that a theory and since there is no evidence for other universes and plenty of evidence against(infinite things cannot exist in the multiple for one). Also you asked for physics and I gave you physics no point getting pissed about it, oh and just to say if strong theory is correct, what started that motion?

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gawd. like i'm really going to listen to the results from a religious school anyway...

That's like me saying that I'm not going to listen to the results of public schooling or Newton's college and is as your own statement foolish and confrontational (read "flamebait")

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why does god let people die like with the tsunami.. if god was real don't you think he would have saved all those kids? don't you think he would stop all the crime bullshit or at least have had someone write in the bible that it is Not good to have as many kids as possible because of over population? it doesn't make sense in the long run.

Ever hear of free will? God allows us to make our own choices so God really doesn't get involved as much as most people seem to think he should. And as to over population? as much as fools and alarmists seem to think the world is over crowded is we lived at the same population denisty as LA we could all live in Texas and Oklahome, give or take a few mill to weed the rainforests and the like

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Karma is not an individual thing that rewards you or punishes you.

I've always thought of Karma as more of a bank account style system the evil you do removes good karma and good acts increase it, the goal is to be well in the black by the end of your life and progress another step towards nirvana(in the Hindu sense of karma any way)

Also wolfie this is in deed a discussion forum so dismissing the opinions of others because you don't share them (feel free to argue them) and insulting the beliefs of others will not be tolerated (we're about tolerance here).

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yes karma is like that. karma can be good or bad. you can do good things and your karma will reward you and you can do bad and you will be hurt. therefore hurting someone who hurt you is almost like karma because instead of letting some force take care of things you take matters into your own hands. so it is karma except without the fate bs.

Do you know anything about Easten Religion at all? Really? Karma is not an individual thing that rewards you or punishes you.

meagan- it's called using your own grammar. in case you haven't noticed i simply do not add normal commas or capitalization. it would be improper if i randomly capitalized and did not but as i follow very specific rules with internet grammar; that is considered acceptable.

yes karma is like that. karma can be good or bad. you can do good things and your karma will reward you and you can do bad and you will be hurt. therefore hurting someone who hurt you is almost like karma because instead of letting some force take care of things you take matters into your own hands. so it is karma except without the fate bs.