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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6040
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This has plagued me ever since I was little. What makes one religion any more true than another religion? Does no one realize religions are nothing but a set of beliefs? Beliefs can't be "right" or "wrong". I'm posting this mostly because I've been told many times that non-Christians are screwed because they aren't Christians. And what's the reasoning behind this? "The Bible says so." Well. What makes the Bible so true? I mean, isn't there a possibility that the Qu'ran is the truth? Or the Torah? Why the Bible? And the answer inevitably is: "Because the Bible says so." This makes even less sense. The Bible is purporting itself to be the truth. Theoretically, I could write a book saying that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the Earth two days ago and everyone who remembers past that is a raving lunatic, and I'd be right because I'd put a little disclaimer in there that says, "This book is completely accurate." Of course, I'd get tarred and feathered and run out of town, if not worse. But is this any different than any other religious text? The Bible says that everything in it is true, but how do we know? Because the Bible said so? I'm sorry, but you'll need to be a little more objective than that. Anyone else feel really frustrated by this?
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: February 22, 2004
Posts: 13958
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The topic post reminds me of a joke A agnostic man who lived a good life died and at the gates of St. Peter "well I guess I'm going to hell" "quite the contrary" the doorman to heaven replied 'you can come in beacsue you lived a good life in fact it's a slow day so i'll gve you a tour of heaven" So St. Peter took the man on the tour and he saw people of every nation and religion all worshiping God in many ways. then as they aproached a darker walled off portion of heaven St. Peter turned to the man and said "We need to be evry quiet here" When the man asked why St. Peter explained "this is where we keep all the christians their faith would be crushed if they found out they weren't the only ones here" So the moral is "no religion is better than any other"
"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done"."
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Registered: April 03, 2004
Posts: 6525
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*Sighs*
The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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Registered: October 31, 2005
Posts: 105
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Okay risk. *laughs at self*
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring, Renewed will be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be King
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Registered: April 03, 2004
Posts: 6525
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Duna, if you would take a breath of air you would see that you and I are on the same side. Both the belief of God and evolution are theories obviously.
The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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Registered: October 31, 2005
Posts: 105
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OOOO... Now we get spescific. Yet the evidence often spoken of never shows its knowledgable head. How strange. How, finn, can evolution be tested? Humour me. Go ahead. Teach me of the laws of science and how they support evolution. Risika at least admitts that evolution is a theory. She says, though, that evolution has more evidence than the theory of God. This evidence must be an elusive creature indeed, <sarcasm> many boast of it yet few can present it.(christians included) When I said "so it has been...", I meant that for a long time people had been making up all sorts of stupid ideas that make no sense, using clpo(no offense meant clpo, I was just showing the frailty of the human mind) to show that humans can deceive themselves easily. clpo, great quote! It has more meaning than you know. quote: Religion without science is lame. Science without religion is blind.
Ponder it. Religions with no scientific evidence(most) are lame, and should be laughed off. Science without religion is blank and meaningless.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring, Renewed will be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be King
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Registered: April 03, 2004
Posts: 6525
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I do indeed realize that.  Just rambling on my opinions, my dear.
The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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Of course. I assume that you realize that we're on the same side of the debate, risk.
L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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Registered: April 03, 2004
Posts: 6525
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quote: Evolution isn't a religion anymore than Kepler's Law of Orbital Rotation or the Pauli Exclusion Principle is.
Of course evolution isn't a religion, it's a theory. Obviously. But what I'm trying to say is that evolution is more reliable than the theory of God. It has evidence. The Bible is the only reliable piece of evidence that is based on God soley. Evolution makes the Bible look like a piece of coloring paper.
The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6040
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"Religion without science is lame. Science without religion is blind." Just thought I'd throw in a random Einstein quote.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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Ok people. A religion is a set of beliefs used to explain the unexplainable. Science is based on observations that are used to form hypothesis which CAN BE TESTED and become theories. Science and religion are in no way connected. Both are used to make sense of the universe, only religion is what we want to see and science is what we actually see. Evolution isn't a religion anymore than Kepler's Law of Orbital Rotation or the Pauli Exclusion Principle is.
L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3709
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quote: This is the way it has always been with evolution and many other religions.(Yes, evolution is a religion. A religion is a set of beliefs, right? Then the theory evolution is a religion)
This always make me mad. quote: 1. Evolution merely describes part of nature. The fact that that part of nature is important to many people does not make evolution a religion. Consider some attributes of religion and how evolution compares:
Religions explain ultimate reality. Evolution stops with the development of life (it does not even include the origins of life).
Religions describe the place and role of humans within ultimate reality. Evolution describes only our biological background relative to present and recent human environments.
Religions almost always include reverence for and/or belief in a supernatural power or powers. Evolution does not.
Religions have a social structure built around their beliefs. Although science as a whole has a social structure, no such structure is particular to evolutionary biologists, and one does not have to participate in that structure to be a scientist.
Religions impose moral prescriptions on their members. Evolution does not. Evolution has been used (and misused) as a basis for morals and values by some people, such as Thomas Henry Huxley, Herbert Spencer, and E. O. Wilson (Ruse 2000), but their view, although based on evolution, is not the science of evolution; it goes beyond that.
Religions include rituals and sacraments. With the possible exception of college graduation ceremonies, there is nothing comparable in evolutionary studies.
Religious ideas are highly static; they change primarily by splitting off new religions. Ideas in evolutionary biology change rapidly as new evidence is found.
2. How can a religion not have any adherents? When asked their religion, many, perhaps most, people who believe in evolution will call themselves members of mainstream religions, such as Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism. None identify their religion as evolution. If evolution is a religion, it is the only religion that is rejected by all its members.
3.Evolution may be considered a religion under the metaphorical definition of something pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. This, however, could also apply to stamp collecting, watering plants, or practically any other activity. Calling evolution a religion makes religion effectively meaningless.
4. Evolutionary theory has been used as a basis for studying and speculating about the biological basis for morals and religious attitudes (Sober and Wilson 1998). Studying religion, though, does not make the study a religion. Using evolution to study the origins of religious attitudes does not make evolution a religion any more than using archaeology to study the origins of biblical texts makes archaeology a religion.
5. Evolution as religion has been rejected by the courts:
'Assuming for the purposes of argument, however, that evolution is a religion or religious tenet, the remedy is to stop the teaching of evolution, not establish another religion in opposition to it. Yet it is clearly established in the case law, and perhaps also in common sense, that evolution is not a religion and that teaching evolution does not violate the Establishment Clause.'
The court cases Epperson v. Arkansas, Willoughby v. Stever, and Wright v. Houston Indep. School Dist. are cited as precedent (McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education 1982).
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA610.htmlSee? Not a religion. Its just a branch of scientific study.
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Registered: March 30, 2005
Posts: 3628
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quote: This is the way it has always been with evolution and many other religions.
Could you explain this? I'm not being critical, just asking. quote: Yes, evolution is a religion. A religion is a set of beliefs, right? Then the theory evolution is a religion
But how? It has no God or set of ideologies that come within the package deal.
"I imagine a lot of people tune in simply to watch reporters get bitch-slapped by Mother Nature, and frankly, who can blame them?� Anderson Cooper
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Registered: October 31, 2005
Posts: 105
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FSM? Please, the proper name is Flying Spagetti Moster. How dare you take the name of the great one in vain! And anyone who refutes this is scientifficly inept! The spagetti was found in the crust, remember? quote: And the rest of it he makes into a god, his carved image, he falls down and worships befor it, prays to it and says "deliver me, for you are my god" ~Isaiah 44:17
So it has been for many years, that people worship what they themselves have made. clpo, the evidence can't support the flying spagetti monster, because you said the fsm made the world 2 days ago. I said the spagetti was found deep in the earth's crust. This is the way it has always been with evolution and many other religions.(Yes, evolution is a religion. A religion is a set of beliefs, right? Then the theory evolution is a religion)
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring, Renewed will be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be King
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6040
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I would probably write it off as an extreme coincidence. But I'd probably end up believing in the FSM if the evidence correlates that.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: October 31, 2005
Posts: 105
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The question is, what would you do when scientists found tiny traces of spagetti deep in the earth's crust, and consider your theory might be correct. Would you be amused and enjoy the attention, start beleiving that your theory was true, or would you have pitty for the thousands of stupid people you decieved?
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring, Renewed will be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be King
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Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6040
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True, true.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
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Registered: October 31, 2005
Posts: 105
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clpo, I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would believe your spagetti monster book. You know, the sort that question nothing. I doubt that you would would be tarred and feathered. 
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring, Renewed will be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be King
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Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3709
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Registered: September 29, 2004
Posts: 3690
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Humanity? On the spirituality board? Pfffft.
A lo hecho, pecho.
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