quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
Many people think that by just being good, or not killing anyone, that they have achieved a "good enough" status and are at peace with God.

If I understand correctly, you are saying the whole "faith not works" deal. Which, of course, is true. However, these actions come from the faith in God...so are you saying that anyone who is not Christian is also not moral?

Perhaps I should refine my scenario BoMoWo. Let's say that the job I'm applying for is a job that has been open for a long time with no applicants. There is no one who wants to take the job. And I apply, even though I'm underage. Now, just who was wronged there?

For the record, I know lying on an application form is illegal, but I did say the situation was hypothetical, didn't I?

Also, I do indeed think that what people don't know won't hurt them. For instance, why bother telling my parents I accidentally ran a stop sign a few days ago? There is no reason for it. And so long as I don't get fined for it, it won't affect them at all. So in my mind, that isn't wrong. Besides, I don't tell my parents everything about my life. Some stuff is meant to be kept private, don't you agree?

But I digress, which seems to be a habit of mine.

No one is ever wronged. All wrongs are justified because our ultimate goal is to get things for ourselves and ourselves only.

quote:

Thus in the same way, I can murder people and as long as no one knows that I murdered them, it won't hurt anyone therefore I am free from guilt.

Um, no. A true murderer would not feel guilt even if the planet found out.

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Think of it this way Baber. Let's say I lie about my age to get a job (completely theoretical, mind you). Now, I get the job and consequently the wages. The person hiring me finally gets someone to do the job. It's a win-win situation and nobody gets hurt. So was I being bad for lying? I personally don't think so. After all, no one was wronged.

Ah, but if this is the case, then you did harm someone. There is the person who is rightfully entitled to the job because they meet the necessary requirements.Now, if you take the standpoint of "what they don't know won't hurt them." Then the same morals should be applied to everything.

Oh, by the way if you lie about your age on an application, I'm not sure if you can get fined, but it is illegal and will be investigated.

Thus in the same way, I can murder people and as long as no one knows that I murdered them, it won't hurt anyone therefore I am free from guilt.

Now if you say that murder hurts the person being murdered then I would ask you this.

How do they know that anyone murdered them?

It is a never ending cycle of justification.

Think of it this way Baber. Let's say I lie about my age to get a job (completely theoretical, mind you). Now, I get the job and consequently the wages. The person hiring me finally gets someone to do the job. It's a win-win situation and nobody gets hurt. So was I being bad for lying? I personally don't think so. After all, no one was wronged.

quote:

Try to get into the mind more of the evils of society and the answer you'll get.

You don't consider lieing an evil of society?
Without it most of the evil of society really wouldn't be there.

So long as person N isn't greatly harmed by said lie, then there is nothing wrong with person D lying.

so who is to decide whether or not it greatly harmed person D

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what about lieing?

Try to get into the mind more of the evils of society and the answer you'll get.

Not men, old boys.

quote:

Originally posted by Baber:
nice to know that BoMoWo, reactionary05, and i share some of the same beliefs for the most part

We need more good men like you guys.

So long as person N isn't greatly harmed by said lie, then there is nothing wrong with person D lying.

what about lieing?

if person D lies to person N and all goes well and it helps person D then does that mean that its ok for person D to lie?

Morals stem from common sense. In other words, person X wants to stay free and alive. Thus he will not kill person Y because killing is illegal and he'll get thrown in prison if he kills person Y. So, person X has an aversion to killing.

The same goes for most other things as well.

nice to know that BoMoWo, reactionary05, and i share some of the same beliefs for the most part

quote:

tradition

in the tradition of what?
who started the tradition?

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
Morals come from realizing that we are inferior creatures, and incapable of ever achieving perfection and acceptance from God. In the understanding of our sinful nature, sin becomes exceedingly sinful and we begin to ssearch for how we can be made right with our creator. Many people think that by just being good, or not killing anyone, that they have achieved a "good enough" status and are at peace with God.

The Bible says that our righteousnes(or rightness, or morals) are as filthy rags.

Which in that case we have but one choice, and that is to turn to the great grace and mercy of God, repent and have the morals of Christ who was perfect because His grace covers our sin.

So in answer to your question, Morals come from God.

Amen.

Morals come from realizing that we are inferior creatures, and incapable of ever achieving perfection and acceptance from God. In the understanding of our sinful nature, sin becomes exceedingly sinful and we begin to ssearch for how we can be made right with our creator. Many people think that by just being good, or not killing anyone, that they have achieved a "good enough" status and are at peace with God.

The Bible says that our righteousnes(or rightness, or morals) are as filthy rags.

Which in that case we have but one choice, and that is to turn to the great grace and mercy of God, repent and have the morals of Christ who was perfect because His grace covers our sin.

So in answer to your question, Morals come from God.

tradition.

They come from the desire to maintain order in society and because (most, note MOST) humans have such feelings as guilt and regret.