found this on the train:
Q. I sometimes wonder if God loves me. If He is a loving God, why is there so much suffering and sorrow in the world?
A. In His book called the Bible, God explains that our sins are the cause for all the suffering and sorrow. It is true that God reveals His love to the whole world, as we read in one of the most quoted verses in the Bible:
John 3:16 - For God so [in this way] loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
However, God has more to say:
Proverbs 15:9 - The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
Psalm 1:6 - For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Q. But I am not wicked. I am a decent, moral person. Surely the good I have done in my life far outweighs whatever bad I have done. How can these verses apply to me?
A.By God's standard of righteousness even the most moral person is looked upon by God as a desperate sinner on his way to Hell. The Bible teaches that no one is good enough in himself to go to Heaven. On the contrary, we are all sinners, and we are all guilty before God.

Romans 3:10-11 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth , there is none that seeketh after God.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Q. If I am such a wicked person in God's sight, what will God do to me?
A.The Bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will come under eternal punishment in a place called Hell.

Deuteronomy 32:22-24 - For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

Q.Oh, come on now! Hell is not real, is it? Surely things are not that bad.
A. Indeed, Hell is very real, and things are that bad for the individual who does not know the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. The Bible makes many references to Hell, indicating it is both eternal and consists of perpetual suffering.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Matthew 13:49-50 - So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
II Thessalonians 1:7-9 - . . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

Q. That is terrible! Why would God create Hell?
Hell is terrible, and it exists because God created man to be accountable to God for his actions.God's perfect justice demands payment for sin.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death...
II Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 12:36 - But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Q. Does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought to life again to be judged and sent to Hell?
A.Indeed it does; that is, unless there exists someone who could be our substitute in bearing the punishment of eternal damnation for our sins. That someone is God Himself, who came to earth as Jesus Christ to bear the wrath of God for all who believe in Him.

Isaiah 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
I Corinthians 15:3-4 - For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Q. Are you saying that if I trust in Christ as my substitute, as the One punished for my sins, then I will not have to worry about Hell anymore?
Yes, this is so! If I have believed in Christ as my Savior, then it is as if I have already stood before the Judgment Throne of God. Christ as my substitute has paid for my sins.

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Q. But what does it mean to believe on Him? If I agree with all that the Bible says about Christ as Savior, then am I saved from going to Hell?
Believing on Christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in my mind with the truths of the Bible. It means that I have come to trust the whole Bible, God's law book to me. It also means that I have an on-going earnest desire to be obedient to the commands of the Bible. Thus I find I am truly happy when I am living like God instructs me in the Bible.

I John 2:3 - And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Q. ARe you saying that there is no way to escape Hell except through Jesus? What about other religions, including many that profess faith in Christ? Will their followers also go to Hell?
Yes, indeed. They cannot escape the fact that God holds us accountable for our sins. God demands that we pay for our sins. Other religions cannot provide a substitute to bear the sins of their followers. Christ is the only one who is able to bear our guilt and save us. Therefore one must leave his religion and come to trust only the Bible.

Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.
John 14:6 - Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me

Q. You keep referring to the Bible. How important is the Bible?
The Bible is the most important book in the world because it is God's Law book to the human race. By reading or listening to the Bible a person is in a place where God can save him if that is God's will for that person. Additionally he will also learn many wonderful and awesome truths about God and His salvation plan. Effectively he is hearing the voice of God because God is the author of the Bible and therefore is speaking to him by His Words (The Bible).

Psalm 19:7 - The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalm 119:1 - Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD

internet source

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Actually I was referring to God's action before the destruction of the city. God stuck the attackers of Lots house blind, so that Lot and his family could escape the city.

Ah, I see your point then.

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God is all powerful, so it was unnecessary to destroy the entire city to keep the men away from one household. The punishment is entirely disproportionate to the crime!

Actually I was referring to God's action before the destruction of the city. God stuck the attackers of Lots house blind, so that Lot and his family could escape the city.

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God is all powerful, so it was unnecessary to destroy the entire city to keep the men away from one household. The punishment is entirely disproportionate to the crime!

The "crime" as it were, wasn't just their actions specific to Lot. It was "sin" that had been spreading through the whole city, which Yahweh found distasteful.

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God is all powerful, so it was unnecessary to destroy the entire city to keep the men away from one household. The punishment is entirely disproportionate to the crime!

No, like I tried explaining to Nephilem before, God had already decided to destroy the city before that happened. That is why the angels went there, to warn Lot to get out before that happened.

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Ah, that may be true, but I am still wary of it.

Wary, of Wikipedia? Satan has stuck us Noisemakers at our heart!

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Which God did not approve of, and he struck the people of the city to keep them away from Lots house.

God is all powerful, so it was unnecessary to destroy the entire city to keep the men away from one household. The punishment is entirely disproportionate to the crime!

Ah, that may be true, but I am still wary of it.

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Brehon, for future reference, the wikipedia isn't very trustworthy... as everyone can edit it..

Which is why they have hoardes of editors who keep things straight. You can't put just anything on Wikipedia and expect it to stick. It needs to be verifiable, and if it's not, it gets nixed very quickly.

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Which God did not approve of, and he struck the people of the city to keep them away from Lots house.

Didn't He have it planned to destroy the city before that happened? I mean, that's why the Angels went there; to tell Lot to get out before it happened.

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No, he offered his daughters to the people of Sodom to protect the angels, because people wanted for him to bring them out.

Which God did not approve of, and he struck the people of the city to keep them away from Lots house.

Ah, no problem Shade.

Got it. My dyslexic mistake.

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Actually, he offered them to two angels, but go on.

No, he offered his daughters to the people of Sodom to protect the angels, because people wanted for him to bring them out.

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Here are some verses:


Genesis 19:1-9

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

Brehon, for future reference, the wikipedia isn't very trustworthy... as everyone can edit it..

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Lot also offers his daughters to the men of Sodom to prevent the male rape of his guests.

Actually, he offered them to two angels, but go on.

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Oh jeez! I hope this isn't you trying to be a smart ass.

Because you're obviously not getting it, Nephilim.

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I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for stating how I feel.

Oh jeez! I hope this isn't you trying to be a smart ass.

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Repeating an argument 1000 times adds no strength. Arguing reason against one who refuses to think logically is futile.

I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for stating how I feel.

* shakes head *

Repeating an argument 1000 times adds no strength. Arguing reason against one who refuses to think logically is futile.

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How can it be that day does not mean day?

Merriam Webster online dictionary defines day as the following.

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Main Entry: day
Pronunciation: 'dA
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English dæg; akin to Old High German tag day
1 a : the time of light between one night and the next b : DAYLIGHT 1 c : DAYTIME
2 : the period of rotation of a planet (as earth) or a moon on its axis
3 : the mean solar day of 24 hours beginning at mean midnight
4 : a specified day or date
5 : a specified time or period : AGE <in grandfather's day> -- often used in plural <the old days> <the days of sailing ships>
6 : the conflict or contention of the day <played hard and won the day>
7 : the time established by usage or law for work, school, or business

Obviously the word day has several meanings. In Genisis it is refuring to a specified time or period : AGE.
For the Lord’s Supper and the woman at the tomb, can you site the actual bible verses?

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Again Genesis comes to the aid of the non-believer in the instance of womens inferiority

Lastly, the bible is not anti woman. There are many verses in the bible which are very supportive of women. In Genesis Adam needs eve. You have a few examples of women in the Bible who had bad thing happen to them, however you forget that at this period of time woman were not treated as well as they are today.
Also in the bible Jesus offers a great example of how to treat woman. He held them in high regard.

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I appear to have been mistaken on this point;

Thank you.

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Finally. The walls of Jericho did have wall. This is an archeological fact, and I would like to see tour source which says that it does not have walls.

I appear to have been mistaken on this point; however, the evidence that my source (wikipedia) provides, inidcates to me that current archeological evidence does not suport the Israelites destroying it; i.e that if fell in an earthquake or an earlier siege.

'And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good:
and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he
called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.'
How can it be that day does not mean day? If this is the case then this Biblical creation story is of no use to us whatsoever. The Oxford English Dictionry defines day first as 'a period of 24 hours beginning at midnight. That seems pretty definte to me. To say that a day is a period of unknown length is nonsensical- the word itself is defined by a period of time.

On the question of the last supper, I believe John places it on a different day, before passover, whereas the other Gospels place it on Thursday night before Jesus was crucified on Good Friday.

The differing number of women is between Gospels: there being only Mary, or a large group of Jesus' female followers being there when they discover his tomb to be empty. I do not currently have my theology notes on this subject, so an actual Bible check may be required.

Again Genesis comes to the aid of the non-believer in the instance of womens inferiority: God created woman to be a helper of man. Lot also offers his daughters to the men of Sodom to prevent the male rape of his guests. In Judges a man brutaly murders his own concubine. Again Judges, Jephthath sacrifices his daughter by burning her alive for a foolish oath. The virtues assigned to woman in Proverbs 31 demean females, in that the only role where they can be a virtous woman is to be a housewife, and by only possessing certain virtues: meekness, servility and so on. I think that those instances are fairly malign to women in general.

Do these count as reasons for the Bible being false? At least it is not suitable to base the law of morality (or spirituality) upon. And certainly not history or science.