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Chrissy, are Jews and Msulims going to hell?

The Bible (new testament) says you have to confess that Jesus is Lord to go to heaven....

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Are you aware that Christianity was not the world's first religion?

yes

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Are the ancient peoples in hell because they weren't Christian? What was "god" doing during these times? Was he just waiting to be discovered?

this goes back to something someone, i think it was hubbabaloo asked about those who dont even know about Christ or the Christian religon....

you are exempt until you learn about Jesus and then if you dont confess then you wont go to heaven.....so since they were unable to learn of Christ i guess it doesnt apply to them.

i answered your questions the best i could....

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But you still haven't answered my question: who is to say that a religion is right or wrong?

That's the point of religon. You just have to have faith, no matter how mindless it is.

Chrissy, are Jews and Msulims going to hell? Are you aware that Christianity was not the world's first religion? Are the ancient peoples in hell because they weren't Christian? What was "god" doing during these times? Was he just waiting to be discovered?

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But you still haven't answered my question: who is to say that a religion is right or wrong?

i feel christianity is right because Jesus fufilled prophecy that was outlined in the Old testament.....

as opposed to islam because

The coming of Muhammad was not foretold.Muhammad is the "prophet" of Islam. At age 40 he claimed that he was a prophet and apostle .
Jesus on the otherhand was CLEARLY prophesied about hundreds, THOUSANDS of years before His coming.

"Muhammad was not sure if he was going to heaven himself:

The Prophet said, "By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me."
Hadith vol. 5, no. 266

i dont go for jewish religion, because i do believe that Christ is the Son of God, they feel hes yet to come. (that is a faith based thing however.) they dont feel that Christ fufilled prophecy because world peace was not established when Christ came (i think)
but Christians believe that part of the prophecy will be fufilled in the second comming of Christ.

again it is really just a faith thing....

if i may what religion were you clpo...and what do you mean you stopped because everything was to black and white?

Everything about religion is black and white, which is why I stopped being religious a few months ago.

But you still haven't answered my question: who is to say that a religion is right or wrong?

clpo....some questions about religion are not black and white, you have to have an ounce of faith.....

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goes back to faith

What kind of half-assed answer is that?

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So then who is to say who's point of view is right or wrong?

goes back to faith

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They are the same God, according to Christians and Jews, yet they have different agendas and different aspects. So wouldn't it make sense to say that the Jewish God is not the Christian God

they are the same, but God sent/made Jesus and Jesus saved the people, Jewish religion doesnt buy into that. they still follow the "Torah" or the Old test.

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The God in the Old Testament is wildly different from the God presented in the New Testament.

"God poured out all His wrath on Jesus Christ. That is what the Bible says. And, as a result, God isn’t angry at anybody anymore. He is extending salvation., It’s just a different covenant. And Jesus said that. I’m instituting a new covenant. The old covenant with the children of Israel had to do with observing laws, rules and regulations. And when they broke those laws, rules and regulations, they broke the covenant, and they lost out on the blessings of God. But over and over again, they returned to Him. And I love some of the Psalms, where they talk in terms of “His mercy endures forever. His loving-kindness endures forever.” And you need to keep that picture in mind. God hasn’t changed. His loving-kindness endures forever, and it was in His plan and purpose to have a Messiah, to have a sacrifice for all sin for all time. And that plan was made and written out in the Old Testament. It’s a different covenant."

(Gordon Robertson)

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Then why do they? The first reading from the Bible at church (or at least at Lutheran churches) is always a passage from the Old Testament. If the Old Testament is obsolete according to Christianity, why do they still read from it? Or why is the Genesis creation story still touted as being what really happened? Or why do kids learn about Noah and the Great Flood in Sunday School?

we dont follow the rules laid out in the O T, because of a new covanent....the "things" that happened are still relevant......
the only difference is the rules...

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So God created something (the sperm needed to impregnate Mary) from nothing? That goes against the basic laws of the universe. You can't get something from nothing. Not even God can do that, unless you're a Catholic.

You must remember that religions are naught but sets of beliefs. Beliefs can't be wrong or right. So you can't have right or wrong religions. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Anyways, if you ever decide to study other religions as in depth as Christianity, you'll notice as I did that all religions have the same basic beliefs under all the fluff.

again, faith

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almost everything in religion is a "point of view" or interpratation

So then who is to say who's point of view is right or wrong?

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it just shows that these Gods are not one in the same, there are just to many differences. which, i believe was the point of this thread.

Ah, ah, ah. According to the different religions, the gods may seem different, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are different. For instance, Islam says that Allah is the same as the God of the Hebrews and of the Christians.

The God in the Old Testament is wildly different from the God presented in the New Testament. They are the same God, according to Christians and Jews, yet they have different agendas and different aspects. So wouldn't it make sense to say that the Jewish God is not the Christian God?

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which isnt relavent for Christians to follow.

Then why do they? The first reading from the Bible at church (or at least at Lutheran churches) is always a passage from the Old Testament. If the Old Testament is obsolete according to Christianity, why do they still read from it? Or why is the Genesis creation story still touted as being what really happened? Or why do kids learn about Noah and the Great Flood in Sunday School?

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because he is God, he created the universe, touching and impregnating a virgin was probably rather easy compared to that.

So God created something (the sperm needed to impregnate Mary) from nothing? That goes against the basic laws of the universe. You can't get something from nothing. Not even God can do that, unless you're a Catholic.

You must remember that religions are naught but sets of beliefs. Beliefs can't be wrong or right. So you can't have right or wrong religions. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Anyways, if you ever decide to study other religions as in depth as Christianity, you'll notice as I did that all religions have the same basic beliefs under all the fluff.

Because God isn't a spirit! (Mormon belief, so don't say that that's not true other Christians. It's not mainstream Christianity). God has a defined body and is SEPARATE from Christ and the Holy Spirit (another Mormon belief).

Oh, and clpo, I LOVE Huston's Smith's "The World's Religions." It's one of my books for World Religions class. But we mostly use a book that's written by Mormons and compares it to Mormonism to present it in a way that you can grasp it better.

Anyways, another side note. I thought that the Buddhists pay some homage to Buddha, and therefore have some worship involved, but yes I agree it's mostly a philosophy on how to escape misery. And not a bad one either.

well at least this time you gave a book as a source,....

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This is another "point of view" situation.

almost everything in religion is a "point of view" or interpratation

almost all the things you type were and almost all the things i typed were....

Allah is unknowable (a point of weiw)

God is knowable (a point of weiw)

Allah is nonpersonal (point of view)

God is personal (a point of weiw)

Allah is not a spirit (accordind to the religion)

God is a Spirit (accordind to the religion)

Allah is not a Father, nor Jesus the Son of God
(according to the religion)

God is one existing in three persons, not three gods, but one God (according to the religion)

Allah can do anything with no limitations (according to the religion)


God cannot go against His immutable nature e.g. (according to the religion)

you get the idea....it just shows that these Gods are not one in the same, there are just to many differences. which, i believe was the point of this thread.

even if there were only one difference, they still arent the same,

it would be like saying, well chrissy is human, so is clpo, the only difference is *age/belief*
but they still must be the same cause they are both human.....

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Let me remind you that God decided on a whim to switch around languages at the Tower of Babel. I wouldn't trust a god that would do that.

"a point of view" and it is old testament, which isnt relavent for Christians to follow.

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The same goes for Jesus supposedly being the Son of God. How exactly could God, a spirit, impregnate Mary, a human, and conceive Jesus, a semi-divine prophet of sorts? He was just a man. A very wise man, but a man nonetheless.

because he is God, he created the universe, touching and impregnating a virgin was probably rather easy compared to that.

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This just sparked a thought. It seems to me that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion. I mean, they have a small theological aspect, but it seems more of a philosophy. I mean that in all respect of their religion, but it just seems that way.

Actually, Buddhism is more of a philosophy than anything. They have no god, they have no distinct afterlie. It's all just karma and reincarnation. Pretty sweet deal, actually.

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you provided no site at all.

Foolish mortal! I got my information from a class on world religions, which probably came from a book, the title of which I know not. However, if you really want a source, try Huston Smith's "The World's Religions", which gives equal looks at all world relgions, and yes, even backs up my claims.

And even though I'm no expert on Islam (my realm is more Christianity than anything), I'll try to disprove your points.

Allah is unknowable vs. God is knowable

Psh. No supreme being is knowable. You can't know what you don't know how to know. The Bible makes the mistake of applying human characteristics to a nonhuman being. What use would God have for loins (which the Bible mentions)? Islam got it right that we're all agnostics at heart.

Allah is nonpersonal vs. God is personal

Again, a supreme being who is obviously greater than all mortals combined wouldn't be personal. Although, I suppose that depends on your religious worldview.

Allah is not a spirit vs. God is a spirit

In this case, I'd have to go against Islam. What else would a supreme being be? Since all gods by their very nature are omnipresent, they can't have a corporeal form, thus they must be spirit-like. However, I find it interesting that the Biblical God is only one-third spirit, the other two-thirds being the "Father" and the "Son," implying some sort of familial relationship which is highly improbable...but I digress.

Allah is not a Father, nor Jesus the Son of God

Again, since gods are non-corporeal (i.e. beings of energy or some such thing), they cannot possibly be able to impregnate and thus conceive a child. That's not even touching on the fact that the idea of a god being father to a human child is a wholly Greek idea, and the ancient Greek religion is pagan, which is anathema to Christianity. The same goes for Jesus supposedly being the Son of God. How exactly could God, a spirit, impregnate Mary, a human, and conceive Jesus, a semi-divine prophet of sorts? He was just a man. A very wise man, but a man nonetheless.

God is one existing in three persons, not three gods, but one God

How is that even possible? If I were a Christian, I'd undoubtedly be a Unitarian. How exactly can you divide up God and not end up with three equal gods? And why even bother? Isn't one enough? Gotta go with Islam on the whole "one God and one God only" thing. Makes a mite more sense in the long run.

Allah can do anything with no limitations

And God can't? I suppose that just goes back to the age-old, "If God can do anything, can He create a rock He can't lift?" In this respect, Allah does fit the idea of a supreme being a little better with the whole "no limitations" bit. A little more explanation on your part would probably help me understand that.

God cannot go against His immutable nature (God can't lie)

So God can't do everything...

Allah is capricious vs. God is trustworthy

Let me remind you that God decided on a whim to switch around languages at the Tower of Babel. I wouldn't trust a god that would do that.

Allah has no feelings towards man vs. God loves man

Now why exactly does God love man? Sure, he created them, but he also created tree sloths. So does God not love tree sloths, or did we miss the tree sloth savior? What I'm saying is, if the Universe is infinite, why does a supreme being waste all His infinite time mucking aroudn with us? Why not keep a little bit of distance like Allah does? Yeah, anyways, I got a bit off track there. I should study the Qu'ran more to understand what your site was getting at.

Allah doesn't personally enter human history. God came incarnate to bring about man's salvation.

This is another "point of view" situation. If you think Jesus was God, then yes, God messed around with world history. If Jesus wasn't God (just a messenger of sorts), then God didn't enter human history. I go with the second. Mohammed was to Islam what Jesus was to Christianity.

Allah provides no saviour or intecessor vs. God provided a Saviour

Ahem. What was Mohammed? Chopped liver? Although, I really fail to understand why there needs to be a savior. What exactly would this supposed savior save us from? Hell? High water? George Bush? Hehe...sorry.

Again, I have no website for you to peruse for reasons I stated above. If you really want to know where I got my "common sense", pick up the book I mentioned and read it.

nor am i going to take anyone serious who cant provide anything to back something up....ohh wait, i think "common sence" was mentioned...

the site simply showed the difference in the two religions......its title could have been "the cow jumped over the moon"

"The Quran vs The Bible

Allah is unknowable

God is knowable

Allah is nonpersonal

God is personal

Allah is not a spirit

God is a Spirit

Allah is not a Father, nor Jesus the Son of God

God is one existing in three persons, not three gods, but one God

Allah can do anything with no limitations

God cannot go against His immutable nature e.g.

God cannot lie.

Allah is capricious

God is trustworthy

Allah has no feelings towards man

God loves man

Allah doesn't personally enter human history. God came incarnate to bring about man's salvation.

Allah provides no saviour or intecessor. You're on your own. No concept of grace.

God provided a Saviour through His manifold grace. "

now please disprove this with something more than "common sence"....and i will bow out and shut up......

Perhaps they should've asked for you unbaised proof.

If they didn't, well then it's their fault and not yours, and I apologize. When your site is as obviously biased as to have jesus-is-lord as its title? Well, no one is going to take you seriously.

euterpe,

i wanted proof, if it is common sence then it shouldnt be to hard for clpo to find, afterall, when i post something, i get a bunch of posts thrown at me saying,.......prove it!
why cant i do the same

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you provided no site at all.

Because for most of us, it's common sense.

But, as they say, common sense isn't common.

yes, clpo i didnt mean kill,

rid: convert, change,.....etc

it just states the difference in the two Gods...can you disprove what i typed from that site about the differences between the two, Islam, and Allah?

you provided no site at all.

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Originally posted by clpo13:
Chrissy, Chrissy, Chrissy...you don't know anything about Islam do you? You're even taking your so-called "facts" from a site that is titled "Jesus Is Lord" and calls Buddhism a pagan religion. What kind of sense is that?

This just sparked a thought. It seems to me that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion. I mean, they have a small theological aspect, but it seems more of a philosophy. I mean that in all respect of their religion, but it just seems that way.

Sorry. Taking World Religions this year. Not even getting HS credit for it. There isn't a credit for it. Stupid graduation requirements. But my mom says that it's important to understand other peoples' religions, and also to see that they all have particles of truth, they just don't have it all.

I'm really enjoying it, but that just sparked and I had to say it.

Chrissy, Chrissy, Chrissy...you don't know anything about Islam do you? You're even taking your so-called "facts" from a site that is titled "Jesus Is Lord" and calls Buddhism a pagan religion. What kind of sense is that?

It seems that you edited one of your posts, but the notification email I got said:

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Muslims for the cause of (Ala) say to "rid" all christians

That is simply not true. Not in any way. Unless by "rid" you mean convert. There is nothing in the Qu'ran that says for Muslims to kill people, especially innocents. It does say, however, that they must convert everyone to Islam, but the Bible says the same thing regarding Christianity.

Now, as for the part about it not making sense why one god would tell different people to do different things, that can be solved with a very simple answer: all the holy books of all the religions on Earth were created by man. Written by man, thought up by man, marketed by man. Perhaps something metaphysical was involved, but I highly doubt it.

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All Gods are different. Some may be similar and what they stand for may be similar, but all are different. Each stands for different ideas and versions of "right" and "wrong." And because there is so much diversity between these gods, they cannot be the same God.

Perhaps that could be a result of the culture that created the god? Hmm?

Even though I'm not religious, I do believe in religious plurality, meaning that all religions stem from the same basic beliefs (i.e. do good for other people). Now, the only reason we even have different relgions is because we have different cultures. I'm sure if everyone on Earth had the same culture, they'd have the same god. But that's not the case. Thus, different religions with similar or identical fundamental values.

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Let's put it this way: If someone is a wonderful, kind, hard-working, compassionate, etc. individual is there any reason why he/she should go to hell or any other kind of bad afterlife place for any reason?

Because the new testament says you cant be save by "good works" but salvation and faith

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of