God created the world and all living and non-living things
yet the world chooses to leave him out in evreything like:

-schools/education- isn't it funny how school choose not to mention God or teach about him and reject him
yet when there's a tragedy or something bad is happening everyone is on their knees praying and asking him to protect them
and if something bad happens they ask where God was in all this
God wasn'y welcome at school... don't blame God for things that go bad if you're not gonna rejoice and praise him for the good he's done

please reply with ur opinions and i'll prove u wrong lol jk but seriously... do
and if u wanna add to this.......

Well, since we apparently have conflicting views as to just what the US is (Tripoli saying not Christian, Tunis saying very much Christian), let's just throw the whole thing out.

yes the treaty of tripoli (along with article 11) was ratified.

Article 11 of The Treaty of Tripoli:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity [hatred] against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States [America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

This doesn't say that God and politics don't go together. It does say that the government itself is not founded on the Christian religion (although very likely heavily influenced by it) it doesn't say as a nation we wern't considered a Christian nation. It also in the end makes the American Christian Nation look really good compared especially with European Christians of that time who didn't accept muslims at all. This was an effort as to make the whole conflict not a "holy war".

Now as far as the Treaty of Tunis. Look first at the very first statement. "God is infinite." ok it is fine to say God, right.

"...the most distinguished and honored President of the Congress of the United States of America, the most distinguished among those who profess the religion of the Messiah, of whom may the end be happy."

this statement is in the introduction of the treaty. This statement refers to among those (U.S.) who profess the religion of the Messiah. What more needs to be said? who in all history was the only one called the Messiah. None other than Jesus. Anyway if you use the treaty of Tripoli, I will use the treaty of tunis and other treaties as well.

Also at the end of the treaty of tunis it states that it was "observed by the will of the Most High."

The U.S. also made sure to say that their date of signature of the treaty of tunis was in the "...month of August of the Christian year..."

There are some other treaties that are even more blatent about the reference to Christianity.

Yes, the US version of the Treaty of Tripoli differs from the Arabic version. However, it was the US version (which included the controversial Article 11) that President Adams approved and the Senate ratified. Therefore, it holds as US law.

And I'm afraid I can't find any information on the Treaty with Tunis. So if you could explain, please...

The treaty of tripoli is interesting. Every treaty that is made has to be in both languages of the countries that are in conflict with each other. The U.S. State Department said the following about the Barlow translation of the Treaty of Tripoli,

" . . . the Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic; and even as such its defects throughout are obvious and glaring. Most extraordinary (and wholly unexplained) is the fact that Article 11 of the Barlow translation, with its famous phrase, 'the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," does not exist at all. There is no Article 11. The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli."

So how can you use the Treaty of Tripoli as a basis that we shouldn't involve God and politics together?

Oh and by the way if you decide to use treaties as a base on which we interpret how to handle issues that involve God and politics then just look at the treaty of tunis (written 8 months after the treaty of tripoli). there is more I will explain if you ask.

Treaty of Tripoli.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Keep religion--all religion--out of politics. You'll be all the happier for doing so.

There is no place in the constitution that says that God and politics don't go together. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This statement was put into the constitution because our founding fathers saw what happened in England when there was religious persecution by the state established/sponsored church and wanted to make sure that no specific denomination of Christianity took over.

I could go on but I am tired.

quote:

Our founding fathers would be so ashamed of us today.

You're right. They'd be ashamed because we've allowed religion to influence our politics. That is why public prayer is frowned upon. But it's not illegal. You can pray all you want. Just don't push it on others. Do it quietly. Don't ask others to join you. But keep religion out of schools, out of politics, and out of the lives of people who don't care.

I was just wondering about that.

It use to be lawful for someone to stand on a street corner and bow his head in prayer and pray, but now it's unlawful for him to do that.
Cause it might offened someone.

How can someone praying offened another person? I mean if they don't want to pray or don't believe in praying then, they don't have to.
They can just walk away or wait until the persons done.
I pray out loud before I eat, if I'm at home or outside. I don't care. I'm not ashamed, let them take me to jail. Jesus isn't ashamed.

I just get sick of hearing that when something bad happens like 9/11 everyone all of a sudden turns to God and then tells everyone to pray and everything, but when it's all said and done they tell us it's wrong to pray and believe in God. No wonder this Nation is so mixed up.
That is the reason God does not bless us as a nation anymore.

Our founding fathers would be so ashamed of us today.

Well not everyone believes in God for one. Besides we don't know exactly how things started of in this world. My beliefs are that yes there is a God, but is not possible that God just put things on earth, and things just slowly evolved? That is my opinion. I just dont believe the stories in the bible.

It's simple, they don't have God in schools and public places like that because not everyone believes in God. Remember, America is suppose to be equal and liberal even though not everyone follows that but it's suppose to be like that. It is funny, when something bad happens, some people turn to God, but not everyoe is like that. Some people won't turn to God if life was good or bad.

Also, I remember times when God was put into school. I remember once having to pray to God in class, blah I hated that!!! God is pretty much everwhere, whether or not you want him to be.

Kicking would be good.

quote:

Originally posted by Greenleaf771:
Wouldn't it be hilarious if we all die, and presuming there is an afterlife, we all finally realise that God was the exact opposite of everything we ever thought it could be? I would laugh. Many people would not. Not the psycho-Christians. I don't reckon they would laugh.

Could we....could we kick them after that? Like..just constantly kick them?

quote:

Originally posted by Greenleaf771:
Wouldn't it be hilarious if we all die, and presuming there is an afterlife, we all finally realise that God was the exact opposite of everything we ever thought it could be? I would laugh. Many people would not. Not the psycho-Christians. I don't reckon they would laugh.

Heh. They'd probably accuse God of being "ungodly."

quote:

My long-time stance on this remains unchanged: first, show me proof that the Bible is truly the word of God. Second, show me the passage that says "God is a vengeful, egotistical pr*ck." Then I'll consider considering.

I chuckled. What a wierd word.

But what proof have we that any religion is true? Perhaps this God is not a "vengeful, egotistical pr*ck." It is my belief that there is only one higher being, but that it couldn't care less what happened down here. Maybe it checks in every once in a while, but it doesn't do anything. Wouldn't it be hilarious if we all die, and presuming there is an afterlife, we all finally realise that God was the exact opposite of everything we ever thought it could be? I would laugh. Many people would not. Not the psycho-Christians. I don't reckon they would laugh.

quote:

Originally posted by stopnvingme:
-schools/education- isn't it funny how school choose not to mention God or teach about him and reject him
yet when there's a tragedy or something bad is happening everyone is on their knees praying and asking him to protect them
and if something bad happens they ask where God was in all this
God wasn'y welcome at school... don't blame God for things that go bad if you're not gonna rejoice and praise him for the good he's done

My long-time stance on this remains unchanged: first, show me proof that the Bible is truly the word of God. Second, show me the passage that says "God is a vengeful, egotistical pr*ck." Then I'll consider considering.

My opinion:

God doesn't care what buildings he's welcome in or what soceities, as long as he's welcome in the individuals heart. If someone rejects him and refuses to believe in him, but suddenly they change their mind because they need him, then he would welcome them back and try his best to help them.

And when it comes to 'where was God when this happened?' I say, what about the Devil? Free will can't really be blamed for natural disasters like the Tsunami or the Hurricane, but neither can God, not really. He is all mighty and powerful, yes, but the Devil is working against him. I know, I sound weird now but hey, that's just my opinion, everyone's allowed their own opinions.

First off, how do you know he created everything? And "I just do" doesn't count as an answer.

Second, because I don't put faith in the metaphysical, I'm not likely to blame God nor praise him. If sh*t starts hitting the fan, I'm not going to blame God for it, and I definitely won't pray for protection. I can get more protection from my cat than I can from God.