For the record, I am not offended by any of you mocking God, As a Christian the Bible teaches us that we are not to be offended by others so that we can show them Christ's true nature. So go right on saying what you want and doing what you want, I believe that if God was offended by anything you say then He would do something about it. But God is not easily offended either.

Well, Nick, you have to admit that it was pretty obvious that what you said happened didn't......especially since we know your beliefs and all.

God usually only speaks to the ones who believe in him...or better yet, he speaks to all of us but only those who are willing to listen (those who believe in Him), hear it.

Of course we don't know for sure that these guys didn't just make all that stuff up. But we believe it through the faith of our religion. And the stuff about Jesus...well, we know he was a real guy for sure. That's fact laid down in history. But we believe he performed miracles with the help of God and that he was the Messiah through the undeniable faith that our religion teaches us.

I've never doubted God, His existence, or Jesus. If we don't have the Bible to follow, at least to a certain extent, then where is our religion? How does it exist? What do we follow?

We (Christians) have to have faith that these men were being truthful in their words in order to have any basis of religion at all. Does that make sense?

Well, you are right about one thing, I was trying to make a point. None of this actually happened, but there is no way to disprove that it didn't... Nor is there a way to prove that there is... I wasn't trying to get under Charlie's skin either... That would just be rude and immature. I was going about making a point...

But, worth, I don't understand a lot about this prophet, authors of the bible thing. I mean, you all just KNEW that god didn't speak to me, but how do you KNOW that god spoke to the writers of the bible. I'm sorry that I offended you, that was not my intent or purpose. My intent was to make a point... I'm still just lost at this... I guess it doesn't matter anyway, because most likely my beliefs won't change, nor yours, etc. And, I've lost my train of thought now, so I'll stop writing (don't you just hate when that happens??)

Nick, come on, we all know that you said all of that just because you wanted to get under Charlie's skin.

There's no doubt in my mind that God can talk to people but He doesn't do it physically, like me talking to you. He does it through action.

Your example was ludicrous. I know what you're getting at (Most Christians say that God physically spoke to these men, yadda, yadda, yadda) but to those of us (me) who understand what "God speaking" actually means, your post was offensive.

I don't think that I am mocking god.. I'd invite any of you to prove that god did not say those things to me... I don't see why you take the word of Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John above mine. It's obvious that god talked to all of us. Once, again, I resent that you would think otherwise...

Yea, I'd appreciate it if you didn't mock God too.

Guys, I would also appreciate it if you didn't mock God.

I understand you're trying to get your points across but remember...He is also my God too. It's offensive to any Christian, be it one like Charlie or me.

quote:

Also if your mocking God i would advise you not to do that.

Or what? Will lightning come out of the sky and strike me down if I mock God(TM)? Will I suddenly die on my chair for my sins? Heh. Doubtful.

I didnt say you were, I said IF you were, and im sorry if i have disrespected you my friend.
Also i just wanted to add that i think it takes more then just realizing that Jesus is the Savior to have your spot in heaven. But thats me.

quote:

and i do believe you misquoted John 3:16 Nick. If it was the KJV that you were trying to quote i will help you "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." and NIV goes " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." I would also encourage you to read the verses directly after John 3:16 . Also if your mocking God i would advise you not to do that.

Well, first off charlie, I don't think I misquoted anything because there are so many different versions of the bible out there today... and secondly, I was not mocking god, god really spoke to me... I resent that you think otherwise...

and i do believe you misquoted John 3:16 Nick. If it was the KJV that you were trying to quote i will help you "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." and NIV goes " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." I would also encourage you to read the verses directly after John 3:16 . Also if your mocking God i would advise you not to do that.

Amen nixy

quote:

You must look at this passage in its entirety. You specifically pick out 26 and 27 to prove your point but this is not the point of the passage in itself.

God was unhappy with these people because they choose to ignore everything He said and they continued and continued to commit many other sins, even though they knew His law. They blatantly disobeyed Him. The focus of these verses is not to condemn homosexuality but to condemn sinning against God in all aspects.

My argument is not that homosexuality being condemned is the passages main purpose. My argument is that this passage is condemning specific kinds of sin, it mentions them by name, and homosexuality is addressed as one of them. As you said, you have to look at this passage in it's entirety.

quote:

More than likely, you will point out that verses 26 and 27 prove that homosexuality is unnatural. So I will go ahead and address this issue. Of course, in ancient times when the Bible was written, the natural use of woman would have been to pro-create. The population of societies in this time was much less than it is today - even if you just look in the United States. That is a commonly known fact. With populations being still inadequate, the purpose of woman to pro-create would continue on until we finally realize in the 20th century (perhaps before then, I have not yet taken U.S. History) that the world is full enough. We can have jobs and work etc. etc.

This "natural use" has now become just something people like to do - have families. It makes sense that something homosexuality would have been forbidden in times of patriarchal society and needed pro-creation. But now that we have evolved as far as being overpopulated and into a severely less patriarchal society, laws such as these are not needed and homosexuality - through the use of science - has been proven to be just as natural as heterosexuality.

As for this, I would bring to memory that in the beginning of creation God gave a command, he said "Be fruitful and multiply." He never said stop, and if you are in a relationship that cannot procreate then you are unable to fulfill the will of God for the relationship, as for the earth being overpopulated, it is not. That is a myth worked up by I don't know who, I live in Texas, there is so much space in Texas it's insane, there is way to much unused earth on earth to say that we are overpopulated.

quote:

I still stand on the grounds that this verse condemns blatantly sinning against God and not homosexuality in itself.

Now I have one more thing to say, I researched these verses in the greek, and more than just saying that they left natural affections, it says that they went against nature itself. You might say that that is one and the same thing but I think it is slightly different. It is a much stronger statement than the former.

Oh, and don't think by any means that my whole argument is based off of only these verses, I simply started my argument here for a good foundation.

I put them on for everyone who doesnt think that scripture can be taken literally or even used at all, for the simple reason that men had freewill while God used them to write the Bible. You underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit and what a person who is completely surrendered to God and gives up the right of himself to God, can do.

nixy: who are these verses directed at and what is the point of posting them?

Oh, my goodness guys. I just had a moment of revlation! Jesus IS the savior and now, my spot in heaven is reserved! What led to this, you might ask? God spoke to me. Now, I realize that I got involved in YN for THIS moment, for THIS thread... God spoke to me. So this is directly from God, God to your eyes, "Stop killing trees! Oh, and while your at it, Nick, try to get equal rights for everyone. I promise that I will support you in your political campaignes. Yep, that's right, that Bush guy told a lie about me... But, he'll pay, and in only 8 months..." I know it sounds weird, but that's TOTALLY what He just said. Praise the Lord!

John 3:16 "God so loved the world, he sent his only begotten son, that whomever believes shall never die, but have eternal life." -NickJ

Just a question of curiousity: How do you know that the Bible is true?

2 Peter 1:20-21"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the Prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

Until this Christian God shows some proof as to his existence (as allegedly happened frequently in the Old and New Testaments), I won't believe he's active in our lives.

1 Thessalonians 2:13" And we thank God continually because, when you recieved the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.