Ok I would like to say that since the begginnng of whatever started, there has been debate ont he subect of wether to belive or not. Christians yelling at Atheists ans Atheists yellina at Christians.
No matter how hard you work to make someone belive in your religon it WILL NOT WORK. They have their religon and you have yours. That is all there is to it. No one is ever, ever going to win this battle. EVER.

Most Atheists respect the Christians and don't go around trying to spread the religon of nothing. But Most Christians are everytwhere trying to spread the religon of Christianity tellin people you are going to hell for not beliving. Well that isnt so nice now is it? Leave each other alone Please. I'm sick of seeing debates on this issue. NO ONE IS GOING TO WIN. This battle has been going on through ages.

Why can't you respect peoples desicion to belive what they want to belive and you belive what you want. Why? This is a rhetorical question but you can discuss ithere if you wnat. I have said what I wanted to say.

No offense taken, Brehon, although I don't quite understand the bit about the mark of a beast. Why would I have one more than another, unless it's because of my avid denial of Jesus' message? For the record, I'm six foot one with blue eyes, dark blond hair, and a rather slight build. And as far as I can tell, I have no unusual marks on my body, unless one is hidden by my hair.

Sorry, sorry. I din't mean to be Christian bashing, just a bad time. The phrase "He created you, me, and everything you have ever known, whether you like it or not." got my back up a little. Just a tad. I apologise for dragging your post in, by the way, clpo. Sorry.

Not only that clpo13, but he was human enough to understand what metaphors would cause us to pity him, in this case that he would give his only son. And clpo, could you just describe your appearance, just to clear up a point? Do you have, anywhere on you, a mark that might be 'the mark of the beast'? Is it just possible that God, being all powerful, could have more children? And why, if he is just a symbol of an omnipotent, omnipresent being does he even have a son? And besides, doesn't God give you a choice to repent when you reach the pearly gates? Notafraidtospeak, I think you're a little off point, and besides, what use is eternal life? You get eternal life if you don't beleive in him, it is just an eternally punished life. A little harsh for what might only be 10 or twenty years life, don't you think?

Ah, the age-old fallacy of using a human-created book as proof. You've got to do better than that. As I have always said, if God wants me to worship him, he'd better tell me that himself. Not through some book, which may or may not be true. I could just as easily start quoting the Qu'ran to you and claiming that it's all true. But of course, you'd deny it all. Just as I'm denying Christianity. No proof, no belief. It's that simple.

I would to point out that you are wrong. In the end, someone WILL win the battle. God will. In other words, Christianity. God is all-powerful. He created you, me, and everything you have ever known, whether you like it or not. The reason Christians wont leave you alone is because we want you to know the truth. God doesn't want you to go to Hell, and neither do we. But did you ever stop to think that God did indeed give you a choice? Yup, He did. He gave you the choice between Heaven and Hell. Between Good and Evil. Between a life of following God or a life of following Satan. There is not inbetween. If you do not follow God, you are following Satan, whether you know it or not.
Satan wants you to go to Hell. He wants you to suffer an eternity of horror by not believing and trusting in God. God doesn't want you to go to Hell, though, because He loves you more than you can fathom. That's why He sent His son, Jesus, to die for you. To die for the world. Grab a Bible, and look up John 3:16. It's a good verse.
"For God so loved the world, He gave his only begotton son, that whosoever believes in Him shall never die but have eternal life."
Can you even imagine how hard that must have been? I mean, God sent His ONLY SON to earth so He could suffer through death because us humans were being sinful idiots. He paid for our mistakes, but instead of thanking Him, we try and prove Him wrong.

What if I told you I believed something started the Big Bang but I don't believe in God?

This is only going to end up a battle of beliefs. Neither of us is going to change the other. Although you might do well by taking a physics or chemistry class. Those would best answer at least some of your questions.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
What if Joe Schmo doesn't want to go to heaven? Then what? He'll just be ticked off at you trying to drag him into something he doesn't want. Not everyone wants to be Christian, that's why people get annoyed at preaching. If they wanted to be Christian, they'd have already converted. They don't want your help. I hope that clarifies the matter.

Also, just so you know, evolution isn't a belief. Beliefs are based on faith, and faith results from not knowing. Evolution is founded on facts. Facts and evidence. That's more than any Christian can give for creationism.

the Bible is reliable the "facts" you are talking about are the same people who seid there was no begining to space, it had always existed however threw advances in technology they soon came to realize and the Christian Bible was telling the truth there WAS a begining and they developed the big bang theory which took place in a matter off minutes blowing this universe in to existence, that is as of right now the "fact" but now this next part is just a question if an explosion is a reaction what was the action that started it and why is the universe still accelerating shouldn't it slow down because of gravity or stay at the same speed? and how do molecules and adoms stay together if a positive and positive charge repel eachother (witch by the way is the reason you can't put your hand threw a wall)

What if Joe Schmo doesn't want to go to heaven? Then what? He'll just be ticked off at you trying to drag him into something he doesn't want. Not everyone wants to be Christian, that's why people get annoyed at preaching. If they wanted to be Christian, they'd have already converted. They don't want your help. I hope that clarifies the matter.

Also, just so you know, evolution isn't a belief. Beliefs are based on faith, and faith results from not knowing. Evolution is founded on facts. Facts and evidence. That's more than any Christian can give for creationism.

quote:

Originally posted by DepressedSoul:
Ok I would like to say that since the begginnng of whatever started, there has been debate ont he subect of wether to belive or not. Christians yelling at Atheists ans Atheists yellina at Christians.
No matter how hard you work to make someone belive in your religon it WILL NOT WORK. They have their religon and you have yours. That is all there is to it. No one is ever, ever going to win this battle. EVER.

Most Atheists respect the Christians and don't go around trying to spread the religon of nothing. But Most Christians are everytwhere trying to spread the religon of Christianity tellin people you are going to hell for not beliving. Well that isnt so nice now is it? Leave each other alone Please. I'm sick of seeing debates on this issue. NO ONE IS GOING TO WIN. This battle has been going on through ages.

Why can't you respect peoples desicion to belive what they want to belive and you belive what you want. Why? This is a rhetorical question but you can discuss ithere if you wnat. I have said what I wanted to say.

they do teach evelution and that every thing happened by chance that is what they believe and it is tought in every school so don't tell me they don't spead "the reliogon of nothing" as you so eliquently put it

christians want you to come to heaven with us thats why we preach, what would it say about us if we didn't, that we saved our own asses then seid F' u the the rest of the world?, and just to clear this up the reason jews don't try to convert people is becuase they beleive God choose them as "his people" and every one else is going to hell becuase they aren't jewish, and muslim countrys are a billion times more intolerent then christians, just so u know they kill all the homosexuals in their country look at they're population persentege its somthing like 98-99 persent in every muslim country.. now look at western countrys we have between 50 and 80 persent christian what does that say about our tolerence?

so heres a question why do you have to fight off all the christians when we just want to help your so defencive about making sure "God" isn't in school if your so sure he's not there and that we're wrong won't just teaching both sides be ok becuase 1 it doesn't affect you if i believe or not and 2 the facts will lead kids to believe evelution took place, or are you scared we MIGHT be right

i'm not asking you to stop saying what you believe i'm just saying let us say what we beleive just as loud as your saying your side

Hmmm...you should write that in the YN Parenting thread. You know, teach your newbie how to spell correctly or the proper punctuation. Speaking of newbies, what ever happened to that thread dedicated to newbies telling them how to behave if they want to survive in YN?

I've done a lot of editting of bad fiction from the writers that I proofread for. It's the last straw pretty much. I've written about three hundred different grammar explanations already today of how to use simple things like commas and quotation marks. So, poor little newbies who don't know about the attack of the Grammar Nazis yet get my wrath today.

Relax Hub, is something the matter today?

Sorry poor little newbie, you've caught me on the wrong day.

IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, YOU MAY ONLY USE THREE PERIODS IN A ROW. Never, is it acceptable to use more than three periods in a row. Why is this concept so stinking hard?

(I'm referring to the topic title.)

I think people just need to talk...
...not argue or debate or prove wrong or anything like that. All of that stuff is done with hate and a desire to be better than someone else. Just talk, like people.
DepressedSoul, keep in mind that there a lot of people who say they are Christian but don't know the first thing about God. Please, don't give up on God because people can be jerks at times. The basis of Christianity is that we all sin - do things that we know are wrong - and because of that we've separated ourselves from God. But God wants to be with us so much that He was willing to die so that the problem of sin would be solved. Another important thing to remember - Christians are no more "moral" and "good" than other people. Every human being is a sinner. It's just that Christians have come to God and asked for forgiveness, and started over with Him.
A lot of "Christians" do seem like they don't respect other people's beliefs. I think that when you have people denouncing you and telling you you're going to hell it's because they are angry and proud. They are either not really Christian (don't have a relationship with God) or they are immature Christians and have a lot of spiritual growing to do. So don't listen to them. It's not even that they don't respect your beliefs, it's that they don't respect you. I don't respect your beliefs - I think they're wrong and unworthy of respect. But I respect you, and I think you should be treated with love and kindness, regardless of what you believe.

quote:

However, atheists and agnostics are completely different. Several have told my Christian friends and I very hurtful things and stressed that God does not exist to the power of which many Christians stress that He does. The original post discusses how much atheists get crap from Christians but I gotta tell you...I've gotten plenty of crap from atheists.

Give and get. Get and give. Only you can break the chain by taking it and not giving it.

And there is a difference between discussion of science, philosophy, and religion for atheists and convertmogering.

quote:

Atheists have no right to tell anyone what to believe, considering they try as hard as they can not to believe in anything. I agree with you there, and I'm sorry I didn't cover it in my post.

It is no more or less the right of an atheist to tell anyone what to believe in. It is nobody's right, regardless what they believe. But I myself take pure exception to Catholics telling of the compassion of christ when their church burned and killed throughout the middle ages.

Atheists have no right to tell anyone what to believe, considering they try as hard as they can not to believe in anything. I agree with you there, and I'm sorry I didn't cover it in my post.

quote:

Both you and Eutrepe (the point I refrained from making earlier) explained the why but I just feel like the "why" doesn't justify it.

It's not justified. No one can tell you what to believe, aside from yourself. I understand what point you're trying to make, that people shouldn't base their opinions of Christianity on the un-Christian and very outspoken individuals in the group, but that's all some people encounter, since the good Christians--like yourself--don't preach to anyone in the general vicinity. Of course that's not right, but nobody's perfect. Somebody will always hate somebody else for all the wrong reasons.

quote:

When was the last time a Jew came up to you and shoved a Torah in your face? How many Muslims do you see preaching on street corners? Where are all the Buddhist gatherings and Hindu aid organizations? Like it or not, Christianity is the unofficial face of religion for the unchurched. And it's not an especially pretty face.

I was mostly talking about atheists (since that is what the author of the post was discussing) but I mentioned the other religions in one of my posts because those are the major ones of the world. I admit that I can't answer your questions but when there are so many more people in my religion, things of the other religions will be overshadowed (which is the point both Eutrepe and you have made quite clear - see, I understand that but...well, I'll get to that later in the post).

However, atheists and agnostics are completely different. Several have told my Christian friends and I very hurtful things and stressed that God does not exist to the power of which many Christians stress that He does. The original post discusses how much atheists get crap from Christians but I gotta tell you...I've gotten plenty of crap from atheists.

quote:

Can't hurt to hear it again. Besides, I can't read minds. As far as I know, Worth still thinks everyone's got a personal vendetta against Christianity.

Dude, your post doesn't disprove that people have a personal vendetta against Christianity. It just explains why they do. I still think that people have a personal vendetta against Christianity. Both you and Eutrepe (the point I refrained from making earlier) explained the why but I just feel like the "why" doesn't justify it. I have known the "why" I just don't understand how people can justify giving Christians a hard time as if they don't have people aggravating them enough for what they believe in. You guys get mad at Christians for things they say because they go against what you believe...but when you get mad at us, you're basically doing the same thing back to us - telling us that what we believe is wrong. Let me give you a non-religious example (that I'm not entirely sure will work).

Homosexual males are often characterized or stereotyped based on aspects that a majority of them share and an aspect that is portrayed in the media: They have good fashion sense, speak in a higher-pitched more girlish voice, and walk with a swing in their hips. That's the way we as a society see them. But are all homosexual males like this? Should we characterize all homosexual males like this and then say mean comments about homosexual males as a whole when this is just what we see as the majority?

It's the same as with Christianity. People develop a personal vendetta against Christianity because of the media and other things that promote us (even our "own kind") in a poor light. But should they? Does that justify it? I really don't think so.

quote:

Not strictly true Worth, there is also Orthadox (Greek and Russian), the Arminian (sp?) Church and so on.

Also I appologize for mistaking your intent earlier, "..and I wasn't even talking to you but to the author of the original post."

I knew about Greek Orthodox (a friend of mine recently converted) but not the others and I was unaware that any of them was separate from Protestant Christianity or Catholic Christianity.

And don't worry about the other thing. I was just sorta irritated and snapped at you. No worries.

quote:

I really have nothing to argue with about the content of your post but I wanted to point something out to you. It doesn't "cover every religion inside of it" and there is no "etc." after Catholicism and Protestants. Christianity is made up of Catholics and Protestants.

Not strictly true Worth, there is also Orthadox (Greek and Russian), the Arminian (sp?) Church and so on.

Also I appologize for mistaking your intent earlier, "..and I wasn't even talking to you but to the author of the original post."