quote:

Originally posted by bauhaus:

quote:

Why do you need an archeological find? It's called FAITH!

Maybe you should put a little faith in science. Once you figure out why you don't believe in other gods, you'll know why I dont believe in yours.

I don't believe in other Gods, because of the Spirit confirming the reality of my God. I believe in science. I have nothing against science. I don't particularly care for the study as it doesn't interest me, but my brother is a bio-chemical engineer, my sister is a biologist, my mother's a civil engineer, and my dad and my brother are electrical engineers. (My brother's both. Don't ask how they fit together. I don't know). They are just as strong in Mormonism as I am.

My church embraces science. In fact, our colleges teaches science. My sister studies at our College, and they teach evolution there. Not from apes, but they do teach evolution.

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Why do you need an archeological find? It's called FAITH!

Maybe you should put a little faith in science. Once you figure out why you don't believe in other gods, you'll know why I dont believe in yours.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:

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There weren't two witnesses. There were three that saw the sword of Laban, the Golden Plates, and other objects of religious significance. There were eight others who only saw the Golden Plates.

This is the question that I could not remember whether it was 2 or 3 witnesses, but I checked, and because of what you said, there were 3 witnesses.

The three witnesses later left the church, and John Smith later wrote very fierce articles denouncing the 3 of them.

No. Martin Harris was true to the Mormon Church until the day they died. Although there was a time that Martin Harris left the church and was excommunicated December 1837, he was re-baptized November 7, 1842. David Whitmer left the church, but he was never officially excommunicated, and he never denounced his testimony of the Church. Quite the contrary, he continued to preach of the church until he died. Oliver Cowdery, though was one of the original members, did leave the church, and spread lies about the Church, he never denounced his testimony.

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Originally posted by BoMoWo:

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The Book of Mormon has never, ever changed. I would swear that on the Golden Plates.

John 5:34-36 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Be careful what you believe to be true, watch this now:

Priesthood was originally reserved for white skinned Mormons. In 1978 a new revelation opened the priesthoods to dark skinned Mormons.

also, about 4000 changes in grammar spelling and contradictions have been documented in the book of Mormon since 1830.

If you can find the original manuscripts, or whatever they are called, and compare them to the book of mormon that Mormons use now, they are extremely different from each other.

I regret to say that I don't have more info on this particular statement, but I will on thursday.

That "swear on the Golden Plates" was all cultural. I don't swear.

The actual Book of Mormon has never changed. There have been additional revelations, but the Book of Mormon has not changed. They are added on at the end.

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Originally posted by BoMoWo:

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The Book of Mormon was not "plagiarized." Joseph Smith didn't write it anyways. He translated it.

Officialy, the book of Mormon was translated by John Smith, you are correct in that, but he also hid behind a curtain to translate it so that no one could see clearly.

He also said that the language he was translating from was "Reformed Egyptian Hieryoglyphics" a language that no non-Mormon scholars believe to actually have existed.

Actually, many linguists not connected to the LDS church have confirmed that the language is a language.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
I mistated a few things, I tried to state them from memory, but I mispoke on one of them.

Let me debate some and state again the facts.

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Why do you need an archeological find? It's called FAITH!

Watch what it says here in the book of James

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Without evidence, Faith is dead.

That verse means that without exercising your faith, your faith is dead. You've mis-interpretted that verse.

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Originally posted by BoMoWo:

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I am a women. I'm a Mormon. There are no biases towards women. Your support for that is entirely bogus. In fact, a woman can receive salvation even if her husband does not. Their husband does not have to grant them rights into heaven.

How? I want facts not theory, so give me references.

2 Nephi 2:4

And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.

Mosiah 15:8
And behold, I say unto you, this is not all. For O how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that is the founder of peace, yea, even the Lord, who has redeemed his people; yea, him who has granted salvation unto his people;

Those are just some quick ones I have. Salvation is for everybody. Where'd you find that women couldn't receive salvation unless their husbands said they could?

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:

Priesthood was originally reserved for white skinned Mormons. In 1978 a new revelation opened the priesthoods to dark skinned Mormons.

I admit that it is true that the priesthood was reserved for white males until 1978. I've known that since I've been five. I don't know why that is, but God does.

I mistated a few things, I tried to state them from memory, but I mispoke on one of them.

Let me debate some and state again the facts.

quote:

Why do you need an archeological find? It's called FAITH!

Watch what it says here in the book of James

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Without evidence, Faith is dead.

quote:

The Book of Mormon was not "plagiarized." Joseph Smith didn't write it anyways. He translated it.

Officialy, the book of Mormon was translated by John Smith, you are correct in that, but he also hid behind a curtain to translate it so that no one could see clearly.

He also said that the language he was translating from was "Reformed Egyptian Hieryoglyphics" a language that no non-Mormon scholars believe to actually have existed.

quote:

The Book of Mormon has never, ever changed. I would swear that on the Golden Plates.

John 5:34-36 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Be careful what you believe to be true, watch this now:

Priesthood was originally reserved for white skinned Mormons. In 1978 a new revelation opened the priesthoods to dark skinned Mormons.

also, about 4000 changes in grammar spelling and contradictions have been documented in the book of Mormon since 1830.

If you can find the original manuscripts, or whatever they are called, and compare them to the book of mormon that Mormons use now, they are extremely different from each other.

I regret to say that I don't have more info on this particular statement, but I will on thursday.

quote:

There weren't two witnesses. There were three that saw the sword of Laban, the Golden Plates, and other objects of religious significance. There were eight others who only saw the Golden Plates.

This is the question that I could not remember whether it was 2 or 3 witnesses, but I checked, and because of what you said, there were 3 witnesses.

The three witnesses later left the church, and John Smith later wrote very fierce articles denouncing the 3 of them.

quote:

I am a women. I'm a Mormon. There are no biases towards women. Your support for that is entirely bogus. In fact, a woman can receive salvation even if her husband does not. Their husband does not have to grant them rights into heaven.

How? I want facts not theory, so give me references.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
I am surprised, slightly to find myself agreeing with bauhaus on something, but anyways.


I will give some evidence for why Mormonism is a false religion, here it goes:

1. They have never made an archeological find to support anything that they believe.

2. The book of Mormon was "plagiarized" or stolen from more than one other author.

3. More than one time that the book of Mormon has met with resistance over what it says, it has been changed so as not to upset anyone further.

4. The two witnesses who clamed to have seen the golden tablets later admitted to only having seen them through the "eyes of faith". John Smith later denounced the two men.

5. Uncommon to popular knowledge, the Mormon religion is extremley biased towards women. Their only hope of salvation is for their husband to grant them rights into heaven once he dies.

There are 5 reasons not to believe Mormonism is true. If you need more or want to debate them, feel free.

Why do you need an archeological find? It's called FAITH!

The Book of Mormon was not "plagiarized." Joseph Smith didn't write it anyways. He translated it.

The Book of Mormon has never, ever changed. I would swear that on the Golden Plates.

There weren't two witnesses. There were three that saw the sword of Laban, the Golden Plates, and other objects of religious significance. There were eight others who only saw the Golden Plates.

I am a women. I'm a Mormon. There are no biases towards women. Your support for that is entirely bogus. In fact, a woman can receive salvation even if her husband does not. Their husband does not have to grant them rights into heaven.

I am surprised, slightly to find myself agreeing with bauhaus on something, but anyways.


I will give some evidence for why Mormonism is a false religion, here it goes:

1. They have never made an archeological find to support anything that they believe.

2. The book of Mormon was "plagiarized" or stolen from more than one other author.

3. More than one time that the book of Mormon has met with resistance over what it says, it has been changed so as not to upset anyone further.

4. The two witnesses who clamed to have seen the golden tablets later admitted to only having seen them through the "eyes of faith". John Smith later denounced the two men.

5. Uncommon to popular knowledge, the Mormon religion is extremley biased towards women. Their only hope of salvation is for their husband to grant them rights into heaven once he dies.

There are 5 reasons not to believe Mormonism is true. If you need more or want to debate them, feel free.

quote:

Originally posted by bauhaus:

quote:

Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
That isn't plagiarism. The Book of Mormon is supposed to go hand in hand with the Bible. I could spend all day refuting all those accusations. As far as I have read, there is a perfectly logical amiguous explanation for them.

do you believe in gravity?

What has that to do with anything?

quote:

Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
That isn't plagiarism. The Book of Mormon is supposed to go hand in hand with the Bible. I could spend all day refuting all those accusations. As far as I have read, there is a perfectly logical amiguous explanation for them.

do you believe in gravity?

That isn't plagiarism. The Book of Mormon is supposed to go hand in hand with the Bible. I could spend all day refuting all those accusations. As far as I have read, there is a perfectly logical amiguous explanation for them.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by bauhaus:
they should be sued for plagiarism.

bauhaus, would you care to elaborate? Nobody is defending their accusations to my religion. How on earth am I to respond?

Hmm...

they should be sued for plagiarism.

I am a Mormon. End of story.

Jenos, may I ask why it's a farce? Why do you dislike us?

Do you really want to ?