Considering I am one, I know everything about it what do you want to know? Ok now that I read more of the page, the other Mormons got it down pretty good. But seriously on a different note we are nicknamed "mormons" but we are "The Church of Jesus Christ and The Latter Day Saints". AKA LDS

I would like to help out some of the people who are standing up for mormons.

In response to comments about be married in heaven and having children there: in D&C (i just frgot what section)it says that those who don't marry in the temple will minister unto those that did as angels. They will live as singles and not have children or live with their family. Those that did marry in the temple and lived worthily, will live together as husband & wife and have children in heaven and live as a family.

look i'm mormon. Jenos, why do think mormonism is a farce.

plz elaborate on your way of thinking, as long as it is you who have thought these things and it is not a feeling handed down from your family.

quote:

Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
You're wrong, mgrocki. LDS scholars, and non-LDS scholars have said that the Book of Abraham scrolls (which by the way were taken up into heaven, so no new information is coming out of them) are true scrolls.

hubbabaloo, are you trying to twist my words or something? Yes, the "Book of Abraham" scrolls physically exist, and apparently they're in the possession of the LDS church. BUT, THE ACTUAL HEIROGLYPHIC TRANSLATION OF THE SCROLLS IS NOT THE TEXT OF "THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM". IT IS PAGAN FUNERAL DOCUMENTS. The LDS church knows this. Even if Smith somehow felt a "revelation" from God through the scrolls, why would God use pagan documents as a means to communicate? People were gullible back then because no one knew how to translate heiroglyphics and the Rosetta Stone was still being studied. Only after the Stone's secrets were unlocked were the scrolls found to be nothing of what Smith said they were.

Also, there's more truth to the Bible from an archeological point of view than the BoM could ever have. Christians belive the Bible is the truth, and if Mormons are Christians, like the say they are, and the Bible is scripture to them, then isn't the Book of Mormon a contradiction?

Can you tell me why there are no crosses at Mormon temples? Why does a Christian sect not use the symbol of Christianity?

hubbabaloo, please refer to these documents with an open mind:

http://www.irr.org/mit/Lamanites-DNA-Book-of-Mormon.html

http://www.irr.org/mit/Books/BHOH/bhoh1.html

quote:

I really would like to know why Mormons can completely ignore that verse of the Bible which says that Mormonism is wrong.

This is, of course, assuming the Bible is correct, which still hasn't been determined.

By the way, hubbabaloo, believing in some conveniently non-existent scrolls takes quite a bit of faith.

You're wrong, mgrocki. LDS scholars, and non-LDS scholars have said that the Book of Abraham scrolls (which by the way were taken up into heaven, so no new information is coming out of them) are true scrolls.

quote:

Originally posted by hubbabaloo:

Now, if we go to The Pearl of Great Price...something else that Joseph Smith translation, some papyrus from Egypt that know linguist could translate, The book of Abraham and the book of Moses, Moses 3:22-23[b]Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of thenoble and great ones;

Just for starters. I just am using that as an example.

The Book of Abraham scrolls have been identified by Egyptologists to be nothing more than common Egyptian burial documents that have no mention of Abraham. Where are you getting your information that "know linguist" could translate them? Even LDS scholars think it's fake!

http://www.irr.org/mit/Books/BHOH/bhohintr.html

A very good point BoMoWo, I knew I read that verse somewhere, but I was not going to bring it up unless I could remember the verse, which I could not.

You sound almost like you believe that Jesus Christ is God, is that correct?

By the way, why is it that you say that the book of Mormon is another testament of Christ, what proof do you have?

It is my understanding that the book of Mormon came from the angel Moroni, yet the Bible clearly says:

Galatians 1:8-10

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


I really would like to know why Mormons can completely ignore that verse of the Bible which says that Mormonism is wrong.

I am LDS (a "Mormon"). I will share with you a shortened abridged verison to the best of my ability of what we believe. First off, we bleive that the book of Mormon is another testiment of christ. We also read the Old and New testiment (king James verison.) This is about the people in South America. By the way, to answer someone's question: The reason why the bible doesn't mention the three degrees of heaven is because it's not as detailed as the book of mormon. Also, in the bible, so concepts are more difficult to understand because of the general way it was translated and written. If you want to see what I wrote on the three degrees of heaven see the "what will happen to you after death" topic. I think the main thing that separates us from other christian churches is the fact that we believe to have all the pieces of the gospel of God. Other christian beliefs have bits and pieces of truth but not the whole puzzle put together. The Lord has prepared a way for all of us to return back to him. You can only go so far in other good religions. We believe that the preisthood was restored on the earth again, and a prophet of the Lord. He recieves revelations for the world today. I want you to know that I believe in God the enternal Father with all my heart. I know that Jesus suffered and died for us on the cross and in the garden when he bled from every pore. I know that that because he atoned for my sins, my sins can be washed away if I repent with a sincere heart unto the Lord. You need to have faith in every footstep, even if you can't see anything but darkness in front of you. If you hold on to the Lords rod (the gospel and commandments) you will soon walk out of the fog and will see Christ with open arms ready to embrace the one he suffered for. He suffered for all of us. He suffered for you. Every sin you ever commited. I want you to know that there is a way back to Heavenly Father. All of us make mistakes, but we can repent if we use the gift that Jesus gave us. If you don't use the atonment he died for, it's like recieving the most wonderful present, but never opening it. Don't think that it's too good for you. That is Satan speaking. I know that this gospel was restored on the earth today, his full and everlasting gospel. So, after that novel, that is what mormons believe in a nutshell. A very small nutshell.

quote:

Jeremiah was chosen. He was one of those chosen rulers that are spoken of. There are other connections that are so good, that I think say that the Pearl of Great Price is legitimate, which is where a lot of the Premortal Existance is revealed.

It does not say that he was chosen to be a ruler of the nations, it says he was ordained(annointed)to be a prophet to the nations. A ruler and a prophet are to very different things.

quote:

Moses 3:22-23Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of thenoble and great ones;

And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

It says here that he chose the great ones, yet in the scriptures it says that His call for those that he wanted to be in the kingdom He went first to the great and noble people but that they would have nothing to do with Him. So he went to the highways and byways, the streets and found the poor, the blind, the wretched, and those were who He made apart of His kingdom.

quote:

Exaltation is the order of gaining our own kingdoms and worlds, and forming our own spirit children. It's the highest reward that God can offer.

Do you form these babies on your own, or are you married in heaven, because Jesus Himself said that no one would be married in heaven:

Matthew 22:23-30
23The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27And last of all the woman died also.

28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

So If what your saying means that people are married in the afterlife, it is in direct contradiction to what Jesus Himself said.

quote:

But there isn't anything that would make it contradictory is there? I'll search my Bible for some things, but I can't think of any verses right now. It doesn't have to be in the Bible. It just can't contradict the Bible.

For one thing the Bible only talks about one heaven, it is in Revelation, and Jeremiah I believe, but it only talks about one heaven, So for anything else to talk about three heavens I would be extremely hesitant to even consider it as a possibility, because it doesn't line up with what the Bible says close enough to say they are the same doctrine.

The Bible says that the lost will be cast into the lake of fire, not that they will go to spirit prison.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

At what point does the judgement that revelation talks about kick in? How many chances do the spirit prison people have before the word of God is complete. The fact is, is that there is one chance and that is while you are here on earth, if that was not the way it was then Christ would have had no reason to die, He could simply wait for everyone to die and then say "hey guys I'm God, believe in me or you will go to hell" But that isn't how He did it, He sacrificed Himself because there was no other way to come into God's kingdom.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:

quote:

How many times do I have to say this? The Book of Mormon doesn't say that Salvation comes from works. Getting into Heaven, and Salvation are two different things. Salvation comes as a free gift, because of what Christ did. Accepting that (and people who don't in life, will in get another chance in the Spirit World) is faith. Thus, by faith we are saved.

Hebrews 9:27 For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

There are no second chances.

Yes there are. I believe in judgement. However, it doesn't say when after. Directly after? It doesn't say. It also doesn't say how thorough.

Mormons believe that there is the partial judgement, and that's what judges you to go to Spirit Prison or Paradise. And in Spirit Prison, you have a chance to accept the principles. Yes, you won't receive the same rewards as those who accepted them on earth, but you will get better than you had before.

Then there's full judgement, which judges which kingdom.

quote:

How many times do I have to say this? The Book of Mormon doesn't say that Salvation comes from works. Getting into Heaven, and Salvation are two different things. Salvation comes as a free gift, because of what Christ did. Accepting that (and people who don't in life, will in get another chance in the Spirit World) is faith. Thus, by faith we are saved.

Hebrews 9:27 For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

There are no second chances.

quote:

Originally posted by SCxNothingxBetter:

Another question. In Revelation 8 it talks about a third of all these specific things being destroyed. Does this have anything to do with what you said earlier about 1/3 choosing Lucifer? And that is the reason 1/3 of these things will be destroyed?

Personally, I think that there could be a connection, but there isn't any official stance on that given by the Prophet of our Churches, but from my mouth, I think that there is a connection. Why it's a third and such. But it isn't Mormon doctrince. Just a personal thought. BoMoWo answered the other question.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
James was not saying that faith is not enough, he was attempting to make us realize that Faith is the very act of being transformed into Christ's image, he was saying that the change in who you are is the proof that you have faith.

I agree with you about Christians who just say "I believe, I believe," There is far more than just believing that makes us Christians. James was addressing these very people in an attempt to stir their minds to action and their hearts to repentance. Not to achieve a greater gloryin heaven.

We're agreed on that then.

quote:

Matthew 20:25-28
25Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
26Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27and whoever wants to be first must be your slave,
28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

It is very clear by this passage that there is a greater reward for the people who become like Christ and learn to offer to others of themselves.

However in the Bible there are no passages that talk about multiple heavens, there are no passages that talk about the placement of anyone in heaven except for Jesus being at the right hand of the Father.

But there isn't anything that would make it contradictory is there? I'll search my Bible for some things, but I can't think of any verses right now. It doesn't have to be in the Bible. It just can't contradict the Bible.

quote:

Originally posted by BoMoWo:
There are a few things I would like to discuss about the three heavens and the topic of works.

quote:

There's also faith without works is dead. Works doesn't mean proof in this case. Faith is a wonderful, beautiful thing that is irreplaceable, and will keep you from Hell ultimately, but you cannot enter into the highest degree of glory without partaking of the eternal covenants. Faith is just the first step to exaltation.

Matthew 20:25-28
25Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
26Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27and whoever wants to be first must be your slave,
28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

It is very clear by this passage that there is a greater reward for the people who become like Christ and learn to offer to others of themselves.

However in the Bible there are no passages that talk about multiple heavens, there are no passages that talk about the placement of anyone in heaven except for Jesus being at the right hand of the Father.

quote:

James is one of my favorite books as well. Especially James 1:5, the verse that started the entire Mormon religion. Yes, James was discussing justification. I'm saying just what James was saying. Faith alone is not enough. It's a start, but I hate it when Christians say, "But I'm a Christian. I'm saved." There's more to it than believing in Christ, darling.

James was not saying that faith is not enough, he was attempting to make us realize that Faith is the very act of being transformed into Christ's image, he was saying that the change in who you are is the proof that you have faith.

I agree with you about Christians who just say "I believe, I believe," There is far more than just believing that makes us Christians. James was addressing these very people in an attempt to stir their minds to action and their hearts to repentance. Not to achieve a greater gloryin heaven.

quote:

but you cannot enter into the highest degree of glory without partaking of the eternal covenants. Faith is just the first step to exaltation.

What are the eternal covenants?

What do you mean by exaltation?

Again let me say that no matter how deep you go or how blunt you make things I do not get offended by them, but rather it is the way I prefer them. So I would like to hear your explanation that you mentioned.

Exaltation is the order of gaining our own kingdoms and worlds, and forming our own spirit children. It's the highest reward that God can offer.

Eternal Covenants, are a lot of things. Sealed marriages, baptisms, and endowments are the largest ones that come to mind.

For the long strand. If you look at Jeremiah 1:5, as I listed in an earlier post, but didn't go into detail, it says, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Now, if we go to The Pearl of Great Price...something else that Joseph Smith translation, some papyrus from Egypt that know linguist could translate, The book of Abraham and the book of Moses, Moses 3:22-23Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of thenoble and great ones;

And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

Jeremiah was chosen. He was one of those chosen rulers that are spoken of. There are other connections that are so good, that I think say that the Pearl of Great Price is legitimate, which is where a lot of the Premortal Existance is revealed.

Just for starters. I just am using that as an example.