The Synoptics are the first three Gospels: Mark, Luke, and Matthew. They're called Synoptic because they're all similar. They relate the same info, and they sound a lot alike. The problem, however, is that the compilers of the Bible put John in as the fourth Gospel. And John is way different than the Synoptics. It's written differently, it has conflicting info, the works. John is a very gnostic piece of literature, and some argue it shouldn't have even been put in the New Testament because of how radically at odds it is with the Synoptics.
A human does not write a book, he dictates it. The pen writes the book. In the case of the Bible, the authors were the pen, God was dictating it.
Prove it.
quote:
The Bible was written over 1000 years by incredibly different people over a very controverisal topic. You try bringing over people from the same economic class, same location, same race, and have them right about a topic like the Son of Man & God and see if you get two alike essays.
My point exactly.
quote:
So where are the errors?
Contradictions in doctrine, arbitrary social laws based on culture (which Jesus later contradicts), which I already illustrated if you had the patience to read the whole post before responding.
quote:
So if the Bible is a misinterpretation of the Will of God,
It's not a misinterpretation of God's will; it's the misinterpretation to say that certain doctrine is the will of God instead of the will of humans.
quote:
why has it not vanished off the face of the earth, like other religious conterfeits?
What is this supposed to mean? Does any religion simply disappear? No.
What do you mean by "religious counterfeits"? Although you have inferred it, nobody has implied that Christianity is a counterfeit.
This is what drives me crazy about fundamentalism: the idea that if the Bible is errant, the whole faith crumbles. That just simply isn't true; you still have the entire foundation of what Christ taught.
quote:
Its incredible how those guys wrote the Bible. As John Adams said, "This book [the Bible] is worth more than all the books in the world."
This point supports nothing except to say that John Adams appreciated the Bible.
quote:
Where do they [Jesus' teachings and teachings found elsewhere in the Bible] conflict?
Read the whole post before you respond. Remember, patience is a virtue.
quote:
In those cases, Jesus is refering to the Pharisees's teachings.
The Pharisees were a group that taught strictly from scripture. Jesus opposed the Pharisees primarily because of their hypocrisy, and not so much because of their teachings.
You can find the teachings which Jesus opposed first presented in Exodus.
quote:
Any student of the Bible knows that Levit laws (of which you are refering), were not for everyone to follow.
And yet it's funny how that doesn't apply to the ban on homosexuality.
quote:
I believe what you just wrote, but for us to know the context, who was the law in Exodus written for?
The law in Exodus was written for everyone who hoped for salvation. The commandment I just cited is the only one that Jesus did not advocate in his teachings for salvation. My understanding is that the commandment for keeping the Sabbath is unique in that it was only intended for the Israelites, so that they would remember the passover.
quote:
Where does Jesus defend or justify homosexuality or gender bending?
My point is that some belief systems will follow Leviticus laws only when those laws suit the prejudices of those systems' adherents, prejudices which Jesus never backed up.
Concerning gender, Jesus' treatment differs from many teachings in the Bible concerning women. I'm not a big fan of Paul in the matter of gender.
quote:
But you have produced no real errors. Until you can find one, by default, that means that the Bible is right.
That's because whenever I've found an error, you've either lowered the bar for biblical authors, exaggerated and otherwise twisted my argument, or erroneously claimed that certain beliefs (ones that Jesus opposed) aren't taught in the Bible.
quote:
What is the common thread that connects (and ultimately divides the New and Old Testaments? The Old Testament was written about how God was going to triumph over death, and the New Testament was about how He did it. Two entirely different concepts, where it is easy to think we've found errors, especially when we're looking for anything that resembles one.
And your point is?
If you're looking for gold and happen to find it, the fact that you were looking for gold shouldn't undermine the gold you found. Well, my friend, I've found gold.
quote:
While it is a mark of good faith to question the human influence on our religion, you are not the first. Through all of the internal power struggles for the Church, none of them have been over the Bible, despite 1900 years of study.
On the contrary; there have been many inter-denominational conflicts over the interpretation and the authority of Bible doctrine. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted this topic in the first place; and, if I did anyway, I would have been the first.
Reactionary, I believe you'd find this argument more enlightening if you looked up the answers to your questions yourself, instead of relying on others to figure things out for you.
Originally posted by iankinzel: In short, "the Bible is the word of God, and every word's true."
Amen.
quote:
1. Humans wrote the Bible. God-breathed or not, the Bible was written using the hands of humans. Humans are fallible, and as humans continue to write, errors become more and more inevitable.
A human does not write a book, he dictates it. The pen writes the book. In the case of the Bible, the authors were the pen, God was dictating it.
quote:
Also, the analogy compares the single act of driving once to the process of writing the Bible- a process that spanned millenia and required dozens of authors.
The Bible was written over 1000 years by incredibly different people over a very controverisal topic. You try bringing over people from the same economic class, same location, same race, and have them right about a topic like the Son of Man & God and see if you get two alike essays.
quote:
The creation of the Bible was not one action, but literally thousands of actions; every verse was an opportunity for error. Humans screw up every once in a while, and it is only reasonable that such happened on a verse here and there throughout the Bible.
So where are the errors?
quote:
2. We only have the word of biblical authors that the Bible is the inerrant word of God; reliance on such testimony is like letting a defendant free because he protests his innocence.
So if the Bible is a misinterpretation of the Will of God, why has it not vanished off the face of the earth, like other religious conterfeits?
quote:
3. To say that God inspired the authors of the Bible still leaves the option that their beliefs were the motivation for writing the Bible; this differs significantly from the accepted explanation that God spoke to the authors, and then the authors transcribed God's word.
Its incredible how those guys wrote the Bible. As John Adams said, "This book [the Bible] is worth more than all the books in the world."
quote:
Jesus' teachings conflicted with teachings (advocated by fallible humans) found elsewhere in the Bible.
Where do they conflict?
quote:
For examples, refer to Jesus' sermon on the mount; he routinely uses the phrase "you have heard" when referring to an older teaching that he is about to contradict.
In those cases, Jesus is refering to the Pharisees's teachings.
quote:
In another part of the Bible, Jesus teaches that what you eat does not make you unclean, but that which you say and do makes you unclean. This is in direct contradiction to all the dietary laws in the old testament.
Any student of the Bible knows that Levit laws (of which you are refering), were not for everyone to follow.
quote:
There is also a commandment in Exodus that prohibits work on the sabbath, and yet Jesus defended a man who violated this commandment.
I believe what you just wrote, but for us to know the context, who was the law in Exodus written for?
quote:
Therefore, there is a conflict between what Jesus taught and what humans claim that God taught. I would rather side with Jesus. Even if you don't believe in Jesus, his teachings do come with logical explanations; in contrast, the ban on homosexuality and the definition of gender roles come without explanation and are therefore arbitrary.
Where does Jesus defend or justify homosexuality or gender bending?
quote:
This argument fails to look at the Bible from the perspective of one who believes there are errors in the Bible. One who believes the Bible is free from error sees only one category for all the teachings in the Bible: those that come directly from God, and are therefore inerrant.
But you have produced no real errors. Until you can find one, by default, that means that the Bible is right.
quote:
However, those who believe that the Bible has errors also believe that there are different categories for the teachings of the Bible: those that come from God (ie. the teachings of Jesus), and those that don't. The idea of doubting the teaching of Jesus is a preposterous to me as doubting the theory of creationism is to a fundamentalist!
What is the common thread that connects (and ultimately divides the New and Old Testaments? The Old Testament was written about how God was going to triumph over death, and the New Testament was about how He did it. Two entirely different concepts, where it is easy to think we've found errors, especially when we're looking for anything that resembles one.
quote:
Those are my arguments against biblical inerrancy. I believe that to question the Bible is not to question God, but to question the men responsible for writing the Bible. Also, an understanding that fallible men wrote the Bible frees Christians from the biases and prejudices of the biblical authors.
While it is a mark of good faith to question the human influence on our religion, you are not the first. Through all of the internal power struggles for the Church, none of them have been over the Bible, despite 1900 years of study.
If one more single frickin Conservative ******* Christian tells me I'm not, I'm going to just completely flip out.
Okay, now that that's over...
quote:
How anyone can claim to be Christian while singling out any part of the Bible as less holy is beyond me.
Did I say it was less "holy"? No where in my entire post did I say it was less holy. But if you are going to follow the rule about homosexuality in Leviticus, then you had better be following the rest of those tedious little rules...
quote:
By the way, if you read some of the letters of Paul, he explicitly speaks out against homosexuals. Of course, only a Christian would know that.
Well, luckily for you, I am in indeed a Christian and I know the letters of which you speak.
First of all, Paul said it, not Jesus.
Second of all, if you would be so kind as to post the actual verse on the web-site, it will be quite easy for me to explain to you exactly how much these verses do not condemn homosexuality, as I have already explained it to others before.
quote:
Yeah, but I find that Worthwaitingfor has been posing as a Christian while spreading anti-Christian ideas, and I'm so sick of people who do that.
I'm sick of people telling me I'm not a Christian just because I don't share similar opinions. The last time I checked, all I had to do was believe in God to be a Christian.
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
Originally posted by clpo13: You're right. I'm not a Christian. I used to be, but when I studied a bit into my religion, I lost faith. It's hard to keep faith in a religion that has not one unique thing about it.
Yeah, but I find that Worthwaitingfor has been posing as a Christian while spreading anti-Christian ideas, and I'm so sick of people who do that.
You're right. I'm not a Christian. I used to be, but when I studied a bit into my religion, I lost faith. It's hard to keep faith in a religion that has not one unique thing about it.
Originally posted by thewalrus: I'm sick of liberals insulting the word of God, who do you think you are? What do you think would have happened if Noah questioned God? We wouldn't be alive right now!
What's even worse is the way you guys will believe anything supporting evolution and homosexuality without any proof, but the second a Christian gets a word in about God, they're called intolerant, bigoted, stupid, when in reality those are what liberals are.
Just read Timothy; it says that the Bible is perfect. If the word of God isn't enough to convince you, then nothing is.
Um...just to let you know, I'm Christian. And nowhere in the Bible (except for Leviticus which doesn't count for very good, logical reasons) does it say homosexuality is wrong.
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
One, I am not a liberal. Two, how do you get off saying that believing in evolution and homosexuality (I find it hard not to believe in homosexuality) without proof is wrong when you put faith in the Bible, which likewise has no proof?
Just for clarification, I don't call all Christians intolerant, bigoted, and stupid. I only call intolerant, bigoted, and stupid Christians that.
I'm sick of liberals insulting the word of God, who do you think you are? What do you think would have happened if Noah questioned God? We wouldn't be alive right now!
What's even worse is the way you guys will believe anything supporting evolution and homosexuality without any proof, but the second a Christian gets a word in about God, they're called intolerant, bigoted, stupid, when in reality those are what liberals are.
Just read Timothy; it says that the Bible is perfect. If the word of God isn't enough to convince you, then nothing is.
I don't see where but if so and if it was my fault, then I apologize...while at the same time telling you to get over it. It's going to happen. While I try to be a nice person and get along with everyone, I'm not going to feel really guilty if I'm not nice once and awhile.
Belief makes things real/Makes things feel, feel alright/Belief makes things true/Things like you, you and I
Topics 
