Ugh...You are all agreeing...I promise...but because you're speaking it differently, you don't get it.

I'll say this and leave it at that: When Christians say "Jesus was God" they mean that He was God's son, as perfect as Him, and extension of him...like God on Earth. They don't mean He was physically God. He wasn't God who just jumped down from Heaven and started walking around.


Continue running around in circles...

So god is Jewish? Sweet, I'll tell my dad.

Baber, you're only quoting John, who we all know thought Jesus was God. But you're completely ignoring everyone else in the Bible. Let me show you.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

but

John 8:40 - "But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God."

John 14:28 - "My Father is greater than I."

1 Timothy 2:5 - "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

And there are many others, like the bit where God says, "This is my son with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him." Or where Jesus beseeches God, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" (translated: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?)

That's what John says god says. And the Hebrews. I say God says you're wrong.

Also, John 5:18

16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Or John 8:58

58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Intersting that Jesus called himself "I am"
God did this in Exodus 3:13-14

13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

Also John 10:31-38

31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, [B]claim to be God."

34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

or John 14:6-21

6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

in Colossians 1:3-20

3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints— 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth. 7 You learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on our[c] behalf, 8 and who also told us of your love in the Spirit.
9 For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding. 10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, 11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you[d] to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption,[e] the forgiveness of sins.
15 [B]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

lastly in Hebrews 1:3

God's Son has all the radiance of God's own Glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together

This is what God's word says. Take it or leave it.

Then Jesus has schizophrenia. Speaking to himself.

Jesus Christ was God. There is no debate in Christianity only in "christian" churches.
It says in John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

Then in Revelation 19 John talks about seeing Christ return as the Warrior-Messiah-King and the title by which he is called is The Word of God.

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

So was Jesus keen on talking about himself in the third person? Was he a schizophrenic? As much as I'd like to think so, I highly doubt it. Read my original post again and come back once you've understood it.

Jesus is God; God is Triune. He is "in" three persons but is yet one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit make up God. Many people will give up believing things like this simply because they don't "get it." Others receive it by grace alone, which God gives.

Ok, first off, I'm gonna start saying I'm athiest, and I have never read the bible, so I could be wrong.

But recently I read a story by Anne Rice called Memnoch the Devil..and it was all about when Jesus came down, and out of all the stories I've heard, this one makes the most sense. Let me explain it to you.

Memnoch played the role of the Devil. He was once an angel, born from God, along with 5 million other so angels. God created earth because he needed to feel matter. It goes throught the series of evolution (You know..man comes from apes..ext..)) and pretty soon man comes into existance. The angels have been down on earth watching all this, and are a little angry that these people look like God. So Memnoch goes and confronts God, and God tells him to just listen and watch.
As people begin to get more orginized and stuff, it seems a sin for them to die. So then Memnoch accuses God once more, telling him he doesn't know what he's doing. God once again tells him to listen and watch.
Memnoch travels back to earth once more, and wants to see if he can make himself human. Succeeding, he takes part in sexual intercourse with a woman.
This angers God, and God traps Memnoch in this human body for three months, telling him to go live with the people he loves so much. Memnoch doesn't know if he will ever see heaven again.
So God brings Memnoch back into heaven, where Memnoch tells him he should let human souls into heaven.
((Before now, the souls had all been trapped in a sort of rotation around the earth, which would explain when souls take over other people's bodies))
This angers God. God sends him to where these souls are, and tells him if he can find ten souls worthy of heaven, then he would be allowed back. Memnoch searches all over for souls, and finally finds the ones he needs. Whether they believed in God when they were living or not, they had forgiven him. Memnoch takes these souls to heaven.
Memnoch wants to bring more souls to heaven. God forbids it. Memnoch tells God he would never understand how Memnoch feels unless he went down and lived "in the flesh" as he had. God sends Memnoch back to earth to be a watcher once more.
Soon Memnoch finds a man who was said to be in the forest for 40 days. This man is infact God incarnate. Memnoch speaks with him, and tells him he could never really understand unless he dies on the cross not knowing he would go back to heaven.
God dies knowing he is God. This angers Memnoch. So God tells Memnoch if he thinks he is so right, he should go to where the souls are trapped, "hell" in other words, and teach them how to get to Heaven. Memnoch is to rule there until he gets every soul to Heaven.

While this explains a lot more than whether God was Jesus or not, if there really is such a thing, yes, I belive God was Jesus.

God sent jesus to earth as his son and he had planned for jesus to die on the cross. jesus's dying was all planned out. it happenen because God didn't want us to die. the punishment for sin is death, so basically we all have sin. God didn't want us to die cuz he loves us since he created us. in that case, jesus, being perfect, could take the punishment for us

I don't get how anyone can think that Jesus was physically God. Yes, the Trinity is taught as one because Jesus was Godlike on Earth and the Holy Spirit lives within. But how can anyone think that this human man actually was god? That would mean that they would have to think that there's a Holy Ghost physically floating around somewhere.

Also, it defeats the whole structure of Christianity---the belief that the Messiah has came and that He is Jesus.

I guess I've never heard of this being debated before because I'm Protestant.

Sorry for my slightly rude comment earlier. I should've known that you wouldn't have posted this without knowing everything I explained!

I did know all of that, Worth. However, many people are indeed taught that Jesus was God. Ever heard the phrase "the Son and the Father are one"? This point is especially evident in the Nicene Creed:

quote:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The bold is for emphasis. This is a more Catholic notion than anything else, but it's obvious that God the Father and Jesus the Son are one and the same, according to the Council of Nicea which convened in 325 AD.

I should put a little background into this debate. It's not a major debate now, except between the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches, but in the couple of centuries after Jesus was crucified, it was literally a matter of life and death. You see, there were a group of people who followed an Alexandrian priest named Arius. They believed that Jesus was a mere mortal, yet had done such good actions that he was blessed by God. However, another Alexandrian, Athanasius, believed quite the opposite. Jesus was God. Each group hated each other and the debate went on within the early Church until the Arians were finally called heretics and thrown out of the Church. That's why it's not taught that Jesus was only human, even though he undoubtedly was. Athanasius' view won out in the end.

Personally, I don't really take much stock in an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God of sorts being involved in worldly affairs. Sure, he/she/it is probably there, but why muck around solely on one world when there are undoubtedly billions upon billions in the Universe that also have sentient life on them? It doesn't make logical sense. However, I believe Jesus was a man of impeccable morals, although perhaps a bit on the touchy side (wrecking the temple and whatnot).

I had no idea this was a major debate. I'm going to go ahead and say this is the concrete, right answer and not an opinion---just because I can't imagine what the other opinion would be:

Jesus was a real guy---there is proof of him existing (no, I do not have a source for you; I was told this). The Jews were taught (and are still taught) that a Messiah would one day come to save them from evil/their sins. This guy Jesus comes and says He is the Son of God (i.e. the Messiah). We all know the story, Mary was a Virgin and had him through the power of God, making him the Messiah.

Well, not all Jews believed that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. The ones who did believe were the first Christians---the religion Jesus taught became Christianity (believe in Christ, Jesus Christ). The ones who did not believe he was the Messiah are the ancestors of the Jews today who are still waiting for the Messiah to come.

As the story goes, Jesus was persecuted mostly because people were thinking this guy was crazy because he kept saying he was the Messiah. To them, it was blasphemous. This was the beginning of the largest monotheistic religion as we know it today. But then, it was at least 12 people that we know of (the disciples) and the few others that followed Him. That's why so many people say, "Well, Jesus himself was a Jew, why do you follow him?" Yes, Jesus was a Jew because he started Christianity by just existing.

So Jesus gets crucified, dies, rises back up. The rising back up showed people (those who believed he was the Messiah to begin with) that this guy really was who he said he was. His god lifted him up to live in eternal life in Heaven. And now that he was the first and the reason why we can be forgiven for our sins, Christians can now also look forward to eternal peace in Heaven.

Jesus was not God...he was the leader to God. He brought people to God as the Messiah.

In a perfect world, all of God's followers (Jews) would have believed him and there would be no Jewish people today because all of them would be Christian, having believed Jesus was the Messiah. But, since we are given free will, God's plan didn't really turn out that way. I don't think He minds.

The phrase, "Jesus was God," is more meant that he was God-like---that he was holy because he was the Messiah. Not that he actually was God, like physically. You're right, that doesn't make sense and that's why it's not taught like that.

I don't know how you didn't know all of this, clpo.