YN Home  
Home Causes Boards Debate Tools Join YN!
Search YN:
 
YouthNoise Home Page    Topics    Youth Speak Out | Chat | Activism  Hop To Forum Categories  YOUTH ISSUES  Hop To Forums  School & Education    Government education
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
-star Rating Rate It!  Login/Join 
<JoeyDauben>
Posted   Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
I wrote an essay (argumentative) for English on why our government (U.S.) should be "expelled" from schools.

In order for me to become a better writer, I need motivation - so if YouthNOISE readers would, please read the (exhaustive) essay and let me know what questions or comments you might have.

It'd be easier to just post your comments on my website (guestbook) and on here.

But whatever is fine.

Enjoy.


Government should be "expelled" from schools

http://www.joeydauben.com/Education.htm
Picture of Dante
Registered: April 27, 2002
Posts: 855
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
done?
Picture of Dante
Registered: April 27, 2002
Posts: 855
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
quote:
But early in the paper, I sunk the pro-federal government education debate.

I didn't see anything explicitly in the paper about wh it's the federal government's fault.
quote:

The federal government has NO right whatsoever in regulating or controlling education - anything after the fact is illegal, or should be.

Granted, it's unconstitutional and the DoE as an institution of the federal government should have never been created. But, that's no argument that it is a bad thing. Constitutionality doesn't dictate right and wrong.
quote:

Of course, if everyone were to believe the U.S. Consitution even meant anything, we'd be at 1776 levels (of govt.).

Or maybe 1790ish when the constitution actually existed. wink

quote:
"Recently, Red Oak Independent School District police officers confiscated student identification cards at Red Oak High School in efforts to crack down on the school’s drug problem. The next day, the cards were run through drug-testing machines."
Someone please tell me why that is not a problem.

It most certainly is a problem. But it's a local occurence, not a knock on federal intervention.
Also, obviously there was some perception (right or wrong) of a 'drug problem' and I'm sure the parents and the police were more than happy to infringe on student's rights.

quote:
"In the fourth grade, 77 percent of children in high-poverty schools are reading “below basic” levels, according to the Department of Education-funded National Assessment of Educational Progress test."
Actually, in urban areas, education performance is lower than the suburbs, so this isn't any surprise really.

And the point is...
Also, in addition to my attack on testing as a criteria, two things: One, standardized tests have been shown to be culturally biased so as to basically rig the system and not accurately portray ability; two, failure ot meet even national testing standards is a failure of local or state curriculum because the federal government does little to nothing to actually set the programs and methods of teaching. Poor results is more an indictment of the status quo (state and local control) than a percieved national intervention.

quote:
"In California, parents in one local school district are protesting school policies which they say allow teachers and school staff to talk about homosexuality with children - and openly discuss their own homosexual lifestyles with students during classroom instruction time."
If schools shouldn't teach morality, then why is a homosexual teacher allowed to openly discuss his/her lifestyle?

I never said it was okay. In the context maybe of a class on morality or current events these issues can be discussed in a frank manner, just as we can teach classes on religion (more or less comparitive religion).
You would have to explain the context and purpose of the discusson for me to understand why it was being talked aobut at all. If it was outside the realm of any relevant discussion or purpose, or its intent was clearly or discernably to influence children against their will, that is certainly not an appropriate thing to do.
<JoeyDauben>
Posted   Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
"Recently, Red Oak Independent School District police officers confiscated student identification cards at Red Oak High School in efforts to crack down on the school’s drug problem. The next day, the cards were run through drug-testing machines."

Someone please tell me why that is not a problem.

"In the fourth grade, 77 percent of children in high-poverty schools are reading “below basic” levels, according to the Department of Education-funded National Assessment of Educational Progress test."

Actually, in urban areas, education performance is lower than the suburbs, so this isn't any surprise really.

"In California, parents in one local school district are protesting school policies which they say allow teachers and school staff to talk about homosexuality with children - and openly discuss their own homosexual lifestyles with students during classroom instruction time."

If schools shouldn't teach morality, then why is a homosexual teacher allowed to openly discuss his/her lifestyle?



"Federal education spending for grades K-12 has risen 212 percent since 1960 according to DOE statistics."

Actually, I should have added "minus inflation" like I did with the other stats.

And oh, that was Department of Education stats;

"Find a state that specifically taxes the wealthiest more and explicitly spends said revenue on education for the poorest. If you find one, put it in here."

Texas; Highland Park, Plano, Carroll ISD (all three in DFW Metroplex) must fork over millions to the state for the redistribution.

For example, Plano ISD has to send $127 million.

If schools ran the way they were intended (in states), then the local school districts would tax property owners to pay for THEIR schools - at least that's how I thought it worked.



I'll have more replies later, but feel free to e-mail me more:

joeydauben@hotmail.com
<JoeyDauben>
Posted   Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
Yeah, you're right about one thing; I need more background information, explanation of statistical info and basically needed a bigger, longer paper - the paper was 1,500+ words - the limit was 1,200.

I'm not ready to submit this for an editorial - I want to get the paper graded and see what others' suggestions were, which I appreciate by the way.

But early in the paper, I sunk the pro-federal government education debate.

The federal government has NO right whatsoever in regulating or controlling education - anything after the fact is illegal, or should be.

Of course, if everyone were to believe the U.S. Consitution even meant anything, we'd be at 1776 levels (of govt.).

I'm going to have to break down your replies in parts, so bare with me.

...and here we go.
Picture of Dante
Registered: April 27, 2002
Posts: 855
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
I’m really sorry, I had a long and detailed critique but computers **** up sometimes so here is what you get:

quote:
Recently, Red Oak Independent School District police officers confiscated student identification cards at Red Oak High School in efforts to crack down on the school’s drug problem. The next day, the cards were run through drug-testing machines.

In the fourth grade, 77 percent of children in high-poverty schools are reading “below basic” levels, according to the Department of Education-funded National Assessment of Educational Progress test.

In California, parents in one local school district are protesting school policies which they say allow teachers and school staff to talk about homosexuality with children - and openly discuss their own homosexual lifestyles with students during classroom instruction time.

There is no point to any of that. It doesn’t outline a problem or even prove there is one. Additionally, there is no reason to believe funding couldn’t help, especially in poorer schools.

quote:
Federal education spending for grades K-12 has risen 212 percent since 1960 according to DOE statistics.

Statistics can be manipulated. Also, inflation, strength of the dollar, when the money was spent, what it was used for, why money was spent, differences in curriculum and tools, etc. Aren’t taken into account. Gross figures like this lie and don’t tell the whole story. Explanations are warranted if you’re goig to make a statement like that.

quote:
Many state government’s “share-the-wealth” scheme, or “Robin Hood” to Texans, tax wealthier property owners to subsidize poverty-stricken school districts (a.k.a. socialism).

This isn’t some flame to bash your opponents so don’t write it like one. Colonial America had taxes levied, it wasn’t socialist. Nor is redistribution of wealth the only part of socialism or unique to socialism.
You can’t just assert that this happens. Find a state that specifically taxes the wealthiest more and explicitly spends said revenue on education for the poorest. If you find one, put it in here.

quote:
Such cases are just a sampling of the federal government being able to use its power to violate student’s (i.e., individual) rights and force parents to abide by politically correct “equality” standards - and all the while taxing many homeowners into oblivion.

I don’t think you could even anecdotally prove that some are being “taxed into oblivion” especially if you’re talking about taxes on the rich. It betrays a lack of knowledge about taxes. Flux in the education budget would barely faze anyone, however, the defense budget could be cut by $50 to $100 billion and some redistributed to education and you would save people money and arguably solve a lot of the funding problems with schools.

quote:
The government, having failed at teaching children properly and advocating an immoral social conscience should be “expelled” from public schools.

Where did you say anything about immorality that should lead us to believe you’re going talk about it?

quote:
With federal government facts and figures to back up my claims, I will refute any attempt to try to associate one’s claims of a successful and wholesome government-crafted education.

“Successful” and “wholesome” need to be defined. They are way too subjective and you don’t even explain why they are appropriate or any good as standards of education. Screw wholesome, I thought the point was to learn.

quote:
In fact, according to the United States Constitution, the federal government has no authority whatsoever in regulating or controlling education.
Those rights, detailed in the Tenth Amendment, belong to the states and therefore, make the federal government’s control illegal.

True, and an explanation of why and how federal control developed might be appropriate. The reasons for that should be interesting ad should be a good start for an attack. However, I don’t think your problem is even with the federal government, states and localities present most of the problems you talk about and one could assume more federal control rather than less would be the solution to bungling districts.

quote:
Strike one.
Don’t mix your metaphors. You said you want to “expel” the federal government, stick with that, or change it altogether.

quote:
Between 1960 and 1995, the DOE reported that per-pupil spending rose 212 percent and the student/teacher ratio has dropped by 35 percent - from approximately 26 students for every one U.S. public school teacher to only 17.

Not only that, but the average salary of a public school teacher jumped 45 percent. And in a 1994 DOE school facilities survey, fewer than 50 percent of the personnel employed in U.S. public schools were teachers.

Again with the statistics. Additionally, it takes a lot of people to run a school district. From school boards to para pros, janitors, lawyers, bus drivers, lunch ladies, secretaries, counselors, etc.
If people would stop suing schools over frivolous claims the school could spend more attention and resources actually teaching the students. You say you want parents teaching morals, well how about parents teaching kids not to eat dirt? Schools as parents is a corrupt idea and leads only to more spending on lawyers, rules, and people to enforce them. Make the parents focus on parenting, allow the schools to focus on schooling, and there will be an environment much more conducive to voluntary and healthy learning. Not only that, but you’ll save money.

quote:
The Midlothian ISD has the highest tax rate in Ellis County and one of the highest in North Texas.

Connect the dots. What kind of education do they provide? Are the taxes specifically for education?

quote:
So what good does all the money do? Are our children learning?

Heh, maybe …”is our children learning?”….sorry

quote:
Student performances on the government’s own standardized tests and numerous government-led studies prove that more spending doesn’t equate to more learning - in fact, students K-12 are being “dumbed down,” a term used to describe government schools’ effect on students academically.

“Dumbed down” is a term used to describe teaching that ‘teaches to the test’ or strictly encourages better performance on these tests used to evaluate them, or the system of class only going as fast or advanced as the slowest students, that truly leaves “no child behind”.

quote:
…But it’s precisely what 57 percent of high school seniors could not perform on the 2001 U.S. History Report Card - a federally mandated test that was administered to 29,000 students nationwide.
A dismal 32 percent of seniors performed at the basic level; the test performance rankings were divided into four parts: basic, proficient (at grade level), advanced and superior.
One percent tested advanced or superior, according to the report.
And this is just one test.

You mislead. Only 32% scored basic, yes, but 43% scored above failing. You statistic makes us assume the other 68% failed. Not that it’s indicative of quality education, but don’t make it look worse than it really is.

quote:
Seventy-seven percent of fourth-graders in high-poverty areas, as mentioned earlier, tested at “below basic” levels in the NAEP reading survey.
According to the same test administered to high school seniors, over 10 million students could not read at the basic level.
The NAEP test is administered annually through - who would have guessed - the Department of Education. And the NAEP test was devised by…the Department of Education.
And the students taking these tests are in…government-run schools.
But aside from federal reading and history tests, basic math skills are also lacking.
Just 32 percent of high school sophomores registered “above average” on the NAEP tests in math.
A recent USA Today/Associated Press (reported on ABC News) poll of high school math and science teachers across the country said some of their students have trouble “grasping” basic math skills (I feel their pain; math is foreign as Swahili to me).

One third are above average and this is a bad thing? Some will fail. It’s the natural order of things. Based on the bell curve standard it’s not bad at all.
What you point out here is a problem with the tests, or testing in general. It’s these kinds of things and the risk of losing funding that force teachers to think they have to dumb down the material or teach the test. What happens is education as a whole suffers because the kids learn the test, do well, but don’t gain any real knowledge.
Scrap the tests, fire the testers, find a more adequate measuring tool, something that works. The problem you present is solvable, scrapping the entire system is neither warranted nor necessary.
None of these anecdotes point to a problem with federal controlled education.

quote:
Learning and out-of-control spending is not the only problem to plague public education.

You might want to rephrase that, it makes it sound like you think learning is a problem, when I think you mean ‘lack of learning’.
Also, you have yet to prove funding is even adequate, let alone out of control.

quote:
…At issue is an April 10 resolution by the school board directing the adoption of a “safe school plan” to protect students and staff from harassment or violence.
Under federal law, school district employees, like those of all public (read: government) entities, are prohibited from discriminating against people on the sole basis of race, gender, age, ethnicity, religious creed - and - sexual preference and/or orientation.
The National Education Agency, a teachers union with a membership of two million members, was blasted for their endorsement of the “Safe Schools” resolution by the parents and national (conservative) groups.


So what? Tell me why I should care or why I’m reading it at all. Don’t put the point so far down.

quote:
And during a recent expose on high school choirs, ABC News reported that “more choir directors are finding it easier to come out” of the closet.

An “expose” on choirs…make them sound like some den of iniquity or something .. jeez.
Like a frickin’ hair salon… Why is it a problem teachers are coming out of the closet?

quote:
Some homosexuals have even found their way teaching in elementary schools, causing a stir of protest from parents.

Homosexuals wanting to teach? And right when we need teachers? ::Gasp!::

quote:
Hispanics in Texas, which will make up the majority of the state population by 2025 in U.S. Census projections, were offended by the amount of “bias” shown in Texas schoolbooks.
The new curriculum still teaches Texas independence, but administrators said the “us vs. them” attitude has softened.
Hispanics now have more and “equal” representation in Texas history books.
In coverage of the debate, Fox News reported: “History is written by those who won. But for today’s multicultural Texas, some say history is being rewritten for those who lost.”

Again with the no point. Why even bring this up?

quote:
Two students in Davenport, Ill. sued their school district in federal court after school officials there banned the distribution of Bibles and other Christian literature.
Becky Swope, a plaintiff in the case, said schools allow students to distribute non-religious fliers and information.
Formerly, Christianity was to be encouraged in school; in fact, it was advanced. Daily Bible readings and devotionals were an accepted standard in public education in the 1940s and 50s.
Now the theory of Evolution is taught without one mention of Creation; the posting of the Ten Commandments is illegal and prayer at football games and graduation ceremonies is banned on most school grounds.


Great, schools have changed in the last half-century. One can only hope we’ve had some advancements. Courts are finally recognizing the intended “wall of separation”. I assume you don’t like this., but you’re going to need to spit it out.

quote:
Government schools have embraced politically correct terms such as “diversity,” “equality” and “tolerance” through their forced hiring procedures and have barred basic moral teachings through their curriculum and unconstitutional mandates, thus causing a gaping hole in the nation’s moral fiber as well.

You act as though these aren’t admirable goals. You fail to warrant why. You don’t provide proof of “forced hiring”. And you assume it’s a school’s responsibility to teach morality. What happened to their parents? Did there lose the option of home-schooling or private schooling somewhere? Make school voluntary; the kids succeeding, by and large, will be the ones going to school. Define “moral fiber”. Your morals or mine? Where is this phantom menace you speak of?

quote:
Recent polls show that teachers and college professors, during classroom discussions, note that students cannot decipher what is morally right and what is morally wrong.

Nor can many professors or students of philosophy. We should only be so lucky. Indoctrination is not the answer. That builds automatons and children incapable of discovering morality for themselves, in essence they are non moral beings. You can only be moral if you choose to live the moral life, not if you know no other option.

quote:
By allowing homosexuals to teach Kindergarten, are you surprised?

I’m surprised someone trying to get a good grade has made such a baseless and ignorant claim. This paper has dissipated into one of your rants, not a piece of scholarly work.

quote:
Federal, state, and local education “experts” will claim that the money being taken from taxpayers to fund their unconstitutional education program is actually being put to good use.
But with the government’s own reports and their own agencies statistics, it’s hard to prove otherwise.

Actually, at the DOE site you’ll find statistics of MEAP scores rising, SAT and ACT scores going up as well, and they’ll all take the credit. The money might not be going to good use but you have yet to prove otherwise.
Nor have you shown where these mysterious “unconstitutional mandates” are. I thought you were going to contest that all federal mandates are unconstitutional.

quote:
There are good school districts in the U.S. and there are many students who do grasp basic reading, writing and math skills.
Students in many schools even come from wholesome, morally led families.

They come from privileged, white, suburban families. Morality has nothing to do with it; you don’t consider me moral, but I’m not a failure. Station in life has more to do with education than you care to talk about and I think it’s pitiful you don’t even talk about the condition of inner-city schools and yet contend money isn’t the answer. How can you teach reading without books or adequate teachers? 27% of math teachers didn’t major or minor in math. There is a shortage of such basic things as desks at even some of the good schools, and it’s the students who suffer. You want to blame homosexuals for the problems you can’t even find a logical link for.
You lack anything resembling a valid argument here and I can’t figure out why besides the fact that you let your view cloud reasonable judgment and fact.

quote:
The federal government has controlled education for decades, has increased funding and spending by billions, yet there’s nothing to show for it; morality has gone out the window, students in high school can’t read at basic levels and citizens’ property taxes are going through the roof.

Already addressed.

quote:
“Government schools can’t teach reading, writing, and arithmetic - why should we trust them to teach morality, respect, and character?” asked former Libertarian Party National Director Steve Dasbach. “If public education does for ethics what it’s done for learning, we’ll end up with a generation of immoral, disrespectful, and characterless students.”

It’s a failure of the parents, not the schools. You pass the buck and don’t consider your own position. Why should the school be teaching a diverse population all the same thing and not considering individuality? Why not leave it up to the family or encourage the student to find their own individual path? He speaks about a false assumption: One, that schools can’t teach basics, and two, that it has any bearing on the teaching of morality.

quote:
And that, is reason to expel government from school.

Which you’ve failed to prove.



It seems like most of this paper is leading up to what we here know is inevitable, the attacks on liberals and homosexuals. I could listen to Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell if I wanted to hear that. What you’re supposed to prove here is that money isn’t related to performance, or at best that it decreases performance (an absurd claim at best). In fact we know that those individuals born privileged, going to the best schools generally do very well in life, which lends itself to the conclusion that money and location do weigh in to a student’s future.
The paper, with tweaking might make a good editorial for your paper but does not stand up to academic standards for logic and argumentation. You should address the concerns of misleading and inappropriate statistics as well as adding information, background, and proof where it is needed.
I don’t know how strict your teacher is but there are way more convincing argument for the eradication of the DOE. Unconstitutionality being the big one.
There is another problem, your target is vague and undefined. One could think it’s the federal government based on your political leanings and harping on the DOE, but in general non of your arguments apply only to the federal government. A lot of the anecdotes are based on local politics and spending and yet you don’t single that out as your focus.
There is nothing constructive about the paper. We don’t find out what you would do or your arguments for that. We also don’t find anything positive that can be done. And you show there is obviously a lot to be done. None of it however leads directly to your conclusion however. There is always alternative causality or alternative solutions that don’t involve getting rid of major funding and abandoning education to some nebulous, undefined future.
Given the two options, of the status quo or nothing at all there is no question what the rational person would choose if this is all they had to go on. The current system has a lot better chance of solving itself or pumping out intelligent people (and it has) than the nothingness you seem to desire.
Finding a focus and providing an alternative would add strength and length to the paper. Again, not knowing the teacher or the requirements I can’t give more specific suggestions but there are some major holes and you need to work on it some more.
 Previous Topic | Next Topic powered by eve community  
 

YouthNoise Home Page    Topics    Youth Speak Out | Chat | Activism  Hop To Forum Categories  YOUTH ISSUES  Hop To Forums  School & Education    Government education