i agree drugs are bad for you and can be very addictive, but you still have the right to do whatever you want to your body.

yes the short term effects are bad, but there are no long term effects... You dont even have to smoke it! you can eat it or vaporize it.

It is obvious that the illegal substance addicts on this board are incapable of even agreeing that, yes, pot is bad for you. I can agree that tobbacco and alcohol are bad for you body. But the addicts cannot admit that we are in fact right about the damaging affects of the gateway drug that is marijuana. It is truely disappointing.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.
*This post has been deemed racism free by the coalition of Bushsupporter and Marine16*

I was anti-drugs before I became a stoner
now...drug tests=B-A-D

I agree with smileygrl810. That is all for now folks!!

Right. Some see a behavorist, some see a therapest, some see a phystartrist (sp), but all in all marjiana caused mental illness (an extreme rarity in its own right) can be just as easily treated as any other mental illness.

Actually, mental illnesses are treated through many different therapies, it all depends on what's best suited for the person with the illness.

another point to add is you DONT HAVE TO SMOKE IT. you can eat it or vaporize it.

"If it triggers mental illness, why risk it? There are cures for almost anything that can trigger a mental illness, but non for weed." -marine16

Like bauhaus I too would like some sources to prove that. The last time I checked, most mental illnesses (especially depression) were treated by a combination of medicine and therapy. No matter if it was caused by marjiana, genetic depression, or giving birth.

"If you smoke once a week and it takes - a liberal number - seven days for you memory to get back to normal it is constantly affected. This creates a problem for students. If you can not see that I feel sorry for you, I really do."
-marine16


How many times need I repeat that any memory loss is minuscule at best? I don't really think loosing my glasses at a friends house. or forgetting to get milk at the grocery store (which as I've said is the worst that would happen with that degree of memory loss) is severe enough of a drawback for much action. It certainly doesn't effect my schoolwork, or many of my other friends's schoolwork.

"If all the bases are covered, why allow something that is so dangerous to inhale?"
-marine16

For the same reason there is more than one medication out there for PMS. Some people take tylenal, some take midal, some take asprin. Different people react better to different medications, and there are several things out there that "get the job done". My grandmother has severe athritus and she therw up when her doctor prescribed codine for her. She said it had an absulutly horrible effect on her. But when she tried smoking weed,she had a much better reaction. All medications out there have drawbacks, and it should be up to the consumer to choice which medication they prefer. Besides, some habe multiple benifits that the perosn is seeking, such as that marjiana not only can ease pain, but it also makes one sleepier, hungerier, and reduces nausia.

"There are sleeping pills. Codine eases pain." -marine16

*snicker* And you'd prefer that a person take sleeping pills or codeine to weed? You DO know that those are both addictive and quite easy to overdose on? For Godsakes, codeine is in the narcotics family, the same family as heroin and medamorphines.

http://www.drugrehabamerica.net/FAQ-codeine.htm

If one can use codeine, which they very well might become addicted to, can cause all sorts of minor health problems on its own (see link) and can kill, WHY again is this better than something which one cannot overdose on, is not physically addictive, and thats only defects are small memory loss and increased risk of lung cancer?

Why can a person choose to use codeine medically, but not marjiana?

"Alcohol is legal, the debate here is on drugs, stick to the topic." -marine18

I'm just trying to prove a point of how hypocritical the goverment is to have things that are more harmful than weed legal, but weed, which is safer than alcohol or cigerates, illegal.

"marijuana does not cure cancer."-marine16

I didn't say it did. Chemotherapy doesn't "cure"
cancer either. I said it helps cancer paitents pain diminish, nausua decrease and shirks tumor cells. It's benifical, but not a magical cure.

"Musicians who write good when they are high is not a valid arguement."-marine16

I'm proving my point that marjiana can increase creativity in individuals which is a benifit of smoking it.

"Marijuana is a gateway drug."-marine16

Bull.

"In short, there is no inevitable relationship between the use of marijuana and other drugs. This fact is supported by data from other countries. In the Netherlands, for example, although marijuana prevalence among young people increased during the past decade, cocaine use decreased - and remains considerably lower than in the United States. Whereas approximately 16% of youthful marijuana users in the U.S. have tried cocaine, the comparable figure for Dutch youth is 1.8 percent. Indeed, the Dutch policy of allowing marijuana to be purchased openly in government-regulated "coffee shops" was designed specifically to separate young marijuana users from illegal markets where heroin and cocaine are sold."

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml

quote:

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If it triggers mental illness, why risk it? There are cures for almost anything that can trigger a mental illness, but non for weed.

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source

quote:

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Most stoners constantly smoke

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why do you think they are called stoners cause they like to eat candy??

quote:

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Tums reduces nasua. There are sleeping pills. Codine eases pain. Increase in appetite is not a benefit, unless you want everyone to become obese.

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No they dont, I was seriously sick for a week and couldnt eat because I was always dizzy, i smoked weed and it fixed that problem. I did

not become over weight.

quote:

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Marijuana is a gateway drug.

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do you honestly believe that? or is that what DARE told you? HIGH SCHOOL is a gateway drug thats where I got all my drug connections,,

before you start spewing a bunch of stupid bull**** why dont you learn the facts before you lie to all the kids.

1 - If it triggers mental illness, why risk it? There are cures for almost anything that can trigger a mental illness, but non for weed. Why would yuou want people to be able to smoke weed, like children, who are msot likley to get depression when it will cause them to get depressed?

2 - Most stoners constantly smoke. If you smoke once a week and it takes - a liberal number - seven days for you memory to get back to normal it is constantly affected. This creates a problem for students. If you can not see that I feel sorry for you, I really do.

3 - My prior statement stands.

4 - Tums reduces nasua. There are sleeping pills. Codine eases pain. Increase in appetite is not a benefit, unless you want everyone to become obese. but like you said, doctors can prescribe something to cover this. If all the bases are covered, why allow something that is so dangerous to inhale?

As for your attacks on bushsupporter.
Alcohol is legal, the debate here is on drugs, stick to the topic. Bushsupporter is right, marijuana does not cure cancer. Musicians who write good when they are high is not a valid arguement.

Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Marine-

1. I choose to use depression as it is extremly common. Obviously there are a great many other mental illnesses, so many in fact that for one to research each and every one of them would require a lot more time than I have. vWhicj is unnecessary as that one response all ready proved my point. Life events can cause mental illness (depression is a TYPE of mental illness)

2. It's nice that you know people who smoke weed. I hope they're having a good time. Problem is, it doesn't do anything for your argument no matter how much they smoked. I all ready said most stoners (including those you know) would have the minor memory loss for a few weeks. It doesn't matter how much you've taken, once you stop-it comes back in the same amount of time. Of course I don't expect them to stop smoking, and thus they constantly have the MINOR memory loss. But as I've been repeating for the past three posts, the loss is the sort of thing that makes you forget your keys. Not fail highschool or half your IQ.

3. Depends on how you define harm to your soul. I would say if someone hurts you in an emotional way, both your soul and heart have been hurt. But that's just my way of looking at it. Please don't start an arugment over semantics.

4. It has been proven that pot reduces nausua, increases appitite and increases ability to sleep\
(why else do you think it's recommended for cancer paitents..see other previous links)As for the mood lift and creative efforts, how could an emotional high or sensitional experience under that high be proven in any way but experience? (and I think just about everyone who ever smoked pot has stated those things are true)

Bushsupporter-
1. Marjiana is not a cure for cancer. There is no present "cure" for cancer. But it does help get rid of said cancer, just as chemo does. It does shrink cancer tumors. It does ease pain. It does make sick people feel very much better. No one ever said you can just smoke a joint and be cured of cancer. But it's definitly benifical.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=9257

2. Not all music made stoned is necessarily better than music made sober, but a lot of
fantastic, famous music WAS made stoned, as being stoned increases creativity (according to basically everyone whose ever smoked weed in their lives)

3. Whether the costs outweigh the benifits is an individual decision. As pot can increase the risk of lung cancer (the singular truly negative health risk in smoking), it is very much a PERSONAL decision everyone has to make for themselves. Not govermental. Whilst I believe the government shouldn't tell anyone what to put in thier body, they make themselves out to be even huger hypocrites by making weed illegal, and having such things as cigerates and alcohol legalized while they cause more damage. Why exactly do you think that is bushsupporter? Or do you not believe alcohol and cigerates should be legalized either? You think cigerates are bad for you? Try alcohol. TRY comparing what alcohol does to your liver, your brain, everything, to what weed does.

4. If one is underweight or sick yes, I would consider taking something that increases your appitite (as doctors prescribe to people with that proble,) benifical.

smileygirl-
Not all people become addicted to drugs. Some experiment and never end up "needing" any particular substance. Others never explore anything beyond pot. But I definitly agree with you about the prejudice in drug testing. Just another example of the injustice in our supposidly just system....

BTW Bush...Like I said in my last post I'm not an addict and I doubt very much that smoking pot is "degrading our society". I would call having an insanely prejudice atittude toward all those who smoke pot degrading our society, as we are supposed to live in a place that is free of all discrimmination whatsoever. Why don't you stop parading your close minded, goverment sheep who can't think for himself bull and either get informed or help your friend marine argue this. You'll notice he seems to have dropped the weed destroying ones immune system or fertility thing....

Have you ever had an alcohol in your life? If so, are you an addict?

I don't think drug testing is fair toward the students. This is just another way to express discrimination against certain people. They would mainly test the atheletes of the school. Statistics say that many African- american and latino students use more than other ethnicities. That may be true, but does that mean if you "randomly" chose students to take the drug test, would they be mainly one nationality? Not only that but it is an insult to the remainder of the student body. Why should other students pe penilized for doing something that they don't do. That's not right.

It's true,some drugs such as marijuana do have some good medical purposes such as relieving pain from arthritis. But most people use it because of 1.)experimentation 2.)curiousity or 3.)rebellion. This is the begining of level 1 what is called a drug use continuum.
In this level they might experience the occasional hangover and possibly tell white lies about use to rationalize it and make it seem better than it is. Then starts the second level where the frequency of the use goes up and they might begin to take stronger doses of the drug. This also leads to experimentation w/ more exotic types of use like LSD, PCP, Speed, downers, and coke.It then become used on a regular basis like on weekends and some weekdays. Their reasons for use are then to avoid boredom, or because adult role models use it in a similar fashion which leads to level 3: most sophistacated drug use. The use becomes more normal to them then. They have developed a rep as a user and the reason for use now becomes to avoid uncomfortable feelings, family, and responsibilities.The consequences of these acts include, lower attendance rate at school, the dropping of grades, less family involvement, legal problems, loss of value and morality, and their social conections involve a use.They gain physical problems, and ultimately mental problems because they cannot control the use. This is addiction. Tolerance of the drug is first. This is when they need to have more of the drug to try to acheive that same high. Second is withdrawl, where they become very ill. Then they need increasing amounts so that they don't have that ill feelings. They then make attemps the stop use, but the aren't able to because of the addiction,which in short leads to drug problems where they use even though they know its wrong. Is all that worth medical purposes?

Why make something illegal that there is no reported case of it killing anyone?

Should we make prescription drugs illegal? what about doctors? they kill way more people then marijuana does.

Prescription drugs: estimate 100,000 deaths

106,000 estimate, from a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, April 1998. Excerpt from study::

A new analysis by researchers at the University of Toronto, who examined 39 studies, estimated that an average of 106,000 deaths at U.S. hospitals in 1994 were due to bad reactions to drugs. "Serious adverse drug reactions are frequent ... more so than generally recognized," the researchers said. "Fatal adverse drug reactions appear to be between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death."

Bushsupporter why do you want to invade on peoples rights? this is AMERICA land of the free, not your nazi state idea of freedom.

I guess you learn something every day, so let me get this straight. Not only does pot cure cancer, but music made while under the influence is always better than music made sober. I guess that makes sense. And why do I keep giving moey for cancer funds, there is already a cure out there: pot. This is absurd. The fact is that the costs outwiegh the benefit when it comes to pot and it should therefore stay illegal. Also, i dont count an increse in appetite a benift. You are just naming things it does and calling it a benefit.
Bauhuas- I can give you a list of poets who will disagree with you too. By the way, what do they have to do with anything. Like they are more credible than me or you. They are poets, not scientists or other universally recognized brilliant people.


Moving right along...

*Makes a citizans arrest on all of the addicts and carts them down to the police station to turn them in for attempting to degrade our society.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know who were basing your entire arguement off depression. Do you not know there are other mental illness. If you want, I can provide with a list of several more mental illnesses.

Most people i know who smoke when they are away from smoke daily. It is not unusual for them to spend 200 hundred dollars a week on drugs. It is also not uncommon for them to smoke when they wake up or before they have to be placed in a social setting.

"So many things can harm your body" - Many things do hurt your body, but not many things corrode your soul.

"Benifits of Pot: reduces nausua, increases appitite, lifts mood, increases ability to sleep, and as bauhaus said, it increases creativity and idea flow, (helps you create better music. Or poetry or art or etc, etc, etc). Not to mention the spiritual benifits, or medical help it can give cancer paitents, those with athritus or or other diseases (AND it shrinks cancer tumor cells). " - It has never been proven that there is a benefit to pot. It is all speculation that stoners have exploited to their liking.

quote:

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I can ramble off a handful of poets/writers that'll disagree with you.

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Bauhaus, what the **** are you talking about?

The catch 22 was reverted into illegal law only due to the military troops high addiction rate to heroin a drug that was first infiltrating the USA. Nixen also commissioned a panal of experts to study Pot and found that it was more beneficial then harmful to society and the logical action was to legalize it. The panal was promptly desbared and the files sealed confidential by Nixen himself.
The war on weed was also largely backed by racist upperclass society when Anslinger brought it to congress he was painting a picture of insanity with reefer madness a very over acted film later dissproven by numerous experts. The tarket of war on weed was origanally a man who lost the war on alchol and needed a new place for his negetive energy and upperclass people who were unhappy whith the growing number of hispanics and specificaly mexicans in the country.

"This is not true and I would like you to provide me with evidence to prove your statement."-marine16

Okay, here goes.

"Factors involved in causing depression, include:

A history of depression in the family: It is believed that depression is passed genetically from generation to generation, although the exact way this occurs is not known.
Grief from the death or loss of a loved one.
Personal disputes, like conflict with a family member.
Physical, sexual, or emotional abuse.
Major events that occur in everyone's lives, such as moving, graduating, changing jobs, getting married or divorced, retiring, etc.
Serious illness: depressed feelings are a common reaction to many medical illnesses.
Certain medications
Substance abuse: close to 30% of people with substance abuse problems also have major depression.
Other personal problems: these may come in the forms of social isolation due to other mental illnesses, or being cast out of a family or social circle." (just wanted to add so you don't point as evidence of your case, the substance thing seems to include ALL substances, which makes sense, as if I were a heroin addict I'd be sort of depressed too)

I also suppose you've heard of something known as Postpartum Depression, a depression seen in women who have just given birth. In fact, one out of every ten women who give birth get a major case of this, 50-75 percent get a minor case. Would you suggest women with a preposition towards mental illness avoid giving birth, or for that matter holding a job, getting married or getting an education? (ie, LIVING A LIFE?).

http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/62/71508?z=1663_51206_6503_00_12

http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/10/1663_51206

I even know a girl who once had an episode at my summer camp, because she couldn't stand to be around large crowds. granted her casse is a lot rarier, but it still happens. And I don't think becoming mentally ill from weed is exactly frequent either.


"How do you know how much tobacco smokers smoke? What is your basis for your statement of half a pack a day? Your answer will be the same as mine regarding pot."-marine16

Valid point. I don't know if you have friends who are smoke cigerates or pot or not, and if you do then you're absulutly right to state how often you think the "average" person smokes because it's an educated opinion (I just hope if you do have friends who smoke pot you don't give their name to the police like Bushsupporter does.

Okay, I too have friends who smoke both pot and tobacco. I'm still interested in how you define "regular basis" but as the minor memory loss is in affect for a few weeks, it's safe to say most potheads walk around like that permently. But, as I've stressed several times before, the effects are minor at best, and don't interfer with ones intelligence.

"Footnotes are useless they are corresponded to a direct statement or fact. I highly doubt you used 92 sources for you last statement." -marine16

*sigh* Okay, let me try and make this as clear as possible. You doubted my listed site linked to medical sources, so I showed you the footnotes proving it did. Of course those weren't the footnotes for my last sentence (which I don't think was even a quote), they were the footnotes for the article I was siting from. Its indicated in the article which footnotes are for what statement (something your links actually don't show which bothers me). I didn't reprint that because I didn't want to take up even more space on this board (like I said in my last post). I figured that you would actually read the article (articles, actually) that I sited and would see the indicated footnotes for yourself.

Please go to the sites I linked to and read. Honestly I've just been copying and pasting a crazy amount of material on this thread and it's making me very tired. And fair is fair, I actually read the links you sited and checked out the footnotes.

I never said THOSE were a real smart idea either. Weed harms your body, so it's stupid.- Lydia

So many things can harm your body. Living life harms your body, mind and spirit. But it also gives you experiences you never would have had otherwise. Unless you live in a hole, your going to be exposed to all sorts of things, and considering that, marjiana is excentionally mild. Tobacco causes lung cancer, but you have to figure. Everyone eventrally dies of something. I would much rather have something take five years of old age off my life then live a little longer and have a heart attack, if I can say that I truly lived and enjoyed my life to the fullest.

I am appauled at the ignorance of the illegal substance addicts. I suppose another side affect of pot that can be added to the list is ignorance. None of those substances (Alcohol, nicotine, and especially not pot) are "benificial". That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. -Bushsupporter

A. I'm not an addict
B. I'm not an idiot. Prove to me in any way that I am.
C. Benifits of Pot: reduces nausua, increases appitite, lifts mood, increases ability to sleep, and as bauhaus said, it increases creativity and idea flow, (helps you create better music. Or poetry or art or etc, etc, etc). Not to mention the spiritual benifits, or medical help it can give cancer paitents, those with athritus or or other diseases (AND it shrinks cancer tumor cells).

Moving right along...

*runs over and gives bauhaus a friendship pony*

*takes a hit, blows smoke in marine16's face, and passes blunt to daveman* Bauhaus, wanna join in?