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If I like to kill people because it's fun, should I be allowed to do that? No. Should you be allowed to rape people because it's fun? No. And should you be allowed to drink underage because it's fun? No.

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The difference between murder and rape, and drinking, is that the sole act of drinking doesn't infringe upon anyone's rights, or harm anyone other than yourself. While murder, and rape violate people's rights to life, and not being violated.

Thank you sunshiny for backing me up.

Darkangel: The "crap" about caffine was a related subject. If you will go back and read the forum and discussion regarding it, you will see the correlation that someone made. However, I do agree, no reasonable correlation can be made between caffine and alcohol, which is why I was posting those facts. Needless to say, why can drinking be fun? What's the point of it? If your sole purpose to drink is to have fun, then you are pretty screwed up. If I like to kill people because it's fun, should I be allowed to do that? No. Should you be allowed to rape people because it's fun? No. And should you be allowed to drink underage because it's fun? No. You may think you are having the greatest time because you are totally trashed, but then when you wind up pregnant and don't know why, or get raped by someone who is drunk, then we'll see how fun it is. Let's remember, drinking and driving is not the only bad consequence of underage drinking, or irresponsible drinking. Furthermore, that's pretty sad if that is your only way to have fun. I know that you did not say that, however you also did not list other activities which would be considered fun to do while not intoxicated. I pose this to you because I know several people who can only have fun if they get sloshed. Then, I know people like myself, who obey the law, and still have fun.

Hey if any of you want to agree or disagree with me, do it to my face and instant message me. My SN is SunShinyKK.

I totally agree with everything that ItallionStallion has said on not drinking. Both my parents are cops so needless to say, I've never drunk at all. I have however, seen how many accidents drunk drivers cause, I know people who have been killed or injured because of it, and I've seen how you can drink and still be responsible enough to make good decisions. One drink won't hurt anybody if you are responsible with it. My family has BBQ's now and then where there is plenty of drinking but it's all responsible and everyone had a way to get home without putting other people in danger. I think drinking to get wasted is a stupid idea to say the least. I'm not against people who do drink some, but people who can get drunk for the fun of it are the people I have problems with. That's all.

well, all of my friends drink n the age range is from 12 - 17,neway they get drunk sometimes, but in new york city, u cant get ur lisence until ur 18...so right now i c no harm in drinking...but i do have a story 4 u...some people who use to go to my old school were drunk n they were driving...they got into an axcident n most of them didnt even get hurt, except 4 this one boy who was usually a good kid...he ended up in the hospital, in a coma...a few weeks later he died, all because of a stupid decission tht those kids made... so if u need a reason not to drink n drive, i juss gave u one.

HEy
i dont agree with drinking but im not gonna rag on the ones who do
have you read papasmurfs message on it?
well he shouldnt rag on the oens who dont drink if he doesnt want to be ragged on.

I know that everyone has their own opinion here, but I think you got it wrong. Think about it, drinking is one of the biggest teen killers in the US. You know why? Because it endangers so may other people, not just yourself. I think that drinking and having a good, RESPONSIBLE time doing it is great. I've had plenty of experience. But you got to do it safely! I may be underage, but I still am responsible enough to deal with my actions. When or if you drink it's simple, don't drive. Pick a desinated driver or stay where you are all night. There's so many ways to keep drinking and have a good time without hurting other people. I understand why you guys here think the way you do, you've had bad experiences. I have too, but don't punish or put down everyone who does it cause where not all bad! I drink reguarly but that doesn't make me a bad person. I get great grades in school and I have goals that I will achieve just like most other people.

Drinking can be fun without problems, even underage drinking, if your responsible about it! So don't blame all drinkers for your bad experiences, were not all horrible.

And what's all this crap about caffine, it has nothing to do with alcohol, even the addiction part.

So what's the point of this?
No, getting drunk or being alcoholic is not desireable or healthy. What's new?

My cousin was drunk one night when he came over to my dad's house. He ended up molesting sum 1 in tha house.

Comparing cofee and caffine to alcohol is absurd. Take a look at the facts Stalion posted. I see no one else posting facts to prove alchol is not dangerous.

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In 1987 the US Food and Drug Administration found no evidence that normal caffeine intake produced any increased risk to health. The American Medical Association came to a similar conclusion in relation to the health and safety of drinking coffee. Two studies in Norway and Hawaii found no relationship between coffee intake and cancer risk, confirming the stance of the American Cancer Society that there does not seem to be any relationship between caffeine and cancer. However, different individuals react differently to caffeine. Caffeine can cause some individuals to have difficulty sleeping at night. It can also cause some people to have fitful sleep, mood changes, heartburn, stomach upsets, or headaches. People who have a high caffeine intake may experience headaches or withdrawl symptoms if they suddenly cease getting their normal amount of caffeine. Because it is a stimulant, caffeinated beverages are not recommended for replacing body fluids lost while sweating in hot weather or hot work environments.

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taken from: http://www.pp.okstate.edu/ehs/kopykit/caffeine.htm

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Alcohol acts directly on the brain, and affects its ability to work. The effects of alcohol on the brain are quite complex, but alcohol is usually classified as a depressant. Judgment is the first function of the brain to be affected; the ability to think and make decisions becomes impaired. As more alcohol is consumed, the motor functions of the body are affected.

The effects of alcohol are directly related to the concentration (percentage) of alcohol in the blood; however, the effects vary among individuals and even in the same individual at different times. In the following description, the blood alcohol concentrations (BAC) are those that would probably be found in a person weighing about 150 pounds:
At a BAC of 0.03% (after about one ****tail, one glass of wine, or one bottle of beer), the drinker will feel relaxed and experience a slight feeling of exhilaration.

At 0.06% (after two ****tails, two glasses of wine, or two bottles of beer), the drinker will experience a feeling of warmth and relaxation; there will be a decrease of fine motor skills and he or she will be less concerned with minor irritations.

At 0.09% (after three ****tails, three glasses of wine, or three bottles of beer), reaction time will be slowed, muscle control will be poor, speech will be slurred and the legs will feel wobbly.

At 0.12% (after four ****tails, four glasses of wine, or four bottles of beer), his or her judgment will be clouded, inhibitions and self-restraint lessened, and the ability to reason and make logical decisions will be impaired.

At 0.15% (after five ****tails, five glasses of wine, or five bottles of beer), vision will be blurred, speech unclear, walking will be unsteady, and coordination impaired. At 0.18% (after six ****tails, six glasses of wine, or six bottles of beer), all of the drinker's behavior will be impaired, and he or she will find it difficult to stay awake.

At a BAC of about 0.30% alcohol in the blood (after 10 to 12 drinks), the drinker will be in a semi-stupor or deep sleep. Most people are not able to stay awake to reach a BAC higher than 0.30%.

If the BAC reaches 0.50% the drinker is in a deep coma and in danger of death. As the alcohol level reaches 1% in the blood, the breathing center in the brain becomes paralyzed and death occurs.

In many states a BAC of 0.10% is considered legal evidence that a driver is intoxicated; some states use a BAC of 0.08%. In some European countries the legal BAC is as low as 0.05%

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taken from: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cas2/fact15.html

Took me a little while to do some research, however, I did. To me, this shows the damaging effects of alcohol as opposed to the "damaging" effects of coffee/caffine. So, with normal intakes of caffine, you're fine! And yeah, once your 21, with normal intakes of alcohol, you're fine! However, the effects of too much alcohol consumption are worse than the effects of too much caffine consumption.

I can't believe anyone feels the need to drink to have a good time. My father is an ahcoholic and my step dad is too. They both beat my mother, when they drank. My step dad almost killed my mom, so if think about this before you drink. You not only hurt yourself physically/meantally you hurt your friends too. If you dont come home at a certin time they could be wondering if you died or something. Drinking is just stupid.

I could not speak for everyone but I would say a large percentage of the teens who drink do it because their friends do it and because it's fun. If you drink you begin to look to older friends or brothers and sisters who are 21 and older because you know they can buy you alcohol. And as for why the public accepts it, I dunno. Right now I'm 18, and last summer I went to Europe for several weeks, while I was there w/ my classmates we were allowed to go and drink...we could drink at dinner, and it's a totally different culture there. They view alcohol as a beverage instead of something to drink just to get you drunk! That trip really put into perspective the difference in culture, I think if the U.S. were to lower the drinking age now, it would be a BIG mistake teens wouldn't know what to do, it would most likely still be taken advantage of. Now, my parents let me every so often at a family party or at home have a glass of wine or a couple beers. It's no biggie now, as long is I'm not endangering others they are pretty fine w/ it. But w/ the whole party scene, I think it's very difficult to stop it. If I go to a party and I know there's going to be alcohol, I'll ususally stay the night or not drink at all, and drive my friends home. I think the key is safety, teens need to be smart and think about the consequences before getting in cars after drinking....you never know what could happen.

This is one of the reasons I am so adament about underage drinking. My room mate and long time friend went to a baseball game yesterday. With him were four other of my friends. Periodically throughout the game, they would leave to go get booze out of their truck. All underage. Also, in the stadium, although they were all legal, they were chewing tobacco. Personally, I think that in itself is disgusting. But regardless this disturbes me. How can people be like this? It's like a pleasure for them to go and get wasted. Now I am worried because the school that I am going to for the Fall semester has a strict rule governing alcohol usage on campus. Basically if any has been found in my dorm room, even if I haven't been drinking, both my room mate and myself will be thrown off campus.

See, alcohol not only affects your life but the life of others that you are in close contact with. I am also led to believe that these teens left the game intoxicated, and drove home. However I am not sure. This in itself is willingly endangering their lives and the lives of others. This is why underage drinking is bad and is illegal.

i think it's ok for a teen to have a very small drink like a taste of wine if it's at something like a wedding and they are being monitored. like during the bridal toast but after that they should stick to non alcoholic beverages. and only for 16 or 17 and up would what i said apply. younger than that should stick to non alcoholic beverages all the way around. if there's ununsupervised party alcohol should be locked up and the adult (parent) should have the key or the combination so there's no access. there's lots of good party drinks without alcohol in them. an easy one is a lemon-lime soda mixed with fruit punch...

i live in a family with lots of alcoholics...most of them have learned to drink in moderation. I only have one uncle that has ever had any problems with alcohol and its because his pancreus is loosing some function or had a disease or something but wasnt just alcohol related (stress!!!!!! its horrible). HE cant drink anymore, wait correction hes not suppose to drink anymore but he is willing to take that risk then...why? because he wants to. And even the members of my family that arent alcoholic drink casually. no one has ever been arrested or ticketed (minus my uncle who got drunk and hit a tree after his wife died but there was purpose to that and it was only a ticket). The people I know that abuse alcohol are those people that are just given it when they are underage by other people that have no idea on how to control themselves either. If they had drank with responsible parents through their childhood they would learn how much they could take and they wouldnt do just because they werenot suppose to.

not everyone that drinks is addicted

them an apple to eat...even if they had eaten the apple with caffine it would have been a one time dose what is wrong with that.

and Itallion, the self help thing was sort of a joke, but it is also a parallel to what you are saying. You dont want help, you dont need help and these people you are telling to quit drinking feel the same way. They might drink responsibly and nothing will go wrong. Its even good for you to drink one glass of something a day (i remember hearing it on the news a while ago).

liltrumpetgirl, although your article proved interesting, not everything is completely true. (All from Encarta online) There isn't a proven link between caffeine and cancer, scientists are not yet sure and have to continue doing tests. Caffeine is used to treat heachaches, especially migraines because it stimulates the nerves.
And the monkey thing, that soo cruel. But don't start me on animal rights.
ItallionStallion, you never know. I had a pretty bad addiction to caffiene. I was irritable as hell, and had headaches that were ten times worse than a hangover. I could barely move. I never have had an alcohol addiction, so I can't really compare.

*outspokenme*

"I find it very sad that you people support allowing other's, of your fellow man, to commit these terrible acts to themselves."


I just find it very sad that people support authoritarian ideas under the guise of "safety" and protection of the population.


"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
-Thomas Jefferson