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Originally posted by clpo13:
Better idea: get rid of NCLB so failing schools can actually get adequate funding to improve. Besides, a voucher system would result in more overcrowding as everyone sends their kids to the same good schools. Seems smarter to improve existing schools.

The supply of private schools is not fixed. As demand for private schools increases, so will their supply.

Just look at charter schools and see the large number of schools that have been created in response to demand for more and better choices in schooling. As of May 2005, almost nearly 3,400 charter schools were open in the U.S., all of which have been started in just the past 13 years. Of that number, about 94 percent are “start-ups”— entirely new schools with added capacity.


School choice turns the static education monopoly into a market that is very responsive to demand.

Private schools don’t have a lot of empty seats because they have to be efficient; they maintain enough seats for the number of students they believe will enroll. With 89 percent of all students now enrolled in public schools, it would be ridiculous for private schools to run classrooms with nine empty desks for every one occupied desk. No school could afford to run that way.

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My father in law wouldn't get paid more if his company didn't offer him special stock options, they can't afford to. But if they didn't offer them, he wouldn't work there.

Saying that someone wouldn't get paid more if they didn't receive something doesn't negate said thing as being compensation.

That's right but bis stock options are different from salary, they are bonus incentives. They are even taxed differently.

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You marginalize PBS and then link me to a show you love (a good show I do say) which airs on PBS.

No marginalizing, I simply said that there are some real crackpot things that air on that channel and your taxes go to them. The are normal shows that air as well. I don't have a problem with federal funding of PBS just like I don't have a problem with vouchers.

Better idea: get rid of NCLB so failing schools can actually get adequate funding to improve. Besides, a voucher system would result in more overcrowding as everyone sends their kids to the same good schools. Seems smarter to improve existing schools.

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Military members would not get paid more if there was no GI Bill.

My father in law wouldn't get paid more if his company didn't offer him special stock options, they can't afford to. But if they didn't offer them, he wouldn't work there.

Saying that someone wouldn't get paid more if they didn't receive something doesn't negate said thing as being compensation.

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I guess you are in favor of getting rid of the GI Bill and paying military more.

That's idiotic. I don't think that.

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It wouldn't work, but I know you hate the idea of federal funds going to things you don't like (except the NEA or PBS or NPR).

You marginalize PBS and then link me to a show you love (a good show I do say) which airs on PBS.

False. Military members would not get paid more if there was no GI Bill. It is a bonus incentive paid through the government. They Feds don't cut a check to them and say spend this on school. They pay the school directly. I guess you are in favor of getting rid of the GI Bill and paying military more. It wouldn't work, but I know you hate the idea of federal funds going to things you don't like (except the NEA or PBS or NPR).

In all seriousness, you should watch this episode of Independent Thinking. It is a pretty good one, partially on this subject.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=27397500

For those of you who don't know, Independent Thinking is a show on the local PBS staion in Denver, CO. It is hosted by Jon Caldera, head of the Independence Institute, a Colorado based conservative think tank.

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The G.I bill funds plenty of "crackpot" curriculi

The GI bill is part of the general compensation for their service. It is relative to their paycheck. You don't get to decide what they spend their money on or what kind of university they use their GI bill on.

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I agree that they work- they work at promoting crackpot curriculum with federal dollars.

So, I guess you don't agree.

The G.I bill funds plenty of "crackpot" curriculi... and it does it with...GASP.. federal dollars. A lot of government dollars go to crazy things.

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I also notice you did not rebut my main argument

Your main argument is not antithetical to mine. Once again, I will say:

You pay plenty of taxes on services you may or may not use. You don't get your portion of military funding back if you decide to buy a bunch of guns and assume your own protection responsibilities.

I agree that they work- they work at promoting crackpot curriculum with federal dollars.

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You still haven't told me why I should pay for you voodoo schools.

You still haven't told me why I have to pay for your failing schools.

I also notice you did not rebut my main argument which is: Vouchers work, pure and simple.

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o, if I want to take my kid and put him in another school, I shoulnd't have to pay for your crappy public schools.

You pay plenty of taxes on services you may or may not use. You don't get your portion of military funding back if you decide to buy a bunch of guns and assume your own protection responsibilities.

You still haven't told me why I should pay for you voodoo schools.

Cool. I don't want to fund a bunch of entrenched "thinkers" who want to hand out condoms like candy to kids. So, if I want to take my kid and put him in another school, I shoulnd't have to pay for your crappy public schools.

The Supreme Court has ruled that voucher programs are constitutional. Can you find me any example of a true voucher program that has failed kids (either that stayed in public shools or left)? I doubt that you can. Voucher programs work. That is the bottom line.

By the way, I am all for busing. Fine with me. Voucher help with diversity. The current system hinders it. And from what I can tell, you don't think the current system needs reform except for more charter schools (which the unions hate).

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Yes, if parents want their kids to learn that, fine with me. If parents want to give thier kids a wiccan education, fine with me.

Me too, but I'm not funding it.

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Liberals are all about choice, except in education. My God, the unions don't even like open enrollment periods.

I think charter schools represent choice within the public school system. Conservatives are the ones against choice. Busing is about choice, but you don't want the brown kids sullying your suburban schools.

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Liberals hate monopolies, except in education.

There is a full marketplace of education. I support that. But I don't have to fund it. Your statement doesn't really make any sense. Please clarify,.

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Liberals claim to support efforts to raise minorities and the poor out of poverty, except when it comes to educating the black and poor kids.

See above: Section on busing and suburban housewives afraid of brown people.

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Liberals claim to want the government out of personal lives, except when it comes to education.

Once again, freedom to do something and funding to do something aren't the same thing.

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Simple things like creationism?

I see you have discounted my whole post.

Yes, if parents want their kids to learn that, fine with me. If parents want to give thier kids a wiccan education, fine with me.

Liberals are all about choice, except in education. My God, the unions don't even like open enrollment periods.

Liberals hate monopolies, except in education.

Liberals claim to support efforts to raise minorities and the poor out of poverty, except when it comes to educating the black and poor kids.

Liberals claim to want the government out of personal lives, except when it comes to education.

And you love free markets. Not in education.

It is really quite sad.

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High school should be about simple learning.

Simple things like creationism?

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not to promote bastard science like creationism and don't have sex because boys are icky and Jesus says so sex ed.

I am in total agreement with you. I think sex ed should be just that, a class about how to have great sex. They're gonna do it anyway, so at least it can be pleasurable (and safe).

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Without the thinkers teaching the ideas, the ideas become mired in politics and punditry.

Silly FML, elementry school, middle school, and high school should not be full of academics and ivory tower types. It should be full of people who want to teach basic facts to kids. I don't want thinkers in middle school, thinks indoctrinate not teach. College is about indoctrination (there is choice there by the way). High school should be about simple learning.

I tried to add this under the edit function but was not allowed-


If you and your type that want to undermine the government can pervert our public schools like you have (see creationism and don't have sex because boys are icky), I can only imagine how it will pervert the minds you claim to educate when our collective resources start funding curriculum nested in puritanical, archaic and bellied ideology rather than intellectual freedom and honesty.

It takes federal money, set aside for education, and allows it to go to whatever crackpot curriculum your school employs. Education dollars are supposed to enhance our nations knowledge base, not to promote bastard science like creationism and don't have sex because boys are icky and Jesus says so sex ed.

The teachers unions which you marginalize, may not be perfect, but they allow the academie to influence the education process. Without the thinkers teaching the ideas, the ideas become mired in politics and punditry.

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are forced to go into the public schools for what has proven to be a low quality education.

There are few public school systems in the country without opportunities for students who wish to excel. If the student doesn't fit within the mainstream, there are charter schools than cater to more specific educational styles.