If you would pay attention and follow the lines of discussion, you'd realize that I usually have to get pushed pretty far by lunacy (i.e. someone suggesting that world really is only 10,000 years old, just to avoid admitting that there are inacuracies in the bible) before I start getting personal and defensive, which I just apologized for on another board, and will now do here. I'm sorry for lashing out in a personal manner, it's my least favorite thing about myself.

Let me go back to second grade and use my "I" statements: I think that the scientific evidence that contradicts a literal interpretation of the Bible is substantial, so much so that I'm willing to flat out refute the validity of the Bible. I think that arguing science versus religion is totally pointless...it's apples and oranges. I think that I was just responding to a claim that the Bible had never been proven wrong by proving it wrong...in my mind, the task is done, the Bible is worng--but I also think that it is clear that the Bible will never be proven wrong to people who are unwilling to allow it to be. This is okay with me. Of course Dumars is right...we could do this all day, but neither one of us is going to convince the other of anything, especially given that I let this turn into a bit of a crusade on my part to prove my point, that the validity of the Bible is questionable at best.

Again I apologize for my defensiveness, but I am passionately against organized religion (even as I gladly admit to belief in a formerly existing higher power).

quote:

---

It looks to me as though science is your god.

Yes, everything can be proven through science.

Yup.

---

As opposed to the Bible, which proves NOTHING?

Joey, I don't want to get involved in your spat with Brooke, but don't insult people who believe in science.

A lot more can be proved by science than any of the things in the Bible, which have to be taken completely on faith.

Brooke, maybe you wouldn't get so mad at one of the Christians "attacking" you or "insulting" you if your know-it-all little self wouldn't do it ...


...I mean, seriously - you think you know every dang thing - yet you know so little.

It looks to me as though science is your god.

Yes, everything can be proven through science.

Yup.

And Dumars, you're completely stupid.

And retarded.

(sarcasm*

Because if you have an actaul documented learning impairment, I apologize most sincerely for what I'm about to say.

The inchoherent and just palin stupid things in the last post almost make me not even want to discuss this anymore. You are literally so stupid that it is a tough call as to whether or not arguing with you is a waste of my time, but fortunately, I have time to waste.

I don't even know how to begin to approach this...you have just refuted photosynthesis, the entire disciplines of paleontology, paleobotony, and astronomy, and done a good bit of damage to my belief that human beings have innate common sense, as you clearly have none. I'm in shock that someone would want to work so hard against the impulses of human intelligence.

I'm more than willing to concede to the possibility of something greater than the universe, something that put it all in motion. I find it highly implausible though that it's an all-powerful God who still hangs around and sticks her nose in human affairs...the universe is so expansive that I doubt she'd waste her time on us anyway, but I will never subscribe to a dogma that produces idiots like you.

It's one thing to believe in something and have faith in it; my values and my core sense of right and wrong are probably not that different than yours (though it pains me to say it)...but it's quite another thing to throw away all reason in defense of that belief. And as usual, your spelling and grammar are almost as bad as your logic.

Well I am so happy you have studied the subject at hand but everyone of your responses and reasons for why the bible is wrong are nothing more that speculations. The scientific community has never been able to prove that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. I know they keep saying that carbon testing is there measure but even that has been proven by unbelieving scientist as wrong and unpredictable. They did an experiment about 6 years ago with turtle shells and one group of scientist placed 10 turtle scells in the groud and then dug them up 6 years later and sent them to a lab in virginia and had them carbon tested and the scientist's at the lab stated that those turtle shells were about 2 million years old according to the carbon tests but in fact the shells were only about 7 to 10 years old. So there goes the oh our planet is millions of years old reasoning right out the window. Now as for facts,support your arguments with facts not possibilities. Even the scientific community has issues with proving reaserch and todate no other community has had more difficulty in proving there reasoning due to the fact that they them selves are using experimentation which is curently being developed and yet to be proven. Thats why they do all the research and experiments but in the end there is no fool proof experiment that can tell us about the world we live in only speculated experiments and guestimated reasoning. Now as for the god can lie response, your right god can lie but he does not due to the fact that lying is a sin and all sin is equal and in the bible it states that sin is unable to enter into the kingdom of heaven so there for I would have to say that you are 0 for 2 but we can keep going! Now I am wondering how you can support your argument that the earth was not created in 6 days? Where is your proof or are you using another speculated scientific reason? How do you know we wouldnt be able to see stars farther away due to there age? Please I am just waiting for your resoning as to who can tell how old a star is. Do they have birthdays or again is it another posibility that someone is trying to pass off as a fact? Now as for the whole plants before the sun I always thought that light was created on the first day! Now I will give you the bible as a guide for christians because that is what it is a tool for teaching and a guideline to abide by. So that like what 5 to 1. Lets keep going I can do this all day!

Well, if anyone knew anything at all about the Bible, you'd know that 1) Moses was instructed by God to set out laws, certain rituals, moral codes, etc.

And if anyone knew anything (i.e., Christians), then they'd know the Sabbath isn't a Sunday - it's a Saturday.


And if anyone knew anything, the New Testament writers based everything SOLELY on the Torah (first five books of the OT) and then the rest of the OT.

Sorry, I'm just now getting into a new church - er synagogue - and this deception within the Christian church is just now being revealed to me.

There is no split between Jews and Gentiles - we're all on the "same side" so to speak.

And a church that teaches only the New Testament is completely missing out - because Moses and the prophets spoke and wrote about Jesus in the Old Testament!

"Before Abraham was, I am," saith the Lord.


There are billions of different translations and views on the Bible, but what Christians don't seem to understand is that the laws and moral codes and festivals and holy days were set out in the Torah.

Christians can strike down homosexuality or abortion, yet they mostly go to church on Sundays - which is NOT the seventh day - Saturday is.

I'll have more to say, but for now, since the topic is the Bible, it's only best that we realize that the Old Testament isn't, hasn't and won't be outdated.

What do you mean the Bible has never been proven wrong? The following comes from http://www.free-researchpapers.com/dbs/b7/rcj104.shtml

It's pretty simple logic.

"The Christian Bible says the words of God and states that God is omnipotent and cannot lie. If you think about that statement you realize that if God is omnipotent then he should have the power to lie. The error could not be corrected by any additions made to the bible throughout the last two centuries. In order to fix that error and other scientific errors, too many changes would have to be made to the Bible. The Bible says that God created Earth in 6 days about 10,000 years ago. Clearly Earth could not have been created in 6 days about 10,000 years ago. If Earth is merely 10,000 years old then how do you explain the dinosaurs that existed millions of years ago? Scientists discovered life fossils that date back billions of years, even the skeletons of modern humans date back before the time of Adam and Eve. If we were to believe the Bible, then we would have to believe that God created Earth before the stars, which is impossible. If the stars were created 10,000 years ago, we wouldn't be able to see stars that were more than 10,000 light years away. That's because if a star were further away than 10,000 light years, the light from that star wouldn't have got here yet. Our galaxy alone is about 100,000 light years across. If the sayings of the Bible were true, we wouldn't be able to see but 1/10th the way across our own galaxy. We surely wouldn't be able to see other galaxies or galactic clusters or know that the universe is expanding. Therefore the Bible is just plain wrong Our modern technology has proven the Bible wrong. Meaning that if God exists, he didn't write the Bible and the Bible is not his word. If the Bible is the word of God and the Bible is wrong, then God is wrong. If God can't be wrong, then the Bible, which is wrong, can't be the word of God. One little considered fact comes to mind: men who lived thousands of years ago wrote the Bible. The authors had limited knowledge of the nature of the universe and wrote the Bible based on what they believed at the time. They didn't know the Earth had a round shape and orbited the Sun, or that the Earth is a star among billions of stars in the galaxy that is but one galaxy in billions of galaxies that have existed for billions of years. To the authors of the Bible, the world appeared to be flat and God lived in the sky. They didn't know that the sky is composed of a thin layer of gas that surrounds the surface of this planet. We have been to the sky and we have been above the sky and God isn't living there. Other glitches appear in the Bible such as the error in the order that God created plants on the third day of creation and created the sun on the fourth day. For those who missed second grade science class, plants require sunlight to exist, otherwise knows as photosynthesis. No sun, no plants. Another question comes to mind: why would a benevolent God create pathogenic organisms whose sole function seems to be to cause disease and suffering? God must have wanted pathogenic viruses in the world: because they exist today, God must have brought them on Noah’s ark. Why would he do such a thing is he’s infinite goodness, which is the meaning of ”God”? If God created everything, then He have to have had created himself. Since God could not have created himself because He wasn’t in existence to do so in the first place, the God theory is flawed. If the Bible is the word of God and He does not lie, then how can such an omniscient being make such foolish errors? In my opinion, the Bible was created to tell believers what is right and wrong. The words of the Bible created fear in believers by giving examples of mass destruction or punishments done by God because of the behavior of people, and by creating the concept of hell. Humans created a god in order to explain existence and have hope that someone is looking over them. The concept of God gave an easy answer to people’s questions. Why did my son die? He died because God had a plan for him, and decided that he should die in the hospital 2 days after he was born. A scientific explanation would be that he died because his heart failed due to the disorder that was caused by his mother’s excessive drinking during pregnancy. Before science existed, to answer questions people had nothing to turn to except their belief in God. Since people questioned things long before science was ever created, practically the whole population of this planet had developed a belief in god. And since “God made it so,” sounds better than “I have no clue,” God became the new explanation for all things that were previously unexplained."

Youve got a question and we have the answer. Todate the bible is the only book in the history of mankind that has never and I mean NEVER been proven wrong! Many have tryied but none have succeeded. The scientific community has tryied for years to discredit the bible but no one has been able to prove the bible to be wrong, that is why so many christians are sure of the bible and its importance to the world. Sure the bible was writen and translated by men but it also states that in the bible that the one true god is the one who communicated what the men were to write and teach about in the world then and know.

I think it's great to read the Bible...as long as it's with the understanding that what you are reading is a piece of historical literature, not a testament of fact.

And I have a question that no one seems to be willing to answer for me...how do Christians know that they are right? How do they know that their Bible is the one true will of the one true God? What about all the other world religions that bear little if any similarlity to Judeo-Christian theology? Somebody on another topic wrote a post to the effect of Greek and Roman mythology being stupid because they just "made up" their religion...but doesn't it probably seem to non-Christians like the Christians just "made up" Christianity? Plagues of locusts? The parting of the Red Sea? Voices from the sky? Sounds like mythology to me.

Alright lets add up the totals now from the judges its 4 for the bible and 14 against, but wait this is where the public comes in and now its up to you the public to pick who will be the next winner on Star search! Come on now people we need to work on our tact here. I was always under the impression that we were suppossed to teach about the bible not bash people who have not been christians or have questions and different beliefs.

Yes I have, but obviouly didn't payed that much attention as you. Must be cuz I dont like it.

Teddy:
Hi there...I just wanted to let you know that if you were still interested in getting answers for whatever questions you have I'd love to hear your questions.

Shorty:
Just wanted to point out that right after accusing others of not reading and being familiar witht the Bible, you said that the psalms are not in the old testament which is obviously incorrect. Have you read the Bible?

Books written by a bunch of guys, telling me how to live my life? Uh, count me out.

Hi,
I read my Bible everyday. I have already read through the entire thing. To me it is the owner's manual for human beings just like a manual for a car our creator gave us a manual to help keep us going. The stuff written is still relevant you just have to learn how to understand what the different wording means. I use different translations and the Strong's concordance to figure out the point that is being made.
Trinity

Have you people actually READ the bible?? not just the psalms they read on church but the Old Testament???

I believe in the bible as what it is, the Old Testament is a book written by a people with very prehistoric ideas, and most parts are a way of explaining things, like the creation of man and woman.

The New Testament is alright, it's easy to nor understand some parts because well I guess it was hard for this people to explain things theyd never saw.

And though im Catholic, I don't live my life based on what the bible says, or what the church says.

I believe the Bible was written as a way to explain the world when science wasn't around. I believe the Bible's basic codes of behavior are in general good and worth following. I don't believe the Bible was actually written by God. I believe it was written by men who were trying to explain the mysteries of life.

I believe in the bible 1000%. My reasoning is this,it has never been proven wrong.

I don't read the Bible much beacuse it's a bit hard to understand. But, I do hear stories that come from the Bible and I read the Bible a couple of times myself and I believe in what they say, like how the earth and heavens were created, I believe that. I still have many questions that people seem not able to answer but mostly I do believe it because anything is prossble when it comes to the Eminence God. So what I'm saying is that I'm open to know the truth.
Well, Have a nice, wonderful, cheerful day N Bye
<RuByZ><Cindy>

Hi,
I believe in the Bible. Word for word. The Bible is inspired by God and is the Word of God.
Trinity