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Werent you one of the biggest adovcates for a Palestinian State?

yes, its one big hypocracy isn't it?

The Palestinians are fighting an occupation...the Kurds are just radicals, they have no oppression in Turkey....30,000 dead since the 80s, that is beyond terror.

And, i believe all attacks must cease in Palestine before Israel considers withdrawels.

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I also think we need to reopen talks with Iran.

Reopen talks with Iran? The Iranians have rejected every proposal that the EU-3 has put forward. They don't seem to want to comply wiht what the international community wants them to.
Under the proposal put forward by the EU-3 (France, Germany, and Britian), Iran would be able to use nuclear plants for power, and other economical needs, but that the Iranians must give up centrifuges and other "questionable" aspects of their programs, that can be used to make a nuclear weapon.

I believe it is time to take Iran to the UN Security Council. They don't want to comply. That is obvious and is time to take it to the next step.

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Then why in your proposal, did you suggest that we should leave iraq to 'fend for themselves'?

Sorry, that's not what I meant. I think that is what would happen if we pulled out. I do think we need to support and protect the Kurds. I also think we need to reopen talks with Iran.

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they deserve recognition in both countries, turkey and iraq, which they have. A kurdish state cannot be accepted while radical Kurds carry out terrorist acts.

Werent you one of the biggest adovcates for a Palestinian State?

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First of all, it really wasn't my plan. It was a proposal. All plans have reprocussions. I don't know enough about the situation to have a serious plans. The current adminsitration is doing absolutely nothing. How is the situation improving? What is your particular plan?

Ok Your proposal. To suggest that the Bush Administration is doing nothingin this war is at least, an exxageration of the facts and a gross misrerpresntation of our country. As anyone will tell you, our defense budget is double the next foriegn defense budget competitor. WE pour so much money into that country.

This from the associated press:

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Jim Crum, a senior US official involved in Iraq reconstruction, said despite security problems he believed there had been great progress in rebuilding Iraq and he pointed to the more than 600 schools rebuilt using US funds.

"I think it has been done in a wartime environment with a very intelligent enemy that is continually adjusting to attack our progress and that of the Iraqis," said Crum, head of the Washington branch of the Project and Contracting Office, which is in charge of many US-funded rebuilding projects

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Of course not. Did I ever say that? I'm simply meant that it would have helped. In Afghanistan, there was the northern alliance. It was not a good idea to fire these men. They have weapons and are angry that the US took their jobs.

No you didnt say that. That is why I was inquiring. I didn't know. according to General Myers, we have 178,000 Iraiq military forces that have been trained.

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http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=345
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/vincent200508020823.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2005080801147.html
to name a few.

Fair enough.

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I agree that Iraq would become a puppet state. Iran would undoubtedly take over.

Then why in your proposal, did you suggest that we should leave iraq to 'fend for themselves'?

My current analysis of the War in Iraq:

The achievements of Iraq are undeniable. Whether it is building schools, opening up hospitals, voting, or routing out terrorists, we have come a long way from that fateful moment when Saddam’s statue was taken down in the Baghdad.
Political achievements are good. But what is most striking to the US citizens is the death toll. That’s what is driving this negative sentiment towards the war. These new polls come anew after the bloodiest week in Iraq, and of course people are not going to feel to terribly positive about this war. But deaths are going to happen they are to be expected. They are costly and irreplaceable - but that is one of the ugly truths of war.

However if you look at the terrorist situation, the threat is not widespread as some in the media might have you think. Northern Kurdistan and southern Iraq are both largely stable with hardly any terrorist attacks. Currently there are only two hotspots that come to mind that are plaguing US Marines and Iraqi soldiers witch are Haditha and the longstanding situation in Baghdad. But before I talk more in depth on these two cities, look at recent tactical and military moves in recent history:

Tikirit, Iraq. If you will remember at the beginning of the war when initial military campaigns were in full force, that Saddam Hussein’s hometown, Tikrit, was supposed to be the site of a great bloodbath of American soldiers by the effective maneuvers of Saddam’s Special Republican Guard. We saw how far that prediction went.

Basrah, southern Iraq. This was once the center of the terrorist insurgency in Iraq near the end of the initial military maneuvers when war was clearly over. Many lives were lost here, but the British, who are in charge of southern Iraq, effectively neutralized the threats there.

Al-Sadr City western Iraq. Here is where radical cleric Muqtaddah Al-Sadr wreaked havoc throughout the city for a period. After weeks of bloody fights, and several failed ceasefires, the radical cleric stood down allowing control of the city to Allied forces.

Fallujah, central Iraq. I know the majority of you remember this city because you used to give me grief about it. Fallujah was the epitome of the American defeat in Iraq remember? What ended up happening? We routed the terrorists. The city has been neutralized.

Baghdad, central/eastern Iraq. Now Baghdad has been a problem in Iraq ever since the war ended. It will probably be a problem until the terrorists in Iraq are defeated. Recently, however, a new campaign called Operation: Quick Strike has been initiated constituting 1,000 U.S. Marines and Iraqi Soldiers, including raids and intense firefighting.

Haditha, central/eastern Iraq. This is the current terrorist hotspot. It is also the site of the bloodiest losses in American lives since the beginning of the war as the NY Times will be happy to tell you. But if we are to take these other cities as precedents, it wont be long until this city is neutralized.

As far as the drafting of the Constitution goes, I believe they may be moving a little too fast and may be rushing the process.

General Cornwallis, the British general, surrendered to Continental forces in 1783. Correct? The Constitution of the United States was ratified in 1787. Correct? They had four years to write this document. Did they not?
While we had four years to write our Constitution, we’ve given Iraq four months . The drafting of the document that will govern this fledgling democracy is not something to be taken lightly and should be done carefully.

For any questions, please follow this link to the latest press briefing from Secretary of Defense, Don Rumsfeld and General Myers.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050809-secdef3642.html

they deserve recognition in both countries, turkey and iraq, which they have. A kurdish state cannot be accepted while radical Kurds carry out terrorist acts.

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Do you see the cost and the repercussions of your plan?

First of all, it really wasn't my plan. It was a proposal. All plans have reprocussions. I don't know enough about the situation to have a serious plans. The current adminsitration is doing absolutely nothing. How is the situation improving? What is your particular plan?

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Do you honestly believe that the reaason there is resistance to the US is because the army was disbanded?

Of course not. Did I ever say that? I'm simply meant that it would have helped. In Afghanistan, there was the northern alliance. It was not a good idea to fire these men. They have weapons and are angry that the US took their jobs.

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Ive heard reports tht it was restored

I heard other reports. http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=345
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/vincent200508020823.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2005080801147.html
to name a few.

I agree that Iraq would become a puppet state. Iran would undoubtedly take over.

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the kurds do not deserve a home state, they are terrorists

They were victims. Sadaam hated the Kurds. They deserve their own country.

the kurds do not deserve a home state, they are terrorists, a conflict involving the pkk has left 30,000 dead in Turkey since the 80s, and until those attacks stop there can be no question of a Kurdish state. They are accaepted as equals in Turkey, if you live in that country you are a Turk, just as the Italians, Spanish or Irish are considered Americans in the US, also a Kurdish homeland has noweher to go, they want South East Turkey and Northern Iraq, South East Turkey is out of the question and Mosul should historically belong to Turkey anyway if you ever read about that topic.

I'm against a Kurdish state in any way, it would bring too much instability.

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I thought it was risky and unjustified considering that Iraq never attacked or threatened the US

Have you seen my evidences?

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. First, the Iraqi army should not have been disbandoned. It was not a smart idea in that it pissed off a ton of men with weapons. Also, I would have put a lot of money into improving society immediatly. I would have restored electricity and other neccesities to prove that the US was better than Sadaam.

Do you honestly believe that the reaason there is resistance to the US is because the army was disbanded?
What proof do you have that the electricity grid has nto been restored? Ive heard reports tht it was restored. Schools have been rebuilt. Hospitals. Everything.

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So many people now want to withdraw from Iraq completely, but honestly I don't see how.

Really. Polls suggest that while Bush's approval numbers have been down, but those being polled know the cost of leaving Iraq too early. Bush has gotten that point across.

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I would support the Kurds and leave the Sunnis and Shiites to fend for themselves.

I like the kurds and i would support their own free state; they've been there for milennia. At the moment, however, we have other pressing matters.
By leaving the ****tes and the Sunni to fend for themselves, it would alienate what Islamic support we have right now. It would compromise any other attempt we made in the advancement in the War on Terror.
If young Iranians knew that we would overthrow the Ayatollah and then just leave, I dont think they'd be too interested in our help.
If the Lebanese knew that we would just destroy Bashir Assad and his regime and simply leave, I don't think they would be too keen for our help. It would stop the underlying freedom movemnt in the Middle East and it would compromise everything we have already worked for; not to mention, it would be a spit on the lives lost in the war in iraq. They would have been for nothing.

If we left he Sunnis and the Shiite to themselves, there is no doubt that the Iranian mullahs, would extend a grappling hand into Iraq and make them a puppet state. We would then have a worse situation than before.

If the terrorists knew we would give up a war after losing less than 2000 men, they'd know that if we attacked Iran, all they would have to do is have a couple of bloody attacks and we would leave, conceding to the terrorists and their demands. We would have no credible standing in fighting Islamic Extremism.

This emboldens terror everywhere. If we show one falter in our approach to this war, the terrorists will have know thst they have won. I dont want to give them that chance.

Do you see the cost and the repercussions of your plan?

I've been wanting to vent about the war in Iraq for a long time. So, I'm going to do it now. I never supported the war from the start. I thought it was risky and unjustified considering that Iraq never attacked or threatened the US.

I thought that many errors where made throughout the war as well. First, the Iraqi army should not have been disbandoned. It was not a smart idea in that it pissed off a ton of men with weapons. Also, I would have put a lot of money into improving society immediatly. I would have restored electricity and other neccesities to prove that the US was better than Sadaam.

Now, I feel that the situation may be too far gone to rectify. Even if Kerry had been elected, I think that the situation would still be a mess. I don't blame Bush specifically, but rather his staff for failing to develop a clear reconsturction plan. So many people now want to withdraw from Iraq completely, but honestly I don't see how. The US has basically destroyed an already messed-up country. I don't see how we leave. The saying 'you broke it, you own' applies. Right now, I would try to divide the country. I would support the Kurds and leave the Sunnis and Shiites to fend for themselves.

How are we going to solve the Iraq issue? Support for the war is decreasing everyday.

oh thats nice of you.
Ive been doing pretty ok. Im in Orlando!

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You know me, i just cant let "Red...U ARE AN IDIOT." go unchallenged.

LOL! Yeah, that's true. God love ya Red.

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Where have you been?

Oh, you know, trying to help all my spazzic girlfriends with their guy problems. And maybe dealing with a few of my own.

Just kidding bout the last bit. But the rest is all typical. I'm like, part mother part therapist for my friends. Which is kind of ironic considering I'm probably the most screwed up one out of all of us.

Anyways, how've you been? Holding your own pretty well?

You know me, i just cant let "Red...U ARE AN IDIOT." go unchallenged.
Yeah you have/ Where have you been?

AND THIS ONE!

Red, have I REALLY been gone that long?!

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redrepublican, i just got a few words for ya, WOW U ARE AN IDIOT. can u stop being so close minded for 0.2 seconds and try to see that NOT ALL PPL HATE AMERICA, i'm and IRAQI-AMERICAN, yes i've lived here all my life (16yrs to be exact) my famliy in IRAQ DOESNT HATE AMERICA, so get outta that hole u've been livin in and get educated b/f u say something that may REALLY show ur ignorance.

I dont know what you are talking about. I dont even know you. I didnt accuse your family of hating America. i never said that all Iraqis hate America. I dont even remember making a statement close to that.
Why dont you learn how to debate logically, and stop ramming words down my throat?

I agree, there is simply too much diversity and vastness of terrorism across the globe for making war on one or 2 states efective in dealing with the problem on a whole, terrorism defies Westphalia, it defies commonly accepted laws of warfare and as such the issue needs to be identified as a 21st century problem and dealt with in a way which doesnt involve the possibility to use terrorism as an excuse to further supress people (as is the result in Palestine and Chechnya).

terrorism transcends national borders, it is called international terrorism for a reason, no matter how many countries you invade, if a group or cell has no governmental affiliation then they will be able to seek out support from peoples willing to support their causes. Ending tyranic control in Iraq has meant the nation is now flooded with terrorists, where before the country has been proven to have had no links to Al-Qaeda.

If America is afterall, trying to promote and uphold liberal ideas of freedom and democracy worldwide, they should be using their resources to help the people of the middle east and people of other conflicts around the globe to overcome their problems, as a revolution led by a native will hold far greater power in the long run than a revolution by foreigners.

I agree with everything you just said riskbreaker...The fact is that, no the truth of the matter is that the U.S. Gov't. claims we will fight to counter the terrorist threat as a whole; but this cannot be done, and won't be done. It's like I said on one of the other threads in this forum: the U.S. is on a "first-priority" basis. The Administration is so wrapped up in this war with Iraq and Afghanistan, that they clearly can't see past anything but Iraq and Afghanistan.

It would be nice to render the world free of terrorism but, let's face the facts; the U.S. is one country. One contry alone cannot defeat terrorism, but with the help of other free nations we can try to bring a resolve to the situation. Not neccesaryly through a war. War should be the last resolve for international affairs.