Recently i learnt a few things about islam that have made me wonder if islam is about peace as moderate muslims claim. Do you know that the majority of muslims in the world dont know how to read the koran coz it is unlawful be translated into other languages from arabic, so they dont understand their own religion. It is written that their god allah hates all unbelivers(any nonmuslim and he especially hates the jews). There are 24 names for allah and none of them means love. Do you know of the brutal nature of the sharia or islamic law where a husband has the right to beat his wife with a stick if he finds her disobedient. There are judgements like being stoned to death if the wife is adulterous. Do you know that every muslim has the right to carry out jihad(kill any nonmusim who refuses to convert to islam).Do the extremists show the true nature of islam?

Hah! clpo ftw.

Anyways, I still don't see how people don't understand that point. See, take this:

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And yet? Just because the Koran says Muslims don't do certain things, it doesn't mean in any way that thats the case.

True, the Qu'ran forbids it and people still do it. But what does that prove? Just that there are Muslims who don't follow the Qu'ran to the letter. Christianity, for instance, is no different. There are a number of things the Bible forbids good Christians to do. Taking God's name in vain is a good example. But how many Christians do you know that follow this every single moment of their life? The Bible says not to use God's name in vain, yet Christians still do. What's this indicative of? The wrongness of the Bible or the wrongness of the people who aren't quite following it?

A group is to blame for the actions of a minority within that group if and only if there is something inherent in that group that allows and condones the actions of that minority. Now, certain people may argue to the contrary, but Islam by no means allows or condones terrorism, no more than Christianity allows or condones terrorism (and yes, there are Christian terrorists, who have, incidentally, been causing problems for a lot longer than Muslim terrorists have). When it comes to religion, the mainstream interpretation by its members is what counts (mainstream being the majority). When you look at Christianity, you don't judge it by the small group of people who think the Bible was completely literal. Just so, you shouldn't look at Islam and judge it by the small group of people who think the Qu'ran condones killing innocent civilians, especially considering that some of those civilians are Muslims as well.

They're clearly a minority and they're clearly wrong according to the mainstream version of Islam, so I fail to see how you can judge the 1.4 billion Muslims of the world by the actions or words of a relative handful (and yes, a couple million is a handful compared to a billion).

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But as clpo13 says, "Unless the MAJORITY of a people commit the said crimes, the people is innocent".

and thank God for clpo

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Recently i learnt a few things about islam that have made me wonder if islam is about peace as moderate muslims claim. Do you know that the majority of muslims in the world dont know how to read the koran coz it is unlawful be translated into other languages from arabic, so they dont understand their own religion. It is written that their god allah hates all unbelivers(any nonmuslim and he especially hates the jews). There are 24 names for allah and none of them means love. Do you know of the brutal nature of the sharia or islamic law where a husband has the right to beat his wife with a stick if he finds her disobedient. There are judgements like being stoned to death if the wife is adulterous. Do you know that every muslim has the right to carry out jihad(kill any nonmusim who refuses to convert to islam).Do the extremists show the true nature of islam?

Dude, if you only knew what I knew. But Im sure people have already heard me talk about the rape/murder/pillage of invading muslims in Europe (and rejected that its real), so Ill shush about that.

You know Dalecia, using women and children in a Jihad is also explicitly forbidden. And yet? Just because the Koran says Muslims don't do certain things, it doesn't mean in any way that thats the case. Maybe you shouldn't pretend the machete-ings of christians, and the bombings and rapings, and the threats of Islamic conquest of Europe have not occured.
But as clpo13 says, "Unless the MAJORITY of a people commit the said crimes, the people is innocent".

THE MAIN MIISION OF EACH AND EVERY RELIGION IS TO SPREAD PAECE!! AND NOTHING ELSE......SO IT MAY BE ANY RELIGION...ON THIS EARTH

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Originally posted by aaaarh:
Recently i learnt a few things about islam that have made me wonder if islam is about peace as moderate muslims claim. Do you know that the majority of muslims in the world dont know how to read the koran coz it is unlawful be translated into other languages from arabic, so they dont understand their own religion. It is written that their god allah hates all unbelivers(any nonmuslim and he especially hates the jews). There are 24 names for allah and none of them means love. Do you know of the brutal nature of the sharia or islamic law where a husband has the right to beat his wife with a stick if he finds her disobedient. There are judgements like being stoned to death if the wife is adulterous. Do you know that every muslim has the right to carry out jihad(kill any nonmusim who refuses to convert to islam).Do the extremists show the true nature of islam?

DONT GET CERTAIN TWISTED CULTURES AND TRADITIONS MIXED UP WITH ISLAM.

To make it clear, honor killings are FORBIDDEN by Islam. Honor killing is murder and must be punished accordingly. Honor killing was one of many abuses of women in pre-Islamic Arabia that Islamic teachings eradicated. It is terrible and sad how some Muslims act as though Islam had never come to them.

its not unlawful to take the Quran in another language and CALL it THE QURAN. its lawful to have TRANSLATIONS/INTERPRITATIONS OF IT, but we cannot claim that any Quran that is not in its true arabic form is the Quran.

there are 99 names of Allah. one of them is Ar-Rahman which is commonly translated into "Compassionate", but "ar-Rahman" is very complex and most ppl are too lazy to list all its meanings in English. "Ar-Rahman" has a very very strong meaning. like, its stronger than a mothers love to her child. a mother wouldnt abandon her child, would do anything and absolutly everything to protect and care for her child, she would do all in her power to keep it away for harm. isnt this love?

a man doesnt have a right to beat his wife. if ppl actually GO and STUDY hadith, "beat" in islamic terms means strike with something that will not even irriate the skin, such as yarn or some other flimsy thing. of course, there are disgraceful idiots who WONT go and find out what this means. but you know what? there are all sorts of men, who beat women, from all religions and cultures.

and stoning a woman for being adulterous. this is true. but u know what else is true? we stone MEN too for being adulterous. and the strict sharia? if the punishment for stealing is losing a hand, would u really wanna take anything that wasnt yours?

and how many times do we have to say it!??!!? killing is not jihad. jihad means struggle. jihad akbar, or "greater jihad" is a persons inner struggle with themselves. jihad asghar or "lesser jihad" is an outward stuggle. it does not mean Holy War. it means the fight we face when defending ourselves from opposers. and just because some nut with a gun out there is saying thats jihad and your listening to him, whats that say about you? your looking at a CLEARLY dimented person, y u gonna take what HE says and take it in like ALL muslims think that? Thats like saying all white people are members of the KKK and hate non whites or all Germans are Nazis, and we all know thats not true, its in fact BS.

many of these misconceptions are because losers have mixed ISLAM and their CULTURE, then labled it all under ISLAM because its a religion. dont get it mixed up.

I'm not Muslim, but I am interested in the religion, and I know of some of the stuff mentioned in the Koran. there are other things called Honor Killings, where a father can kill his daughter for disobeying him (running away, eloping, etc.). It's really sad but i don't believe it reflects the entire culture.

Hmm, I wonder who I confused you with. I'm horrible at remembering names. Good with faces, but horrible with names.

nah i was never really religious

Weren't you religious at some point, or am I confusing you with someone else? I do that often, so pardon me if I'm mistaken.

this is why i hate organized religion. The fact is, every single major religion today (cept maybe buddhism, idk) has advocated the use of violence for the advancement of their cause at some point in history.

The general public follow(ed) the dogmatic leaders of their faith to the point they would use violence against a member of another religion. How could this happen? Because the general public is so god damn stupid, and dont even understand that killing defeats the purpose of whatever religion they stand for. All religion does is put a leader in power that may hide behind his own belief system to advocate violence for the satisfaction of his desire for power. That precedent is then set for ages to come, for more and more stupid leaders to advocate, because they will follow whatever precedent was set by a powerful, manipulative leader. The general public will do as the institutions advocate because they accept this faith as their belief system and will do as their leaders tell them without any question because they are so deprived of education, they lack the proper judgement to do otherwise.

Look at theworld today. You don't see muslims in AMerica who have lived their for years up in arms against the christians. It's the poorly educated peoples of the Third World who make up the terrorists main force. Islam isn't fighting against the Christians; they're fighting agaisnt the West, America, Israel; Jews and Christians yes, but many other religions as well. To the lone idiotic terrorist, it is about stopping the christians and Jews, for the glory of Islam, a medeival fanatical way of thinking. To the terrorist leader, or more accurately the governments that fund them, it is about attacking and regaining israel by first eliminating the influence of Israel's biggest protector: THe US.

Religion is fine in theory. The values and morals both Christianity and Judaism, and even Islam (to some extent) are harmless and good for society. But the stupidity of the people nd the manipulative leaders of faith, destroy the foundations of the very same values they stand behind and make it very hard if not impossible for religion to ever serve mankind any sort of good.

the top brass in the nazi government held a certain interest in occultism but it is generally exagerated like amp said.

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Even the occult bit that amp mentioned wasn't that big of a part of the party.

Yup it was mostly confined (as I said) to the SS and even then the good majority of the SS didn't have a clue about it.

There were Christian Nazis, but the Nazi Party wasn't overtly religious in any sense. Even the occult bit that amp mentioned wasn't that big of a part of the party.

I guess the difference between any other religion even christianism (and you have to admits the Roman Catholics did some pretty nasty things to the non-converters in their time too) is that they happened a very long time ago while the Muslim one is still continuing . Its almost one of the only religions that has been literally followed since the ancient times without much of a change .
I'll tell you how i judge the true nature of Islam , with Muslim friends that i have who are religious and traditional following Rosa and respecting their parents which is more than can be said for any of us Razaq who is a driver +mentor + amazing biryani maker +friend and the kindest man i know . The place where i go for Iftar with the music and the beautiful clothes and food i cant even describe and this is held in a Muslim majority area and i never felt out of place .

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the nazis were christians

WRONG! kinda... Actually a large portion of the Scuzhe Staffel(The SS) and especially the TotenKopf Division (Death's Head Division, the guys who ran the camps) were part of an Occult faith primarily made up by Heinrich Himmler (Reichfuhrer of the SS) and of course Hitler. Hitler's hatred of Jews is not linked to religion in any way but instead supposedly had to do with blood purity of the master race and few other reasons. Also the jews have been the scape goats of europe for centuries untold (even russia did similer things. A soon as things got rocky in almost any country in europe the jews were blamed and had horrible things happen to them, not as bad as the holocaust pre-hitler but still pretty damn awful).

History lesson aside a better example of christian extremists (since we just disproved the nazis a christian extremists) would be either the European Crusaders (for a historic example) or those christian nutjobs who fire bomb abortion clinics for a more modern extremist

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and you're naive if you think that the israeli jews don't celebrate the death of some palestinians

They do (for the militants any way and guess what, if you were at the wrong of those scumbags bombs and aks you'd celebrate their deaths to) and that's true enough, but they don't form mobs and slaughter muslims in the streets which is what he was talking about.
As for the jews mourning civilian death. That's most likely true and not suprising at all you want the bad guys to die, not the people just going about their lives (I'd trust phant on that report btw, he was just in israel)

Finally the whole reason any one on earth gives a damn about israel is that it contains some of the most important holy sites for the 3 major world religions (Islam, Christainity and Judeism) so that whole conflict is very much religion fuled.

in response to phantom,

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But, I don't see Jews murdering Moslems in the streets just because they are Moslems.

i think the most famous case of religious genocide would be the nazis murdering the jews just because they were jews. and though they didn't do it in the name of religion, the nazis were christians. so muslims are not the only ones.

and it's obvious that the extremists are a small minority, and most religions have extremists within them.


and you're naive if you think that the israeli jews don't celebrate the death of some palestinians. and that's not even a valid argument regarding the religion of islam, because the conflict between the jews and muslims in israel stems from both of them occupying the same land, not from differences in religion. Muslims and jews coexist peacefully in many other places. The Israel/Palestine conflict is a specific case.

yes that is exactly what we can do on this site I enjoy it, it's not very challenging intelectually but provides an interesting passtime when work is excesively boring and nothing else delivers.

I did, will you please summarize it for me?

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This argument will never cease to go in circles until you learn the meaning of "vocal extremist minority." Until then, I have no more to say.

is anything on this site supposed to change people's minds? Trust me, I know that whatever i say your not going to agree with, and I won't agree with you....so of course, all we can do on this site is post what we feel and agree to disagree.......and maybe insult each other a little all in good fun.

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Meanwhile, Jews are tired of fighting, sing about peace, and mourn the deaths of civilians (even palestinian.)

read my post in israel war 2007.