wat the heck is wrong with u? as some ppl said we don't even know uy wud we hate u? plus the fact that all ppl in the military aren't the same. u saw the ex. when the naked pics. of the prisoners were being taken & u think that we wudn't be hated by other countries c'mon still after that u wud expect ppl to respect u. U do know that it was totally wrong wat happened. Maybe the young kids walking on the airport developed a stereotype against u that's prob. it i mean wat the heck it doesn't have to be that big a deal. I just think u have a lot of anger and frustration built in u and u r releasing it in the form of a speech on the disrespect for military. watever. I don't think that attitude is gonna win u respect anyways, missy! I wud say that first look inside yourself for all the wrong things u have done & then correct other ppl. u can't just demand or make someone respect u. U gots to earns it! u know wat i'm sayin?!
quote: I hope to God you people are never in the government. The way you are now America would be doomed.
Demagogy
quote: I bet you all want to get rid of weapons and have peace and all that crap
I certainly don't want to get rid of all our weapons, never have never will.
quote: We are the most hated country in te world
I beg to differ, I have traveled ALOT and I would hardly say we are the most hated in the world. This is certainly a mighty big claim with little data to back it up.
quote:yet we are the most blessed and it really hurts me that people my own age hate and despise me and my friends that served overseas so that they could hate and despise us.
I don't even know you, how could I hate you. I strongly disagree with a lot of what you are saying. But to say you give me the right to hate you is BS. Whether I can say it publicly does not change the fact that I can still hate you mentally.
quote: You know when I came back from Iraq I was standing in an airport waiting to go home on leave. I was in my DCUs and you know what, lots of older people came up and hugged me and shook my hand and thanked me for fighting overseas, but not one younger person even said hello, in fact many of them went out of their way to avoid me.
Well I can only attest for my own actions, when my friends and family got back from Iraq I sure as hell didn't avoid them; I gave most them a big hug. Some I did not because their closer family members told me not to come because that particular person was not ready for a big welcome home type situation and out of RESPECT and GRATITUDE I did not show up.
quote: What has our generation come to that we no longer respect the military?
Again you are confusing words.
quote: The same military that freed us and gave us all our rights in the American revoultion
Very unrealistic and untrue. This can also be interpreted as anti-American, seeing as our rights are deemed as "natural and inalienable."
Just like you don't like being stereotyped because of a few bad actions by other soldiers, I do not like being stereotyped. Stop trying to say that all the people who are against the current war are the same.
quote: Now that I have read your post, I will make sure to show my appreciation to any American military personnel that I may come across.
This is the kind of crap that rhetoric that is absolutely absurd. It’s the same political diatribe that is spewed from both sides that has absolutely not validity whatsoever. Both sides use the soldiers as a blanket to shield themselves from any kind of criticism and very frankly if I were solider I would be more angry about this then anything else. It seems appreciation is now interpreted as agreeing with every freaking view a solider has. If this is what is viewed as "freedom" and “apprectiation” sign me up for the other side. I'm sure I'll be called a communist, socialist and every other term that carries a negative connotation to it, but very frankly I would rather be that then a freaking goose stepping fascist.
quote: just want you to know that there are still some patriotic, respectful young Americans out there.
You are eexactly right. I think that everyone who is against this war is ignorant, and they need to get their information straight before becoming a huge, obnoxious group. I can't beleive the lack of respect from young people you were desribing! Now that I have read your post, I will make sure to show my appreciation to any American military personnel that I may come across. I just want you to know that there are still some patriotic, respectful young Americans out there.
I feel for you. Anyone who disrespects soldiers is a tratior. My family can trace service in the military for every generation since the war that started America. The Revolution. I will probably follow and be an explosives engineer or a chaplain. I am sick of the bull**** soldiers go through today. What the hell happened in 60 years? Did Vietnam screw us over? We might never know. All I can say is if you don't like the military, I hope there's another draft, and YOUR SORRY *** GETS DRAFTED! If you disrespect the military, you are anti-american and need to leave.
a twisted view of the world... wow i have seen that poll and several other polls all of which leaned one way then the other.. that's because polls really are pointless.. unless they actually talk to everyone they are pointless... how could the polls be true when you have the same questions asked at the same general time and they come out the opposite of one another? man you need help.. not sure why i am responding to smurf, he/she never really has had a good grip on anything i have seen them post about, but oh well...
i'm not a right wing anything you retard.. i made that clear in the begining,,i'm not a republican or a democrat.. so lay off the right wing crap, it is your cop out...
"You and the rest of the right scream this just because you want to believe it, and I want you to shut it"
LMFAO!!!!!!! first i'm not right wing and "shut it"? why? the truth hurt.... go back to your dreamland..
"Wrong, inspectors were allowed to do anything they wanted."
LMFAO again.. yeah.. your in touch...
the UN is so corrupt it isn't funny.. libya come on... and the oil for food program.. lol iraq broke many different resolutions...
also the majority of the UN DID believe they had weapons.. go do your research my friend... also many many countries in the UN supported the war, the main opposition were the countries that were making billions through saddam and the oil for food program...
"Explain to me, please, where you found that particular bull****?"
let's try some simple math.. of the represented leagues and or countries, 49 agreed with the war and 27 didn't and 3 remained neutral. hmmmm.. 49 to 27 would that not be the majority? and by the way, canada said they would support the war if the un voted for it, also they are in the war already in a matter of speaking they are running protection for our ships and others in operation apollo.
"Those artillery shells were pre-used leftovers from the FIRST Gulf War."
LMAO preused? lol lol lol lol umm they were intact,not used and were chemically armed with sarin and mustard gas... , even if they are from the first warwhich is probable, they should have been destroyed already since that is what the anti war whiners and saddam both say.. and please show me a pre used chemical artillery shell that is still intact.. this was not a "dud" as they used it's firing mechanism to detonate them...the reason for such small exposures was it is a binary shell and the chemicals did not mix. get a clue.. see this is what i am talking about.. they live in their own world...
"But...uh..."the enemy" IS Iraqi civilians! They're the ones who are attacking us, and WE'RE the ones shooting at ambulances!"
you show how clueless you are once again.. you have no idea what is going on over there do you?
"Hmmm...let's see...IF Iraqi "terrorists" killed Nicholas Berg"
no no my friend don't attempt to change the words for your benefit.. i simply said terrorists..
and your next statement proves you are lost in your own world with out a single fact to help you... and civilians die in war you fruitcake, name a single country involved in a war that has not killed civilians accidentally or on purpose.. the use of this reasoning is a tired and weak argument.. anyone with a brain knows that.. and like i said if we didn't care about civilian casualties our soldiers would be sitting at home with their families right now.. do you know how quick we could end this if civilian deaths didn't matter..geez you are a dullard.
" First of all, many people in the Abu Ghraib were innocent"
i already said that.. try and keep up..
"Replacing a torturer DOES NOT exuse torture."
correct, who is excusing it?
""These people"...Apparantly, all Iraqis are exactly the same, according to Our Friend Whitey"
you mean when i said "those people"? if so.. do you enjoy making yourself look like a "special person? because you just made your self look very stupid...
"Ahhhhhh, and again the right brings up the Big Wars of the 20th Century to justify any act of milatary aggresion"
ahhhhhh and again you are an idiot.. do you even know how to read? my god you have no grasp on reality.
point being, violence does solve things.. you didn't prove that wrong in all of your fairy tale like babbling...
"OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY??? Every point in your post is based on a myth or something that's just simply untrue. So please be quiet."
actually on the contrary, your points have been pure fallacies, mine actually came from facts and reality.. my guess is you are some wanna be scholar that gets mommy and daddy to get you anything you want... you sound like a spoiled child that has been blinded by their wishful thinking and skewed take on how the world is.. you have shown time and time again that you are out of touch with the topics being discussed here so why should this topic be any different? it seems as though you have some warped conspiracy theory on everything and you try and look intelligent through the use of your thesaurus.. maybe you should stop trying to SOUND intelligent and actually become intelligent.. because judging from your posts, you could use the knowledge.... thank you for your time...
Congratulations on building the tower of Babylon on a pile of festering meat.
First of all, you bust out with the statement that all those in opposition to the war have a twisted view of the world, and then right after that you fly out with the myth that all Iraqis are happy that we're here and want us to stay. How dare you, you dirty right-wing hypocrite?
USA Today poll. USA TODAY. Left-wing media, my ***.
Why would they be happy when a foreign power comes in, appoints a government, gives old Saddam-era generals power, keeps many of the same political prisoners in jail, and puts new, completely innocent people in jail?
You and the rest of the right scream this just because you want to believe it, and I want you to shut it.
Wrong, inspectors were allowed to do anything they wanted.
Alot of you *****es bring up the fact that Saddam "broke U.N. resolutions." Guess what? SO DO WE. So do a lot of countries. What to do is the United Nations choice, SEEING AS THOUGH THEY'RE THE UNITED NATIONS' resolutions.
Uhhhhh...."a majority of countries were for the war?" Explain to me, please, where you found that particular bull****?
No, every country in the U.N. DIDNT think Iraq had WMDs! Because many of them listened to WEAPONS INSPECTORS.
Those artillery shells were pre-used leftovers from the FIRST Gulf War.
"The enemy" uses civilians as a shield? But...uh..."the enemy" IS Iraqi civilians! They're the ones who are attacking us, and WE'RE the ones shooting at ambulances!
Hmmm...let's see...IF Iraqi "terrorists" killed Nicholas Berg (which isn't certain, seeing as though the last he time he was seen before that video, he was taken in by American-appointed forces), ONE person is not equivalent to the 9153 to 11010 we've killed. NOWHERE CLOSE. (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) Even if U.S. troops were killing civilians "by accident," 9153 is NOT an acceptable accident!
First of all, many people in the Abu Ghraib were innocent, many not connected with Saddam. Replacing a torturer DOES NOT exuse torture. It's simple as that. "These people"...Apparantly, all Iraqis are exactly the same, according to Our Friend Whitey.
There's kind of a International Code of conduct for punishing the guilty, by the way. Ooooh! Also in our Constitution! Something about...cruel...unusual...something like that!
Ahhhhhh, and again the right brings up the Big Wars of the 20th Century to justify any act of milatary aggresion...
So...
World War I: World War One was the detritus of Imperialism and Milatarism building up in the drain of life. Eagerness to use force WAS the one and only problem in World War One, and nothing was really solved.
World War II: If you skip the part about France and England's WWI punishments CAUSING WWII, then WWII is an opressive and milatarly agressive country openly ATTACKING other nations and other nations DEFENDING themselves. VERY DIFFERENT.
Korean War: The problem in the Korean War was America's insane fear of Communism. This was solved by China being very, very big and close to Korea.
OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY??? Every point in your post is based on a myth or something that's just simply untrue. So please be quiet.
i can't take it anymore!!!! i have been reading all these threads and my god!!!
i am not a bush fan, let me go ahead and get that out in the open.. i didn't vote for him, actually i didn't vote at all because i didn't really care for any of the canidates, so i don't want to hear you republican this or pro bush that...
i don't understand how all the anti war, gossip preaching people can be so blind and stupid... they have this twisted view of how the world works.. they whine and cry about everything and very rarely make any valid points.. all you hear is the war is evil, bush should be arrested, the USA is evil or no better than saddam, blah blah blah... you people are idiots.. it is that simple.
wanna know the truth.. the MAJORITY of Iraqis are glad we did what we did.. the majority thank us for removing saddam.. the majority of them don't want us to leave yetthough they don't want us to stay indefinitely either.. the majority of them are glad we are helping them rebuild their country.. the majority of them are glad they are not being tortured and killed.. but we rarely see this reported.. when something like that is reported it is usually a 30 second spot, then they show 2 hours on the "abuse" of the prisoners... i have friends from iraq, that have gone back several times and they all tell me the majority of people are glad about what we did.. i have friends and family in the military they also say the same thing...so all the bleeding hearts need to take off their rose colored glasses and see how the world really works..
there will never be peace in the world.. and all the people preaching for world peace need a swift kick in the a s s ! sure it is a great DREAM, but that is what it is A DREAM! it will never happen... there has NEVER been world peace nor will their ever be..so to whine about we should never go to war, we should negotiate, etc.. is a bunch of childish happy talk with no focus on reality.. they make the argument that we should not have gone to war but negotiated with saddam or we should have let the UN handle it.. etc.. all of which is and was a joke!
saddam "negotiated" by saying one thing and doing another.. and let the UN handle it? if you believe that was a solution i have a bunch of magic beans to sell you.. lets see, saddam broke several UN resolutions and they did nothing, saddam kicked out inspectors and they did nothing.. saddam killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and they did nothing.. then people say the other countries in the UN were against the war.. actually no they were not.. people forget that the majority of the countries did NOT object to the war, mainly it was the countries that held veto power that were against it.. and look at who they were... the countries making BILLIONS from saddam and the oil for food program.. of course they were against it.. i would be too, if it meant that i was going to loose a several billion dollar anual paycheck..
then the big WMD debate.. ok all the anti war people keep whining about bush lied, there were no WMD etc.. umm EVERY country in the UN thought they had them.. sorry it is a fact... so how did bush lie when everybody else ALSO thought he had them? now as for the WMD.. can you say needle in a hay stack.... saddam had months and years to perfect hiding them.. the majority of the country is not developed.. it would be so easy to hide them it isn't funny... also the majority of the military from our country as well as other countries(some of which i might add were against the war) believe they are in syria.. you also have syrian defectors and syrian captives saying they are there.. also if there were NO WMD where did the IRAQI artillery shells loaded with sarin and mustard gas come from? according to saddam and the anti war crowd they had ALL BEEN DESTROYED AND DIDN'T EXIST ANYMORE... or maybe this was simply a harry potter type magic trick... some magical islamic cleric changed a normal shell into a chemical one simply to teach the infidels a lesson...
then they point fingers saying we are killing civilians... yeah and.... of course we are, it is kind of hard not to when your enemy uses them as a f'ing shield... the US goes out of its way NOT to harm or kill civilians, if you deny this you need serious help.. if we did not care about civilians, the whole war would be over and our soldiers would be at home right now.. if we did not care about civilians and civilian casualties, we would simply over run the enemy blow up everything in site and kill them all.. problem solved, no more enemy..see when the US does kill civilians it is accidental i think we all know that, however the enemy kills them on purpose... when we kill a civilian the whole world speaks out calling us murderers and killers, but when the terrorist do it, you hear nothing... just look at the last beheading.. very few countries spoke out.. imagine what the world would say if the US did that to one of the prisoners.. remember this was not simply a beheading, this kid's head was slowly sawed off with a knife while people held him down...and what did the arab countries say? nothing....yet we stack some naked prisoners on top of each other and it is the holocaust revisited... give me a f'ing break!!!!!!!
as far as the prisoners.. i have mixed feelings.. some of those prisoners are army and also prison guards that worked in that prison.. those people i think deserve much worse than anything they recieved.. these are the people that actually did toture innocent men women and children.. everything from mass rape, murder, and real torture.. no, don't even try and compare the two.. when i say mass rape, i am talking about the well documented occurances of up to 50 men raping 9-15 year old girls for fun.. kidnapped and raped for fun or to prove a point to their families.. saddam actually had a RAPE SQUAD... that would teach a mother or father or other family members a lesson by beating and raping their children or relatives for days, weeks, or months.. YOUNG CHILDREN MANY TIMES resulting permenant and serious health problems and death.
and when i say murder, i don't mean a prisoner here and there, i mean thousands upon thousands.. in horrible ways, including, slow electrocution of body parts until they die of shock induced stroke or heart attacks, gut shooting people then laughing aat them while they die a slow death, slow hangings, while being beaten.. burned alive, everything from being doused with gasoline to having it poured down there throats, slowly dipped into acid, slowly sawed apart, being pushed into a platic/wood chipper feet first, just to name a few things.. he would also force parents to set fire to their children and children set fire to their parents. so what would you consider worse? forced to give your friend a BJ or setting fire to your children and watching them scream and burn to death in front of your eyes?
and as far as tourture nothing i repeat nothing our soldiers did compares to the torture these people commited.. i hear people say they shoved a broom stick up their a s s... i would much rather have that done to me than saddam's version.. he would have guards shove a pole about the size of a pvc pipe fitted with a device on the end that resembles a treble hook , and actually pull their insides out through their rectum... now which one would you pick? i won't even begin to list his ways of torture, but i think anyone with a brain can see there is no real comparison here...
now on the other side, many of the people in the prison are simply detainees, thus innocent people.. and they should be treated with respect unlees they are proven guilty of something.. the fact that some of them have been abused and humiliated, makes me angry and i think the soldiers involved need to be punished severely!!! no slap on the wrist c r a p.. PUNISHED!!!
then they say violence never solved anything.. BS! violence solved WW1 WW2 KOREA and every other conflict.. now whether it was solved in our favor of the enemy is pointless.. it was still solved through violence... what do you really want us to do.. throw water balloons at them when they ambush us? give me a break.. the only way to deal with people like that is to kill them all and in doing so swiftly and brutally, causing anyone else that might want to attack us to think twice about it...look over in parts south east asia, they had a terrorist problem about 60 years ago.. they started burying islamic terrorist in pig carcasses.. and guess what, they had very little trouble for almost a half century... some people say that is disgracing their religion... no it isn't, it is using their religion to our advantage.. they use it for their advantage.. do you really think as many people would be blowing themselves up if they did not believe in it? no they wouldn't...if it helps them fight us, we should use it for ourside too... speaking of religion though, i do find it annoying that many people view people who worship islam as one giant group.. that they are all terrorists, killers etc... this could not be further from the truth... judge by their actions not their religion.. don't hate muslims hate people that want to kill us... there are bad christians,hindu, muslims etc, don't judge all by the actions of a few!
it is sad to see that the anti war crowd it so out of touch with reality... from now on, use your head.. war is bad but it many cases it is both necessary and the best means to an end...
[This message was edited by tigercats12 on May 24, 2004 at 12:31 AM.]
quote: That doesn't make it okay. Would you accept that as a fact if people came to your house and killed your family and friends? I doubt you would be okay with it, and shrug, saying, "Oh, well. Civilians are going to be killed in any war."
First, our soldiers do not burst into civilian houses and mow people down. People are killed by errant bombs and such. Did the people of Germany, Japan, Britian, and others accept the loss of civilians in the "normal" course of war? Yes. I can't say much about how I would feel because it hasn't happend. What I CAN say is that I wouldn't hate a country for accidently killing some of those close to me any more than I would hate someone who did the same in an accident. War is neccecary in some situations. Civilians, despite our efforts to the opposite, do die. It's a reality. To put it bluntly, People will die. Get used to it.
quote: I'm not there, I don't know what's truly going on, and I don't see any reason to trust anyone who supports this war.
Paranoia anyone?
quote: All I know is that there are, as of right now, no WMD, and thousands of people have died because our President didn't think twice.
What people don't realise is that this war had strong planning behind it. Anyone remember the axiom about what happens to planning when you test it in battle?
quote: Am I supposed to be celebrating that less people have died in this war than others?
Yes. Less people are dead. Others are still dieing, but less people are dead, and less will die thanks to our tactics and technology. Why not acknowladge that fact alone?
quote: The fact remains that people are dead because of my country's leader. That is not a good thing, and I will not support the cause of their deaths.
First, it is also because of the majority of our population and Congress. John Kerry himself voted and even ARGUED for this war. Second, If you do not support our efforts in Iraq, in the long run you're going to kill more people, and weaken America. What is the sense in that?
quote: There is no justification. Don't even try; you just look like an ******* and an idiot.
I have not tried to justify the abuse. I have simply tried to put it into perspective. We've seen the problem, we are fixing the problem, now lets get back to the real job and not weaken ourselves by focusing reletively insignifigant issues.
quote: I'm not, jackass. I'm blaming the soldiers
Well, since the system is made of soldiers, you're blaming the whole system for the actions of a few.
For clarification:
WE ARE NOT TARGETING CIVILIANS. DO NOT DEMAND PERFECTION FROM ANYTHING AS COMPLEX AS REBUILDING AN ENTIRE COUNRY. PERFECTION IN THIS CASE IS IMPOSSIBLE. ACCEPT IT.
quote: Civilians are going to be killed in any war. That is something that must be accepted.
That doesn't make it okay. Would you accept that as a fact if people came to your house and killed your family and friends? I doubt you would be okay with it, and shrug, saying, "Oh, well. Civilians are going to be killed in any war."
quote: We're doing our best right now to prevent this,
I'm not there, I don't know what's truly going on, and I don't see any reason to trust anyone who supports this war. All I know is that there are, as of right now, no WMD, and thousands of people have died because our President didn't think twice.
quote: and this war has had one of the lowest civilian casualty rates ever.
Am I supposed to be celebrating that less people have died in this war than others? The fact remains that people are dead because of my country's leader. That is not a good thing, and I will not support the cause of their deaths.
quote: Torture, well that was a failure of the command and control and a breakdown in military discipline.
There is no justification. Don't even try; you just look like an ******* and an idiot.
so you mean taht if america stops attacking defenseless countries, americans will become slaves and no longer be free? if the war stops, america becomes communists? if america stops raping the land and polluting the world, you are NOT FREE ANYMORE?! so your father fought for your freedom aw thaats so nice. your father ****ed my country in the *** to "defend your country" and now mine is dying of hnger, druggies and poor people all over my country, to protect yours?! and now youre coming with a free trade agreement to free your country? from waht? mindless ****s who own a stupid corporation? are you really that stupid, as to think that the more people you kill, the more people you rape and the more houses you steal, the more freedom you have? all the freedom america has is to **** the world over with a freaking button, and you tell me that by attacking my country you are free? **** YOU. i dont like america, i will never like it until mindless ****s like you learn to think straight. And negotiations havent failed. do you think "disarm your country even if you dont have any weapons in two weeks or we are going to burn your kids to death with these napalm shells" sound like a negotiation? and the UN? the UN is controlled by america, you ****tard. there is no way that any negotiation is going to even take place between america and ANY other country in the world, because america has the money to change minds to ANYONE who they want. and where did they get this money from? From wars! WHY? because with each war the dollar price rises. withevery person dead, the dollar rises, but you americans are so stupid that they dont even realize that they have a green paper making country. Who cares how many bills america makes? its not gonna devaluate, the controls are too bad as to let anyone realize what is going on. We are the most hated country in te world, yet we are the most blessed and it really hurts me that people my own age hate and despise me and my friends that served overseas so that they could hate and despise us. who the **** do you think you are when you call yourself blessed? wow, bless you, because you killed 400 kids! Yes, maybe im your own age, but i hate you because youre so stupid that you condone violence with the stupid argument that without wars you wouldnt be free. have you ever wondered why wouldnt you be free if you didnt have wars? i think not. i think you heard it on tv, so you have the urge to use it as a reason. its like me saying "oh i hate black people. if i didnt hate them, we wouldnt be free, so go fork yourself and thank me for hating black people"
quote: I was in my DCUs and you know what, lots of older people came up and hugged me and shook my hand and thanked me for fighting overseas, but not one younger person even said hello, in fact many of them went out of their way to avoid me. What has our generation come to that we no longer respect the military? The same military that freed us and gave us all our rights in the American revoultion.
yes, old people came up to you and shaked hands with you because they are the ones who brainwash themselves intheir physical disabilities, which only leads them to watching CNN and any other moronic news programs that you american sissies have. No, i dont respect the military, they are KILLERS. the military didnt free you, what freed you was something called a milicia, which means that every guy fights to stay alive. that my friend, is not a moment for respect. because they had to run to violence to clear things up. Yes, my military also had to throw out the americans when they tried to make my country a slave state of the "united" states of america. And yes, we kicked them out. and we didnt do anything to them before. that same army freed you? i dont think so. i dont have any respect for any military, bunch of gay mother****ers trying to look hard in a camo and waking up at 6 am. like if they really had to. And i really fdont give a **** if i offended you, because whoever you "convert"and try to talk your bull**** into is another imperialistic mother****er just like you. I sincerely wouldnt care if you got killed at war. because whoever kills you was another "soldier" trying to "protect their country and their freedom" from the yankees from stupid *******s like you who think attacking people is ok.
quote: It's not the fact that they're killing enemies in Iraq, it's the fact that they are killing civilians and torturing people. It doesn't matter if it's an enemy or a civilian; war is uncivilized enough without added violence.
Civilians are going to be killed in any war. That is something that must be accepted. We're doing our best right now to prevent this, and this war has had one of the lowest civilian casualty rates ever. Torture, well that was a failure of the command and control and a breakdown in military discipline. You can't blame the whole system for that.
quote: If you support the soldiers, then support them when they want to go in and kill/capture every enemy in Iraq.
It's not the fact that they're killing enemies in Iraq, it's the fact that they are killing civilians and torturing people. It doesn't matter if it's an enemy or a civilian; war is uncivilized enough without added violence.
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