Clpo, I would agree with you under both points.

So do you think that Islam promotes terrorism?

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Do you believe that we are fighting a war against Islamic Extremists?

I think we're fighting a war against Islam itself, as unfortunate as that is. It should be more against the extremists, but violence doesn't tend to eradicate violence.

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And do you believe that there is any bases for the Terrorists actions in the Koran?

Under certain interpretations of it, yes. If you want the Qu'ran to support violence against civilians, than it will.

Two Questions
Do you believe that we are fighting a war against Islamic Extremists?

And do you believe that there is any bases for the Terrorists actions in the Koran?

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the British! South Park anyone? Come on.

with their cursed russian proxies!

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Most Muslims aren’t terrorists aren’t Muslims but most terrorists are Muslims.

And (again) not all whites are serial killers, but almost all serial killers are white. When will you learn that it doesn't matter what the ethnic makeup of a terrorist group is?

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then you should also want to avoid the generalization that all Muslims are peaceful.

And you should avoid the generalization that all Christians are peaceful.

I think we need to set down some ground rules here:

First off, not all Muslims are peaceful.

Second, not all Muslims are terrorists .

There. Now can we get along with non-repetitive, rational debate that doesn't involve the idea that "most" terrorists are X ethnic group and therefore all members of said X ethnic group should be targeted as potential terrorists?

I mean, if we keep focusing on Muslims, we'll miss the true enemy: the British! South Park anyone? Come on.

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Most Muslims aren’t terrorists aren’t Muslims but most terrorists are Muslims. Islam does promote violence and that is why we so much Islamic extremisms.

You might want to rephrase that. It made no sense....

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This is the most insensitive and harsh comment in this thread. Why are we so judgmental and one-sided when it comes to Islamic belief.

Most Muslims aren’t terrorists aren’t Muslims but most terrorists are Muslims. Islam does promote violence and that is why we so much Islamic extremisms.

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I hope we avoid generalizing things

If you wish to avoid generalizations, then you should also want to avoid the generalization that all Muslims are peaceful.

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On second thought, the modern institution of Islam certainly does seem to promote terrorism, or at least aggression.

This is the most insensitive and harsh comment in this thread. Why are we so judgmental and one-sided when it comes to Islamic belief.
Islam does not in any way promote violence and most of all terrorism. The one who wrote the first article in this thread has just over emphasized things where he could plainly say Islamic teachings is definitely against terrorism straight to the point.
But, nevertheless, let us be fair to the religion who has struggled to preserve its sacredness despite the violence associated to it. Many are claiming to be followers of Islam but only a few are TRUE and FAITHFUL to the religion. And, they are extremely different kinds of people.
I hope we avoid generalizing things and being unfair in our statements.
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Originally posted by clpo13:

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The Catholic Church...beleives that you can still get into heaven, even if you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior, if you've lead a good life under the laws of God

Does it really? All the Catholics I know say otherwise, but they might be more traditional than the Church itself.

It falls under the concept of Purgatory. If you haven't been baptised or outright rejected Jesus, you've basically got a chance, ha. It's a response to, say, someone like Ghandi. He was the ultimate pacifist, but he was a "pagan", although he generally would have been considered to be virtuous in the Christian sense.

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The Catholic Church...beleives that you can still get into heaven, even if you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior, if you've lead a good life under the laws of God

Does it really? All the Catholics I know say otherwise, but they might be more traditional than the Church itself.

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Originally posted by speed:
Remember the Church still censors the use of condoms in africa even though HIV has reached the level of a pandemic. That sure is rational behaviour on their part isn't it?

The Church does not deny the viral nature of HIV and knows that condoms *would* work, but still considers them sinful and thus does not support them as there are a number of other methods of prevention that work just as if not more effectively. This differs vastly from other local religions in Africa who think that the cure for HIV is raping virgins.

The Catholic Church acknowladges evolution, beleives that you can still get into heaven, even if you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior, if you've lead a good life under the laws of God, and in general promotes pacifism (and reprimands priests/bishops who stray too far from this path). Sounds a lot more rational than most major religions I know.

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Originally posted by speed:
Remember the Church still censors the use of condoms in africa even though HIV has reached the level of a pandemic. That sure is rational behaviour on their part isn't it?

Not that I condone the church's decisions, but it isn't really their fault that HIV spreads. It's called keep it under the loin cloth, you know? Yes, of course condoms need to be distributed but sex education needs to be taught. You can give me a glove and tell me to go ahead and touch a burning log, but unless you tell me why I shouldn't do it without protection, I'm probably just going to get rid of the glove.

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Because all of your arguments so far in all the discussions we have had are based on context rather than fact. I remind you information can only be taken as fact when there is general consensus on it's truthfullness. Thus, you implicitly saying islam is evil, and basing your statements on non consensuated information automatically discredits your whole discourse.

*Snap, snap, snap.*

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The Catholic Church, for example, is a huge institution, but for the most part the modern Catholic Church is pascifistic and rational.

Remember the Church still censors the use of condoms in africa even though HIV has reached the level of a pandemic. That sure is rational behaviour on their part isn't it?

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I think that you know that that is different. We can clearly see that the place is not reversed so why speculate about what the world would be like if it was.

Because all of your arguments so far in all the discussions we have had are based on context rather than fact. I remind you information can only be taken as fact when there is general consensus on it's truthfullness. Thus, you implicitly saying islam is evil, and basing your statements on non consensuated information automatically discredits your whole discourse.

For understanding. By switching places, you see why people are the way they are. Ever heard the phrase "walk a mile in someone else's shoes?"

The hypothetical is not always ridiculous. It can be useful to speculate on what could have been, if only to better understand what is.

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Like God? Oh, snap! I'll just stop arguing about God, then, since I find him ridiculous.

I think that you know that that is different. We can clearly see that the place is not reversed so why speculate about what the world would be like if it was.

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When something is completely ridicules it is not even worth speculating about.

Like God? Oh, snap! I'll just stop arguing about God, then, since I find him ridiculous.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT TERRORISM BUT ISLAM SURE SEEMS TO PROMOTE CAPS LOCK!!!!1ONE

On second thought, the modern institution of Islam certainly does seem to promote terrorism, or at least agression.

You can quote all the Koran passages you want. What makes up a relegion and culture are the actions of that culture. With a signifigant portion of the Muslim population supporting radical positions promoting theocratic government and agression against "infidels", you're hard pressed to prove to me that a good portion of Islamic institution promotes terrorism.

It's the same way that fundamentalist Christians promote radical actions against homosexuals. It's just that Western civilization has mostly moved beyond these things, and "radical" Christians are for the most part rare. The Catholic Church, for example, is a huge institution, but for the most part the modern Catholic Church is pascifistic and rational.

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Neph, I think the idea was this: what if our places were reversed? What if the West was primarily Muslim and the Middle East Christian?

When something is completely ridicules it is not even worth speculating about.

I meant that Islam was created in a desert environment. Deserts are harsh places to live and to survive requires being tough.

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d actually say that Islam quickly reachd its zenith and was by no means developed in harsh times. Much of the European enlightenment was born from those with the Muslim faith.

It helps that the Muslim world kept better track of advancement of thought; St. Thomas Aquinas only uses 'virtue' in Natural Law because the arab people had kept texts of Aristotles when the West had long forgotten it.