Israel has every right to defend itself. No other nation has the right to call them on that. Lebanon knowingly harbors terrorists whose only goal is to destroy Israel. Can anyone really blame Israel for finally hitting back?
I'm glad the US is finally staying out of this one. First time in six years the administration has done something right with regards to foreign policy...
Of course, I'd feel better if we stopped supporting them at all. They're perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. They've shown that numerous times in the past sixty years.
And for the record I want everyone to know that Heballah is launching rockets and missiles from homes, which is why they are being triangulated and destroyed, so when you see something that calls Israeli soldiers terrorists, you can be rest assured they are striking legitimate targets. It's not Israel that runs and hides amongst civilians, they leave such cowardice up to real terrorists.
No, I am not Jewish, my feelings on this are not persuaded by any religious beliefs. I am completely without bias, except for my hatred of militant extremist muslims. (and christians)
I see no reason why people in Israeli prisons should be categorized as terrorists if Israeli soldiers are not. And before anyone says it, the Israeli army is notorious for killing civillians.
So you're saying that Hezbollah isn't a terrorist organization? My god, the Lebanese government (the part which isn't Hezbollah) thinks that it is a terrorist organization.
I like your point Holliewood.. I hadn't noticed. I can find 2 reasons: First of all, war=stuck home.... which leads us to spending more time online. Under normal circumstances we'd probably be spending it at work or university. secondly, we can't fight with weapons so we fight with words... Just getting the facts straight for the rest of the world since there is lots of distortions and ommitted information in the news.
Originally posted by Sphinx: Oh I'm planning on fighting back. I've had an extremely sucky day though so I'm not going to bother replying to everything you've said that I disagree with. I have better things to do than talk to brick walls, no offense.
Well obviously your not talking to brick wall if you feel the need to keep going on no matter how wrong you are.
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The prisoners that Israel has are terrorists. If Israel had swapped prisoners, it would have only encouraged Hezbollah to abduct more Israelis.
People in Israeli jails are there because they kill or have been accused of killing Israelis. Hizbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers - since they are soldiers it is nearly certain that they have or will at some point in the future kill Arabs. All prisoners here are killers or potential killers. The only difference is that some belong to an organized army and some to a militia.
Read Terrorist
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I see no reason why people in Israeli prisons should be categorized as terrorists if Israeli soldiers are not. And before anyone says it, the Israeli army is notorious for killing civillians.
The Israeli military is just that a legitimate military, Heballah is not. They are a group of civilians, so by your book, terrorists are civilians, and those that support them are civilians, I think myself and Israel and most of the western world disagree with that assessment.
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Your from Jordan, surrounded by Muslims, you don't have to worry about terrorism per se on the same level that Israel does
That is so utterly offensive. You think that Arab countries don't have to deal with terrorism? Let me tell you something, Muslims aren't immune to terrorism because terrorism does not belong to Muslim ideals. I don't want to get off topic... Just don't make assumptions like that.
Oh really when was the last time one of your neighbors came across your boarder and abducted a Jordanian soldier for the sole purpose of ransoming him off? That was a point of fact.
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how would you like it if the Russian army came in attacked your troops, then kidnapped a couple? I think there would be a legitimate gripe there.
Yeah, I wouldn't like it at all. But it wouldn't be enough incentive for Jordan to bomb the hell out of Russia. Can you honestly say that hypothetically you would support that kind of military action?
Honestly yes I can support Jordan attacking russia, it would be Jordans fastest way off the face of the earth. The reason Jordan wouldn't mess with Russia is because Russia would stomp on you. But how about a smaller nation? But what enemies do you have other than Israel nearby that Jordan could defeat? None. So like the above point, what have you got to worry about?
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They drop leaflets and then have air raids on suburban homes. The leaflets are to keep the international community happy while they blow up entire families on opposite sides of the country from HIzbollah's headquarters. I'm genuinely surprised that dropping leaflets has actually impressed anyone.
Propaganda, please move along, show me an article that says that Israel bombed entire families or blew up residential areas.
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The fact that you can say that about entire countries shows me that there's no further use talking to you or trying to convince you of anything. You're just one of those people who holds no importance to human life apparently? Because that's just sad.
stop it, your hurting my feelings... Look, I said it before and I'll say it again, by defying UN resolution and allowing Hezballah to participate in parliment, they brought this upon themselves.
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I wasn't talking about government complexes, I was talking about Lebanese HOMES and neighborhoods.
Proof please.
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...Your people? What the fuck does that mean? Just answer me that before I go flying off the handle. And no, I'm not just watching Jazeera, I'm also reading the news online and taking quick glimpes of CNN. What I said was that I had stopped trusting CNN because all I'm seeing are whiny Israeli and frankly, I don't give a shit. I'm not just monitoring one station, stop making assumptions. And if you actually CAN seperate fact from fiction then you're not really doing a very good job with it.
I guess we need to teach you how to debate as well, this is tripe. Lets see, monitor news stations, but dont trust them, so thats really quite inmaterial. and then you tell me I cant separate fact from fiction, but you have yet to lay out one good argument.
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The Palestinians aren't pulling anything here...? Unless you're somehow referring to Hizbollah?
PALESTINIANS, they were getting land, Israel was pulling out, the peace process was working, Hamas went and fucked it up.
Oh I'm planning on fighting back. I've had an extremely sucky day though so I'm not going to bother replying to everything you've said that I disagree with. I have better things to do than talk to brick walls, no offense.
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The prisoners that Israel has are terrorists. If Israel had swapped prisoners, it would have only encouraged Hezbollah to abduct more Israelis.
People in Israeli jails are there because they kill or have been accused of killing Israelis. Hizbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers - since they are soldiers it is nearly certain that they have or will at some point in the future kill Arabs. All prisoners here are killers or potential killers. The only difference is that some belong to an organized army and some to a militia. I see no reason why people in Israeli prisons should be categorized as terrorists if Israeli soldiers are not. And before anyone says it, the Israeli army is notorious for killing civillians.
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Your from Jordan, surrounded by Muslims, you don't have to worry about terrorism per se on the same level that Israel does
That is so utterly offensive. You think that Arab countries don't have to deal with terrorism? Let me tell you something, Muslims aren't immune to terrorism because terrorism does not belong to Muslim ideals. I don't want to get off topic... Just don't make assumptions like that.
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how would you like it if the Russian army came in attacked your troops, then kidnapped a couple? I think there would be a legitimate gripe there.
Yeah, I wouldn't like it at all. But it wouldn't be enough incentive for Jordan to bomb the hell out of Russia. Can you honestly say that hypothetically you would support that kind of military action?
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The destruction of Hezballah is what the Israelis want, if they wanted to kill Lebanese citizens why would they drop leaflets on Beiruit telling citizens to stay away from Hezballah buildings and to seek shelter?
They drop leaflets and then have air raids on suburban homes. The leaflets are to keep the international community happy while they blow up entire families on opposite sides of the country from HIzbollah's headquarters. I'm genuinely surprised that dropping leaflets has actually impressed anyone.
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Their termination would be no great loss.
The fact that you can say that about entire countries shows me that there's no further use talking to you or trying to convince you of anything. You're just one of those people who holds no importance to human life apparently? Because that's just sad.
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Remember what I said about Hezballah being in the government? Yeah so government complexes are targets too.
I wasn't talking about government complexes, I was talking about Lebanese HOMES and neighborhoods.
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This world is only messed up because some of your people decided to make it that way. I love the way you claim to know the "truth" seeing how the only things you know come from AlJazeera... whereas I have hundreds of news agencies to peruse, so that i can separate fact from fiction. I would dare say it is you who are deaf dumb and blind.
...Your people? What the fuck does that mean? Just answer me that before I go flying off the handle. And no, I'm not just watching Jazeera, I'm also reading the news online and taking quick glimpes of CNN. What I said was that I had stopped trusting CNN because all I'm seeing are whiny Israeli and frankly, I don't give a shit. I'm not just monitoring one station, stop making assumptions. And if you actually CAN seperate fact from fiction then you're not really doing a very good job with it.
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I can not believe that while Israel was pulling out of the Gaza Strip and next was going to be the West Bank, yet the Palistinians after getting what they wanted are going to pull this.
The Palestinians aren't pulling anything here...? Unless you're somehow referring to Hizbollah?
And I'm not surprised if some Lebanese people are suddenly joining the site since you know, they can't leave homes or anything what are they going to do all day? Glad to see you guys still have electricity btw. And besides, I haven't been on here in forever but when there's an issue that you care about going on then you feel like talking about it sometimes.
~*The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.
I find it extremely ironic that in the recent days a war has developed and all of sudden a couple people from Lebanon mysteriously join this site. I dunno, seems a little weird to me...
"The story of my life. I always get the fuzzy end of the lollipop."
Oh good lord where to begin... this is gonna take a while.
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Originally posted by Sphinx: Wow Hydrok. You know, you and your entire country's blind support for Israel and everything they do is infuriating.
Blind, I think not, I support Israels right to defend itself from terrorist organizations. The Hezballah being one of them. They were made a state over 60 years ago, it's time for the middle east to grow up and move on. I can not believe that while Israel was pulling out of the Gaza Strip and next was going to be the West Bank, yet the Palistinians after getting what they wanted are going to pull this. If it was my country I would have erradicated the Palistinians and the Lebanese years ago and taken all the territory.
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No, Hizbollah shouldn't have taken those soldiers and yes, they probably do have an alterior motive, but if you think that Israel is DESTROYING Lebanon because of their two soldiers then you are the one who's missing the point.
No, no, I think my point stands perfectly. This isn't about two soldiers to begin with, it's about the political power play by the Hezballah and the direct attack on Israels soil... Your from Jordan, surrounded by Muslims, you don't have to worry about terrorism per se on the same level that Israel does, but how would you like it if the Russian army came in attacked your troops, then kidnapped a couple? I think there would be a legitimate gripe there. The destruction of Hezballah is what the Israelis want, if they wanted to kill Lebanese citizens why would they drop leaflets on Beiruit telling citizens to stay away from Hezballah buildings and to seek shelter?
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You think the Israeli army gives a rat's ass about these two guys? They've already lost about 14 Israelis (last I checked) and, as you so admire thier foreign policy, you should know that they are the coldest most calculating army in the world and they do not care about individuals of any nationality.
I dont think Israel gives a crap about two men, I think what they care about is again the political power play and presumtious prisoner exchange as well as being attacked on their side of the boarder.
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In my mind, this is all about Iran.
If it's about Iran then it's because either Iran provoked it to begin with or because Iran is supplying weapons as you point out.
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Israel comes out saying that the weapons being used against them are coming in from Iran and now the whole country can be labelled terrorist. And since the Iranian terrorists are now supplying the Lebanese terrorists, Israel can conjole Bush into continuing his fucking war on terror and bombing Iran. Or Syria. They're interchangeable for these governments. A Muslim is a Muslim right?
That was so run together I couldn't break it up... so do you think it's a lie that Iran is supplying weapons? I hope not because that would mean your ignorant, and the discussion should stop here. However we will assume for the moment that you are not, and let me assure you Israel does not need military support from the US at this point. War goods, yes, but they are purchasing them. Iran and Syria both have it coming to them, both are strong supporters of the Lebanese Hezballah and both have consistent trends of allowing terrorists to move freely inside their boarders as well as supplying foreign fighters to Iraq and Afghanistan. Their termination would be no great loss.
But you did get one thing right, if we attack Iran, or Syria, there will not be a US occupation nor a US funded rebuilding period... we will bomb them all back to the stone age and never look back.
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From what I understand about the Lebanese government, the Syrian influences are only now starting to be removed and the extreme sectarianism attitude has caused the country to be completely weak. Basically, they're like another Iraq. All the different groups hate each other and the country's state was fragile as it was. The Lebanese army is a joke, Hizbollah was the only thing to ever defend them and no, Lebanon doesn't have the power to force them to disarm.
Whether or not the Lebanese army can force Hezballah to disarm is inmaterial. The fact is that Hezballah still has parliment seats as well as places inside the prime ministers cabinet. What kind of government allows terrorists, that they were ordered to disarm by the UN, in the government... seems like a conflict of intrest to me.
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Nasrallah warned Israel that if they hit Beiruit, Hizbollah will hit Haifa.
Nasrallah is digging his grave.
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They hit Beiruit, so they hit Haifa. Hizbollah continues to hit Israeli targets but Israel isn't hitting Hizbollah targets. Israel is hitting LEBANESE civillian targets.
Remember what I said about Hezballah being in the government? Yeah so government complexes are targets too.
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They've hit the airports,
Oh for shame on you. The airports were hit so that they could not get the captured soldiers out of country. Also please explain to me that if the Israeli military is so unforgiving, why did they let out the former prime minister, he took off from the airport near Beiruit and then Israel shelled it to hell
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they've hit a hospital
Accidents happen, besides, there is more to that story such as how it was being used by Hezballah as a safe haven to store weapons.
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and, after giving a villiage an hour's notice to leave everything they own behind, they hit the fucking motorcade of cars leaving the doomed villiage.
Guess they didn't move with a damn sence of urgancy (military people insert laugh here)
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They've cut off the capital and they've messed up their ports.
It's called interdiction, it's what you do when you dont want anything in or out.
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You think this is about their soldiers? They've probably blown up their soldiers by now!
I think I've dispelled that rumor by now.
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This is insane! This isn't just a disproportionate reaction, this is an insanely aggressive and absolutely irrational reacation.
Ah yes it is quite appropriate, did you know that world war one was set off by the assassination of Ferdinand... one person.
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All I do all day long is watch the news with my parents (Stopped trusting CNN so it's mainly AlJazeera) because it's only innocent lives that are being lost.
AlJazeera is to Arabs as the O'Reilly Factor is to conservatives... Mental Masturbation
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My parents are freaking out because my sister is still at AUB and there is no fucking way to leave. She's waiting for the American citizens to be evacuated and since Bush is too busy talking about Syria and their shit (the little piece of white trash) no one is noticing the lives being lost. Homes in the suburbs are destoyed and the American media says that apparently Israel missed their target...Israel doesn't fucking miss. And then members of the Arab press reporting from Israel are being taken in to be questioned by the police twice a day to be harassed and scared out of covering the stories. I'm so sick of the way the truth is perverted on the news and the unbiased reporters are being taken in by the cops now? Whatever. This world is messed up.
This world is only messed up because some of your people decided to make it that way. I love the way you claim to know the "truth" seeing how the only things you know come from AlJazeera... whereas I have hundreds of news agencies to peruse, so that i can separate fact from fiction. I would dare say it is you who are deaf dumb and blind.
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Not a chance. You may remember Israel repeatedly saying that Hamas needs to recognize Israel before there can be peace; as soon as Hamas finally decides to, Israel changes the subject. Peace isn't what they want. I don't understand it but they just don't seem interested in anything but war. I say give them what they want.
Hamas never recognized Israel as a state, only did so by default when they conducted a prisoner exchange, and thats supposed to mean something, and out of the prisoners they released 80% were captured again inside of a year while conducting terrorist attacks on Israel.
So in short, please move along to something you can grasp, apparently this is not your forte.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: YNLissa,
Hey Drakoniss... living in Lebanon and staying in Lebanon Nice post Sphinx!
Israel's response is not proportionate to Hezbollah's offense... It was just waiting for an excuse. ...and what about the hundreds of Lebanese detainees? you don't see Lebanon bombing innocent citizens! If Israel's objective was really to get her soldiers back it could have simply swapped prisonners... YES, that simple!!
well hydrok, u think that u know everything, but guess what u dont. i dont think that there's much more to talk about, cz i guess that sphinx has already cover everything. we are living in the middle of the war, u r living in a imaginary & fancy one.
Sorry I got my numbers from a source that I find to be much more reliable than anything you have to offer... try the US J2. So dont argue semantics with me.
Also you can leave the imagery out of this, honestly, I dont care. Maybe they should have thought of all the people that would die before they went onto Israeli soil and captured soldiers. I don't see how anyone can expect Israel to react nicely. In fact I think it's the best foreign policy I've ever seen.
Poor Lebanon, I bet some one knows where these soldiers are, and they have the power to put an end to all of this, if they just give them back there wont be any more death.
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