I totally agree with JayAngelof2007, Killstar, and Earthgodess. That is how we should make our point. Great job and PEACE to all >>>

See the left side of the table here. The beginning of Exodus chapter 21 also has rules about how to pay for and keep servants (slaves).

"But I do know that there are parts of the Bible, which I'm familiar with, that preach that slavery is alright, and that women should be subordinate to men."

Where in the bible does it say that slavery is alright?

There seem to be two issues being discussed here: the justification of terrorism in the Islamic religion and the violent tendencies of all religions in general.

The point was briefly touched on by someone earlier that religions were inanimate institutions. To elaboarte, the Middle Eastern states that are currently the site of much of the terrrorism portrayed in the American media are inhabited by primarily Muslims, yes. This is a fact that cannot be denied. All numbers point to this conclusion. The conclusion that ignorant people draw from these numbers are that the people performing these acts are devout in their faith like we have been made to believe that they are.

Middle Eastern terrorists seek justification for their actions, and being raised in the Islamic faith, they believe that proclaiming their faith is the way to gain approval for their actions. In reality, the majority of the Muslim world is not in the same frame of mind as these terrorists that are using a religious institution which may have roots in violence or not as a platform for their actions.

If I dare to bring up the issue of the riots over the Danish cartoons, I point out that these riots are not based in the terroristic mindset that many other riots in those regions are based on. The riots and uproar in Palestine and other Islamic regions are based on people being offended by the fact that the Prophet was drawn, an act that is not permissible in their religion, and not just for the Prophet Muhhamed but for all other prophets as well, which includes Jesus and Abraham of the Christian and Jewish faiths. The Middle Eastern media has taken the publishing of these cartoons and turned it into a Western attack on the Islamic religion, just like the Western media has taken a liking to portraying all Muslims as terrorists, a fact that can easily be seen through some of the posts on this forum from people's misconceptions of the Islamic faith.

As for the violent tendencies of these terrorists being preached in the Qu'ran, it can be seen that some of the leaders are taking the text and interpreting it to justify their actions. By literal interpretation, it may be true. I will not say that I have read the Qu'ran, because I have not. But I do know that there are parts of the Bible, which I'm familiar with, that preach that slavery is alright, and that women should be subordinate to men. The Christian religion has evolved as time has gone on to realize that these teachings were pertinent to the time in which the Book was transcribed, but are no longer truth for the common time. Religions are reflections of society in which they are practiced, and therefore they change as the society changes. If you would like to explore that, feel free, I'm not going to go into detailing the evolutions of religions here. The texts of a religion should be used as a guidebook of overall morals, not a strict code that details how every situation should be handled. Most religions have people that believe in literal interpretation, which can lead to people attempting to use religious texts for their own justification, such as the middle Eastern extremists and the KKK in the US.

If you would like to continue this discussion with me specifically, I can be reached through email: lauraangel_2001@hotmail.com

There are no true religious wars in this world nor have there been many. Religion is juat an excuse for war. That is what these terrorists do, they use the religion of Islam to fight political conflicts. Many of the radical islamists and other people who believe that islam is violent use quotes from the Koran that are taken out of context. Therefore, in no way does the koran nor Islam justify the violent actions and transgression of the terrorists.

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Originally posted by ampmaster:
quite diffrent from what you made it out to be.

The "Scriptures" say a lot of things, depending on who's doing the interpreting. Hell, they've been through maybe a dozen core translations over the centuries - I'm sure that, read in their original language, the range of possible interpretations expands exponentially.

So, are there Christian terrorists who followed the Scriptures? Depends on who's interpreting what the Scriptures say.

What I was trying to say earlier was that, while many Christians would say that Christian terrorists break the rules of Scripture, many Muslims would say that Islamic terrorists break the rules of the Koran. So, in both cases, the terrorists are widely considered to be blasphemous. So, again, no inherent difference between Christianity and Islam in terms of promoting violence.

So, this is what I have to say:

Oh yes. The religion is to blame for everything. It’s the cause of all problems.


I was just reading some of the posts was put off at the ignorance and carelessness of them. The thinking and the remarks, are not well-researched and are amateur. The points are not justified, as they are a result of mainstream media's influence on “your” thinking and mannerism; you [those who feel Islam is violet], my dear, are simply a pawn who has been brainwashed my mainstream society.

You cannot blame a religion for the fall of a particular society, as a religion in inanimate and unable to do anything itself. Religion, itself, is simply a human manifestation, just as, arguably, is the devil. Now tell me how it is possible for a religion to be the cause of destruction? Has the religion taken a solid form, and gunned down innocents- has a religion caused wars, by bringing about its minions and wearing large boots, meant for trampling over the homes of others? The answer is no. That, my dear, is not possible. It is humans who have partaken in such events. Humans, who have skinned each other for ages, have separated each other by anything possible- colour, race, gender, religion, sexuality. Humans have no one to blame but themselves.

Every religion has its extremists. For thousands of years, cults from various religions, most of which are sub-genres of Christianity, or so these cults seem to believe, have undergone mass suicides, killing hundreds. From 1095-1291, during the crusades, Muslims, Jews and other non-Christians were massacred at large. During Witch Trials, hundreds were prosecuted for being "heathens" at the hands of Puritans. This sort of endeavour has been happening for hundreds of years. The Ku Klux Klan consists of Protestant, middle-aged white men; how many thousands have they killed over the years? One of many incidences, in 1946 Jewish-Zionist terrorists bombed The King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 people. From then on began a slew og endless murders, all in the name of Judaism. In 1980, Rabbi Meir Kahane formed a terrorist group/politcal party called Kach, determined to exterminated all non-Jews in Israel. It later split into two movements, Kach and Kahane Chai, and greatly supported Baruch Goldstein's killing of Arabs at the Cave of the Patriarchs.

Other groups are as following:

The Nagaland Rebels. Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004.

Aum Shinrikyo was a religious group which mixed Buddhist and Hindu beliefs and was based in Japan. It gained international notoriety in 1995, when a group of followers carried out a poison gas attack on the Tokyo subways.

The Babbar Khalsa is a militant group considered to be among the oldest and most prominent of Sikh organisations calling for the formation of an independent Sikh state.

Other Christian terrorists: James Charles Kopp's shooting of abortion provider Dr. Barnett Slepian, and the tactics of strategic rape, and abduction and conscription of children by the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda.

These are just some of the hundreds that I could name.

"Regrettably, many terrorists groups have used the name Islam to promote their cause and this gave many non-Muslims a chance to asperse Islam and label the Muslims as terrorists. Deliberately ignored on the other hand, are terrorists who happen to be Christians or Jews.

There are a lot of similarities between Muslim and Christian extremists - but why is it that some Christians only criticize Islam as being a "religion of violence"? Perhaps because the connections between those Christians and the Christian terrorists are so close that it would be unwise to draw any attention to it, so it's better just to pretend that only Islam is violent."

This can be said alongside with Judaism. Every religion has its discrepancies, Islam is not an exception. However, neither are Catholicism and any other spawn of Christianity, and Judaism. However, the religions, while flawed, are not to blame, as aforementioned, they are not animate. One can blame the people, and the people only, for they are the ones who make the decisions to terrorize. Every religion has its terrorists; some simply gain more attention than others, a result of the mass media, bigotry, and as [you] have shown us, ignorance.

Now please, shut up before someone else proves you [all] wrong again.

P.S I'm agnostic.

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We only follow the Ten Commandments and what jesus instructed that is why you dont see christians offer sheep and cattle to god. That is what the Jews do.

The word you should have used there was "did".
Do you know anything about Judaism at all? Jews don't offer animal (or plant for that matter) sacrifices anywhere! Do you know why? I'll tell you: Because the Temple in Israel (where sacrifices were brought) was destroyed and two Islamic mosques were built on the site (trying to reclaim the site could potentially start a jihad).
What is in its place you may ask? I'll quote an excellent Judaism reference book, Jewish Literacy by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin (which you should seriously look into reading) :

"The great first-century rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai revolutionized Jewish thinking with his pronouncement that acts of loving-kindness now superceded sacrifices as the preferred way of attaining God's forgiveness. In addition to deeds of loving-kindness, the Talmud later taught that 'studying of Torah is a greater act than bringing daily sacrifices' (Megillah 3b). Indeed, from the Jewish perspective, the Christian emphasis on the atoning sacrifice and atoning blood of Jesus is regarded as a throwback to human sacrifice."

Well, how about that? Judaism isn't as primitive as you thought, is it?

oh my reading comprehension?
this is the orgional quote

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I would like you to name some Christian Terrorists , EarthGoddess, That followed what the scripture said

quite diffrent from what you made it out to be.

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Maybe overseas but not in America. Because it's ILLEGAL.

not overseas my friends have family in Israel and they never told me about their cousins offering a sacrifice. I can ask if you want but I know that they'll laugh and ask where the hell I heard that.

quote:

Originally posted by ampmaster:
now that was out of context she was asking about christian terroists that followed the scripture

Again with that trouble with the reading comprehension. I'm sure there are lots of radical preachers who would say that the bombers were the ones following the scriptures, and any that allow abortion to continue through inaction are the actual false Christians (Fred Phelps, anyone?).

Religion is entirely about interpretation, and any text can be read as saying anything by those with the inclination. Unless you apply scientific rigour as a test of "truth" (replicable experiments with reasonably consistent results), you can have no real baseline of "reality" - except for one that you arbitrarily establish yourself.

So, not out of context.

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Originally posted by wookiemlm:
Yes. They do still offer sacrifices. That is the priests do.

Well, that shows what you know about Judaism. Those aren't "priests" - those are "rabbis". Maybe you've been watching something else, thinking it's Judaism? Possibly a tumble dryer?

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I am saying that its against the christian religion to do that. And alot of people call themselves christians that doesnt mean you are one. Most ppl are christians when they feel like being one. Or just on sunday. But during the week they do whatever they want.

It wasn't against the Christian religion back then - ask the Pope. You're setting yourself up as the sole arbiter of who is and isn't "Christian" or "Muslim" - what, exactly, gives you the right to do that?

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I am asking him/her. To show me a terrorist that followed every rule in the bible not breaking one. You wont find one.

Alrigt - show me a Muslim terrorist who didn't break any rules of Islam. I can find plenty of Imams who will tell you that such acts contradict the Quran. So kindly shut your ignorant mouth about Islam being inherently violent - at least until you can come up with something coherent to say.

All the fixing in the world couldn't bring up your comprehension.

quote:

too literally

It's not that hard. You can do it. (I'm not insulting you)

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Originally posted by EarthGoddess:
I know. But I thought that if you read my perfect logic again, it might sink in.

Nope sorry its floating.Soooo Why dont you take it back and try to fix it a bit so it will sink.

I know. But I thought that if you read my perfect logic again, it might sink in.

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Like I said. They follow the bible, but they follow it TOO LITERALLY!!!! Do you even know what the word "Literal" means?

I was not asking you to answer the question again.

Since wookie can't seem to understand what I say, I'll repost:

quote:

The Bible and the Quran are both violent. The Muslim Terrorists in the Middle East took the voilent parts of the Quran literally. Christians in the past (and today) did the same thing with the bible, and killed millions upon millions of people in the name of God throughout history. The KKK is basically a white supremacist Christian cult. They want America to be a White Christian utopia. And all those people that bomb abortion clinics and kill abortion doctors, are Christian. And those people that used the bible to protect their right to own slaves. They follow the bible, but too literally. Just like Muslim terrorists follow the Quran too literally.

Let me guess, "Oh, but they aren't Christian." Well then, using that logic, aren't the Muslim terrorists, not Muslim?

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Yes. They do still offer sacrifices. That is the priests do.

Maybe overseas but not in America. Because it's ILLEGAL.

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I am asking him/her. To show me a terrorist that followed every rule in the bible not breaking one. You wont find one.

Like I said. They follow the bible, but they follow it TOO LITERALLY!!!! Do you even know what the word "Literal" means?

Since Christians aren't supposed to follow certain parts of the bible, what makes you so sure Muslims aren't supposed to follow certain parts of the Quran? If terroristic Christians aren't Christian, then aren't terroristic Muslims not Muslim? Why is that so hard to understand? Have you ever heard of Extremism?

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Muslims are the most law-abiding citizens of the Western World. The crime rate among Muslims in North America is the least among all ethnic groups.

Muslims Against Terrorism

I'm sorry... have you read the bible? Have you in fact read any religous works at all? By those arguments all religons are highly violent.

To discuss christianity specifically... ok, so yeah, in the bible it says "do not kill" but it also says "an eye for an eye" Hell, do you have any idea how many of the US wars and other things are infulenced by christianity? Think about it...
Further, you're combining the religon with the actions of the state, the state is violent and wants the religon to condone that violence, thus the religon is molded to be that. Just as say, if I told you that "We invaded Iraq to save the godless atheists who deserve to be killed" (No, I don't at all believe that) But it would be the same thing.
Altho, to be honest, I do actually think all religons are violent, actually, religon just shouldn't exist. I really am mostly a subcriber to Marxist opiate of the masses when it comes to religon... that being said

Islam is no more or less violent then any other religon

Indeed parts of the Qu'ran show non-peaceful tendencies. Who says Islam has to be peaceful? The Muslim culture has always been a bit warlike as a direct result of their tribal roots. One tribe would war against another in a battle over food, water, religion, and so on. This naturally carried through into Islam when Muhammad preached the Qu'ran in Arabia, converting the tribes to Islam.

Thus, in order to appease the more skeptical tribe members, the Qu'ran has strict rules of war and harsh punishments, much as the older tribal religions did. The Old Testament of the Bible is very much the same.

Of course, peace is a rather unrealistic ideal. It's in our genes to fight, whether it be over resources or mates.

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Good Lord, what in holy hell are you talking about?!? You've seen sacrifices in synagogues?

I agree what the hell? I have a lot of jewish friends and I haven't seen any of them slaughter live stock for God

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quote:

Terrorists , EarthGoddess, That followed what the scripture said.

Oh, I see - clinic bombers and gay bashers aren't Christians, because you say so. Just as suicide bombers are Muslims, because you say so. Perfectly sound reasoning, there.

now that was out of context she was asking about christian terroists that followed the scripture