wow. i'm just shocked that you can't see that irony and hypocrisy are the same thing. and in my case (irony) worked better. lol you hate being wrong. it's funny.

idiots i swear.

Somehow, somewhere I knew Someguy would appear lolzl.

Yes I would like to debate the foreign policy of the US but as you see from my evidence you and I are most likely on the same side.

So as I said before, unless someone can actually debate something this is another pointless thread.

lol how did i lose a debate. there was no debate. you didn't provide any evidence to the contrary of mine, so in the terms of real debates (no idea what the hell you're talking about) that means I win. lolzzzzzz

Generally in debates. one person states their side and then the other has a rebuttal with facts.

I stated my side. you have not stated you're rebuttal nor your side. So if this were a debate I would be the winner.

Perhaps I'll play devil's advocate with you someguy since i'm obviously not going to get a semi-decent response out of these bozos.

also missnewlove. abba here was actually the one who started bashing my opinion first in case you didn't notice. not that it matters. i don't mind if fools bash my opinions.

You know Wolfie, I love how nobody responded to any of the facts you presented. They completely ignored it and focused on things like this whole hyporcrisy-irony game.

I mean they literally ignored every single fact you posted. They're accusing you of being immature, now that it hypocrisy. Please dont respond to that with another hypocrisy-irony rant.

Whats even more ridiculous is they demand you to present evidence and ridicule for not doing so, and once you do they completely forget they asked for it.

quote:

Here is the way it works in the real world: You make the preposterous claim, you back it up. You espouse bullshit, i called you on it, now you defend it with specific citable examples. You don't get to write a research paper for your middle school history class without providing where you got your information.

Let me get this straight so i know whether to come back to this thread or not. Does anybody here want to debate US foreign policy and the US government or are we just gonna fool around? And if we do debate US foreign policy, then when the time comes where i do prove my point will you acknowledge it or will you find something to change the subject with?

quote:

all Abaddon did was state their opinion wich is the whole purpose

A wise man once told me, and in fact directed the following statement at me. His exact words were "You might be entitled to your own opinion "SomeGuy", but that doesnt mean its worth crap".

Wolfie; I both agree with you, and I disagree with you. No, I don't support the war, and no I wish we could bring our troops home. But I still support /our/ troops. They are all there for their own personal reasons, and it's not my place to judge them on that.

And also the " I am for peace and love" that you added to the bottom of you post was easily contradicted by your next entry. If you were truly fo peace and love, you would not have responded in that way, all Abaddon did was state their opinion wich is the whole purpose. If you are not willing to hear from people of different opinions then you are in the wrong place. And if you want to say that you stand for love and peace; then do not turn around and cuss someone out for disagreeing.

quote:

wtf are you talking about irony is hypocrisy. they're the same thing. stop being such an idiot.

Irony the same as hypocrisy... don't think I've laughed that hard in a while. Way to fail at the English language.


Hypocrisy
a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not ; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

Irony
: incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result

I admit to being a hypocrite, but I'm not witty enough to be ironic. Nor are you sharp enough to see the difference.


Really, wolfie, when you fail epically at debating, you don't resort to calling everyone stupid, because your pride was so horribly wounded. To those experienced in the fine art of debate, which you obviously aren't, that signals the loser.

You can't honestly call our troops dunderheads and expect people not to get angry and bitch you out, as you certainly deserved. (Many members of this site have close relatives that have died serving in Iraq) You insist on acting like a 12 year old, and acting like no one could possibly be as educated as you are (ahem, Pre-med student here). And surprise, surprise when someone is, time to call them stupid.

My goal was not to prove you wrong, because as I said before I AGREE THAT THE U.S. HAS DONE BAD THINGS, I DO NOT, WILL NOT AND CAN NOT DISPUTE THAT. My goal was to take that ego of yours and beat it down a few notches, which I and Abaddon successfully did. If you can't have an intellectual conversation without it, then you doomed your own thread from the start.

Remember, there's only one Wolf bitch on YN, and it ain't you.

quote:

Oh dear Earth Goddess I have found the icing on the proverbial cake... You know that book that she is always talking about, re-reading America. It was written by a bunch of really bad comedians. To be funny, Like Jon Stewart's novel "America" Economy inaction


Her sources coming from that book can all be thrown away.

For some reason, that doesn't surprise me. And even if it's not meant to be funny, I noticed it's extremely biased and her info can be thrown out just for that alone.

You know what. Maybe you shouldn't start shit with people. I think that's the main problem with America. Everyone has to start shit with someone.

Abdomine had to just be an asshole towards me saying "i pretend to be educated" when he has never contributed any information about this topic. Wow, what a productive discussion. At least I can be a douche and give evidence at the same time, which is a skill you clearly do not possess. Seriously, you make me laugh, rereading america isn't written by just comedians it's written by a multitude of authors that are sociologists, scholars, analysists, etc.

And seriously dirt god who the hell asked you to come in here and start acting like you've had a pole driven through the front of your brain? I'm trying to discuss all the atrocities that America has done and will continue to do unless the American people wise up and say no and you come along telling me to shut the fuck up and to not act like a god and then you go "the goddess has spoken" yeah all you did was shit all over the thread and contribute absolutely nothing useful at all.

wtf are you talking about irony is hypocrisy. they're the same thing. stop being such an idiot.

lol, when I told you to get out of this thread it's because you don't have anything useful to say except "I am stupid but I think I'm smart cause my name is earth goddess"

All I wanted was to talk about what our country needs to do in order to be better and to be more liked by the other countries of the world. But no, this idiot had to come along and act like every other ignorant fool in America and then you had to come along and do the same thing.

I love how none of you respond to any of the evidence I cited.

That's why I didn't want to waste my time doing all that because I knew that to fools it would go right over their heads. which it apparently did.

Now I'm done arguing with two morons because obviously neither of you are going to grow a brain and learn anything. So unless someone actually contributes information to the discussion I'd like to have or eloquently responds to my data I'm just not going to post here anymore. Congratulations for being so stupid that you killed what could have been an excellent conversation.

quote:

Originally posted by EarthGoddess:

quote:

you just said everyone knows that the us has done horrible things. well guess what? we SHOULD all know, but most Americans don't.

And you think treating people like they're below you is going to help?

quote:

I'm not acting like "god" because I read. (lol irony earth GODDESS)I'm trying to say I don't get facts from the internet.

I think you should open up a dictionary and look up and note the differences between irony and hypocrisy.

While you're at it, look up the term paradox.

Since you're so enlightened that you don't need to get your facts from the internet, why should anyone read the "facts" you just posted on an internet forum and take it as fact? Wouldn't you then be encouraging them to do what you've been putting them down for? How can you just assume that the internet "facts" that others have gotten don't come from books, like the quotes you just quoted? Paradox, indeed.

quote:

I read I'm just telling this idiot that before he runs his mouth to me he should maybe look up for himself what the us has done.

What makes you so sure he hasn't? Because he didn't read the exact same books you have? Because he simply disagrees with you? You've already incorrectly assumed his political views. Don't ever assume you know everything about the people you're debating with or you lose all credibility and one will take you seriously.

quote:

seriously get the hell out of this thread if you're not going to contribute any information except for the fact that you're pms-ing.

You first.

Honestly though, that seemed to translate more into: Support me or GTFO. You'd certainly sing a different tune if I decided to bitch at Abaddon instead. I really didn't mean to let my emotions get the best of me and fall down to your condescending level. It won't happen again.

quote:

noooo really we aren't the first country to mess up woooowww. The problem is that America's fuck ups affect the ENTIRE MODERN WORLD.

Fixed that for you.

And of course WWI and WWII was totally our fault. And it's completely our fault that certain ethnic groups hate each other and would slaughter each other with or without our help.

We've totally never done anything good for anyone. Ever. Taking in millions of refugees from war-torn countries and giving them homes, college scholarships and jobs? Psshhh, never.

quote:

Alrighty, now that I wasted a good 30 minutes on both you. how about you give me some evidence to the contrary or are you just going to continue being rude to me for no reason?

People are only being rude to you because you're being a smug douche-bag. No one likes a smug douche-bag. And I never said I didn't believe the U.S. has done horrible things, but like I said, there's not much I can do about it and while I don't like our corrupt government, I know it can be A LOT worse. Ac-cent-chu-ate the positive and whatnot.

quote:

fyi, if you come out to me and start talking like a douche, I'm sorry, I'm going to be a douche back to you.

Ah, spoken like a true 12 year old. Good job.

Oh dear Earth Goddess I have found the icing on the proverbial cake... You know that book that she is always talking about, re-reading America. It was written by a bunch of really bad comedians. To be funny, Like Jon Stewart's novel "America" Economy inaction

Her sources coming from that book can all be thrown away.

quote:

you just said everyone knows that the us has done horrible things. well guess what? we SHOULD all know, but most Americans don't.

And you think treating people like they're below you is going to help?

quote:

I'm not acting like "god" because I read. (lol irony earth GODDESS)I'm trying to say I don't get facts from the internet.

I think you should open up a dictionary and look up and note the differences between irony and hypocrisy.

While you're at it, look up the term paradox.

Since you're so enlightened that you don't need to get your facts from the internet, why should anyone read the "facts" you just posted on an internet forum and take it as fact? Wouldn't you then be encouraging them to do what you've been putting them down for? How can you just assume that the internet "facts" that others have gotten don't come from books, like the quotes you just quoted? Paradox, indeed.

quote:

I read I'm just telling this idiot that before he runs his mouth to me he should maybe look up for himself what the us has done.

What makes you so sure he hasn't? Because he didn't read the exact same books you have? Because he simply disagrees with you? You've already incorrectly assumed his political views. Don't ever assume you know everything about the people you're debating with or you lose all credibility and one will take you seriously.

quote:

seriously get the hell out of this thread if you're not going to contribute any information except for the fact that you're pms-ing.

You first.

Honestly though, that seemed to translate more into: Support me or GTFO. You'd certainly sing a different tune if I decided to bitch at Abaddon instead. I really didn't mean to let my emotions get the best of me and fall down to your condescending level. It won't happen again.

quote:

noooo really we aren't the first country to mess up woooowww. The problem is that America's fuck ups affect the ENTIRE MODERN WORLD.

Fixed that for you.

And of course WWI and WWII was totally our fault. And it's completely our fault that certain ethnic groups hate each other and would slaughter each other with or without our help.

We've totally never done anything good for anyone. Ever. Taking in millions of refugees from war-torn countries and giving them homes, college scholarships and jobs? Psshhh, never.

quote:

Alrighty, now that I wasted a good 30 minutes on both you. how about you give me some evidence to the contrary or are you just going to continue being rude to me for no reason?

People are only being rude to you because you're being a smug douche-bag. No one likes a smug douche-bag. And I never said I didn't believe the U.S. has done horrible things, but like I said, there's not much I can do about it and while I don't like our corrupt government, I know it can be A LOT worse. Ac-cent-chu-ate the positive and whatnot.

quote:

fyi, if you come out to me and start talking like a douche, I'm sorry, I'm going to be a douche back to you.

Ah, spoken like a true 12 year old. Good job.

ok here i'll take time out of my life to site shit that most people should know.

earth goddess what the hell are you smoking?

you just said everyone knows that the us has done horrible things. well guess what? we SHOULD all know, but most Americans don't. for example the person with whom i was just posting. I'm not acting like "god" because I read. (lol irony earth GODDESS)I'm trying to say I don't get facts from the internet. I read I'm just telling this idiot that before he runs his mouth to me he should maybe look up for himself what the us has done. seriously get the hell out of this thread if you're not going to contribute any information except for the fact that you're pms-ing.

noooo really we aren't the first country to mess up woooowww. The problem is that America's fuck ups affect the ENTIRE WORLD.

alrighty. just prepare to be blown away. i, wolfie, will now cite my evidence. this could take awhile. you're friggin lucky i'm wasting this much time on this shit.

"American enforced economic sanctions have, since 1991, caused the deaths of at least 350,000 iraqi children and impoverished a once prosperous Iraqi middle class." A Hard Look at Iraq Sanctions by David Cortright, the nation, 12/31/01

"A poll conducted in 2002 by the University of Maryland found that only 32% of Americans knew that more palestines than israelis had died fighting. 43% knew that the rest of the world disapproved of America's Middle East Policies and only 27% knew that most countries are sympathetic to the palestines." poll conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at UM. availible at www.pipa.org

"The Us shot down an Iranian civilian jet mistaking it for a military craft. All 290 passengers died. When Bush senior was asked to apologize he replied, 'I will never apologize for the United States. I don't care what the facts are.'" rereading america, "the oblivious empire" by Mark Hertzgaard

What's funny about that is that five years earlier the Russian's shot down a Korean civilian jet, killing 276 and the US used this as evidence to continue it's war against an "evil empire." Rereading America

"In 1998 the Clinton adminstration launched cruise missiles against Iraq. This was considered by the rest of the world as completely unnecessary. Then secretary of state, Madeleine Albright said "If we have to use force, it is because we are America. We are the indispensable nation. We see farther into the future." rereading america

"Dick Cheney voted against releasing Nelson Mandela from prison in 1985." Joe Conason, salon.com, 8/1/00 I know this is slightly irrelvant but he was our vice president...

"Washington's might-makes-right view of such matters was succinctly expressed by Henry Kissinger when, as Nixion's national security adviser, he privately defended overthrowing the elected government of Chile by saying he saw no reason why the US had to allow Chile to "go Marixist" simply because "its people were irresponsible.' Voluminous government documents show that the CIA ordered a coup in 1970 that had failed to thwart Allende and in 1973, had actively aided the Chilean military men who, under future (us chosen) dictator General Pinochet, imposed martial law and eventually killed 3,197 chilean citizens." The Case against Henry Kissinger. by Christopher Hitchens, Harper Magazine. March 2001.

What's odd about this is that the day the coup began was 9/11.

"In Guatemala, a truth commission sponsored by the UN concluded that 'American training of the officer corps in counterinsurgency techniques was a key factor in a genocide that included the killing of 200,000 peasants.'" Findings from the Commission for Historical Clarification. Can be found in the book "Blowback: The costs and consequences of American Empire." by Chalmers Johnson.

"In 2002, Samantha Powers published a book, A Problem from hell, that meticulously documented how Washington deliberately chose not to intervene against some of the worst acts of genocide in the 20th century including Pol Pot's rampages in Cambodia, ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and tribal slaughter in Rwanda and Sudan." Each of these resulted in the killing of about 500,000 to 800,000 people. Rereading America

Nice right, we go save a few thousand but we decide not to save a few hundred thousand.

"1997 report from the Pentagon's Defense Science Board said 'Historical data show a strong correlation between US involvement in international situations and an increase in terrorist attacks against the US.' A glaring example of this is the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979. To protect American oil interests the CIA in 1953 overthrew the elected government of Iran and installed Shah Reza Pahlavi.(Then director of the CIA, William Colby, described this as the CIA's greatest moment) The shah ruled with an iron hand, murdered thousands, duly became widely hated, and was forced from power in 1979. Residual Iranian anger led to an attack on the US embassy in Tehran and the seizure of 54 hostages." Endless Enemies, Kwitny. pgs 161-78

" The CIA supported Osama bin Laden from at least 1984 as part of its funding of the mujahideen, the Islamic resitance to the USSR's occupation of Afghanistan. The CIA funneled its support for bin Laden and other mujahideen, including building the complex where bin Laden trained some 35,000 followers. But bin Laden turned against the US after the 1991 Persian Gulf War, when "infidel" American troops were stationed on the Islamic holy ground of Saudi Arabia to prop up its authoritarian regime." Blowback, by Kwitny


The main point I am trying to make here is that American's have their heads up their asses. We are so absorbed with our daily lives that we don't care about America's foreign policy. We think we are the liberators, the spreaders of democracy, when in reality we simply bully other countries into doing what we want. We need to be more self-aware and courteous towards other countries or else they will (as most of them already have) resent the US. Plus how arrogant do you think we appear to other countries? We go in take away their leader, give them another that kills thousands of them and we don't even think it is our fault and we just disregard it.

Alrighty, now that I wasted a good 30 minutes on both you. how about you give me some evidence to the contrary or are you just going to continue being rude to me for no reason?

fyi, if you come out to me and start talking like a douche, I'm sorry, I'm going to be a douche back to you. you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, lolzz

So dirt-goddess, abdomine, please put up or shut up.

yes it wuz their choice 2 go fite in the war, but thay only do it so that we dont get invaded nd loze all of our land, u shood b thankful that it aint like the old timez nd that we dont hav 2 make 1 person from each family fite in the war. i dont think the war iz rite either but wot r we spozed 2 do? just let them murder us all? NO! thatz gay nd stupid. we kaint alwayz hav world peace nd wot we want in the world, sometimez we hav 2 fite 4 our rightz, if we didnt then women wood hav no rightz, we wood still b in England, nd the world wood b WAY worse, dont even act like the world kan work without war, koz in some kasez, we need it!

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfie:
lol, i don't assume much. you were speaking of the US in right winged terms so it is only natural for one to think that is what you are, silly.

See, I don't use the internet to get facts. Too much human error.

I read. a lot. why don't you go to the library and look in a history book about the US that isn't written from the US viewpoint and you will see the incidents I am talking about.

A good one is "rereading america."

I just gave evidence. If you don't believe my facts then look them up for yourself. I'm not going to waste my time citing every resource that I have seen stating what I said. Just because you're an idiot who doesn't know what America has done to other countries doesn't mean I'm going to bother educating you. Most people are incapable of being educated especially when all they can do is be hostile and deny deny deny.

lolz you really should read more.

oh here's some evidence. did you know thousands more palestines have been killed by israelites than the other way around? and who does the US choose to fund? The people who came in and kicked the palestines out of their home.

seriously, this really is what is wrong with the US. goodness i hate ignorance.

Here is the way it works in the real world: You make the preposterous claim, you back it up. You espouse bullshit, i called you on it, now you defend it with specific citable examples. You don't get to write a research paper for your middle school history class without providing where you got your information.

lol you need to read more.

I love how right wingists just dismiss all the shit that the US has done to hurt the world.

umm i guess you don't get jokes. lol president obama will legalize marijuana. i think you should smoke weed that way you can stop being a douchey person and just learn tolerance towards others and how to be a productive member of society.

obviously you are one who does not question authority. you merely are herded and goaded like a sheep towards whatever views the authorities want you to believe.

i love how people who can't think for themselves really don't think at all.

by the by I wasn't talking about the conflict with the philipines from the turn of the century. I am talking about when Bush Senior was head of the CIA he sent soldiers to random philipino villages and had them nepalmed.

you say "so" to the fact that we have been responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people. Don't you think that those families will retaliate? Oh wait they already have hence 9/11.

did you know we have killed 350,000 Iraqi children since the gulf? if you don't believe me that's fine. I don't expect you too because you seem like the type who just believes whatever fox news tells you to believe rather than reading books.

lol, see this is exactly what's wrong with America. dumb people think we have this god given right to control the world when in reality we don't. Someday something worse than 9/11 will happen if we keep doing shit like the war in Iraq or treating other countries like they are completely below us.

we're all people and America needs to realize that if it truly wants to be the leader of the world.

Oh dear wolfie, you have stepped into some shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfie:
I love how close-minded people fear me. lol

Fear you? I know you are not talking about me.

quote:

john kerry?? you mean President Obama.

No I mean the John Kerry if you can't figure that out then I guess you are not as smart as you think you are.

quote:

Bush Senior did send troops to filipino tribes and had every man, woman and child napalmed.

Bush Sr. didn't invade the Philippines that happened from 1901 to 1913. They were granted independence in 1935. No napalm was used in Iraq in the first gulf war either. The substance used is called White Phosphorous and is used because it burns at a high temperature and can be used to guide IR rockets, or to make a landmark for helos to converge on.

Just for reference George H.W. Bush was president from 1989 to 1993.

quote:

the U.S. isn't perfect. Over the years we have funded various tyrants and organizations that have caused massive genocides in countries like guatemala and rwanda.

Your point is?

quote:

We even used to fund bin Laden during the 70's because he was the leader of a group set to keep communism out of Pakistan.

I'm glad you have seen Charlie Wilson's War. Also, thanks for providing that superiorly over-simplified explanation.

quote:

lol are you educated? because your post would make an english teacher shudder.

Classic YNer when you cant beat them with common sense or a sharp wit, make fun of their English. (notice that English has a capital E dumbass)

I love how close-minded people fear me. lol

john kerry?? you mean President Obama.

Bush Senior did send troops to filipino tribes and had every man, woman and child nepalmed.

the U.S. isn't perfect. Over the years we have funded various tyrants and organizations that have caused massive genocides in countries like guatemala and rwanda. We even used to fund bin Laden during the 70's because he was the leader of a group set to keep communism out of Pakistan. The US has a lot of skeletons in it's closet and that's why so many countries hate us. We go around bullying smaller countries "for our safety" and then we act like we are purely liberators. it is no wonder that 9/11 happened. if we would just pull our heads out of our asses and start negogiating instead of threatening then maybe we wouldn't have this whole "war on terror."

lol are you educated? because your post would make an english teacher shudder.

You see what the real problem is here?

The problem here is that you have a bunch of people shooting off the mouth without knowing what they are talking about. You want to pretend like you are educated, Wolfie and Romashu,but Bush Sr. didn't invade Afghanistan, and Wolfie, stop smoking the John Kerry.

Have a hot day
Abbadon

why doesn't anyone ever get what i am saying.

did i ever say "soldiers started the war in iraq" no. but they are supporting that war by fighting in it. if no one was willing to fight then this war wouldn't have happened because it would not have been what the american people wanted.

how does killing other humans protect me?

it doesn't. this war hasn't affected my physical life in any way shape or form. do i believe that if someone invaded us we should fight, well duh of course because then my home is threatened. do i believe we should just go out and invade other countries on a whim? no because i don't like useless killing or wasting the taxpayers money.

Don't forget that many people sign up to be in the military because they come from lower socio-economic backgrounds and don't have a lot options.

Yes, they are volunteers, but they're not choosing to start the wars, they're just following orders.

quote:

Originally posted by Hoopdawg08:

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
you're in unless you do someone to warrant an other-than-honorable discharge and suffer the consequences.

someone?

I know this re-post is childish, but ... I'm childish ;D

Curses! That makes it sound very dirty...although, homosexual conduct is grounds for mandatory discharge. So...yeah, I meant it that way.

Anyways, I actually meant "something" (as is probably obvious) and I was tired enough to not notice my typo.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
you're in unless you do someone to warrant an other-than-honorable discharge and suffer the consequences.

someone?

I know this re-post is childish, but ... I'm childish ;D

Blame the brass, not the grunts.

When you're in the military, you don't have much of a choice when it comes to following orders. Sure, you can refuse, but then you have to suffer the consequences of being demoted, court-martialed, or even dishonorably discharged.

Think that's no big deal? Dishonorable discharges negate all veteran's benefits (including the right to use VA hospitals and benefit from the GI Bill) and often make it hard to find employment outside of the military, as soldiers who are dishonorably discharged are considered felons. This also means the right to vote may be temporarily or even permanently revoked.

The majority of people who signed up for the military did so to serve their country. They did not sign up to do harm to those who did not threaten the United States. But once you're in, you're in unless you do someone to warrant an other-than-honorable discharge and suffer the consequences.

Think about that before automatically labeling all soldiers as murders.

I agree our military is pointless when we start our own wars.

Bush Senior sent troops into afganistan and his son the retard sent in more troops and an extra leigon in iraq.

If we could just learn to mind our own business we wouldnt be in this predicament.