Did anyone see the 60 Minutes II last night about the Iraqi prisoners who were tortured? It was mortally disgusting.
For those of you who didn't see it, pictures were found of smiling, pointing American soldiers posing with nude and beaten Iraqi prisoners whom they had blindfolded and put in numerous sexual positions. One had about 8 or 9 naked Iraqis stacked in a pyramid. Others were placed so it looked like one was giving another oral sex, and others placed in orgy fashion. There were also stories told of young boy prisoners who were raped by guards, and others that were attacked by dogs released by the American soldiers. When an inspector went to the prison, he saw a naked prisoner with a wire wrapped around his testicles. Seeing this totally mortified me.
Those American soldiers who were running the prison are now facing court marshalls, but I believe what they've done will hurt America much more than it hurt those prisoners. What about when those Iraqis are released and go back to their friends and family, and tell them how horrible and hostile Americans are? How can we expect to win the hearts of the country we're occupying if they all think we are cruel perverts? They will rebel more than they already are.
Those images are now being released. How will America be viewed to the rest of the world, and more importantly, how will other countries react when we need their support?

it is so easy for people to just dump biological and chemical weapons into the ground.

as for other weapons, i would not put it passed saddam to have them hiddent somewhere (syria)
or even somewhere else.
they kep the mass graves of tens of thousands of people a secret! how easy would it then be for them to hide a few nuclear warheads!

also when somthing against american soldiers or civilians happens, the media tends to ignore it and over use stories of how bad americans are and how things such as job losses are happening.
let me tell you. the media is liberal biased. they ill do anything and everything to make sure the reelection of bush does not happen.
if a bomb went off in some peace organization building, and the americans accidently killed one iraqi civilian while shooting terrorists which do you think the media would pay attention to?

the american soldiers do not deserve to die!
what they did was wrong but sleep dprevation should not be punishable by death not like the nick berg incident. not to mention the fact that the iraqis werent killed or even severely hurt. jail time and one enormous fine is what they need.

if the spanish people are scared as easily as they were after a terrorist attack, then they deserve to have a liberal governement. they essentially bowed to the terrorist's wishes by bowing out of the war. you do realize that with this liberal governement in spain, nothing wil be done to prevent another terrorist occurence in their country.
not only that, the only reason spain did change from conservative-like to liberal-like is because of some two milion people who knew nothing about the problems going on decided to vote for some guy who will do nothing to hwelp solve their problems.
as for britain and italy if that was the case and thier countries were anything like ours those leaders would have been impeached and kicked out of office by liberals who want to satisfy their uncontrolable lust for power.

american soldiers search the iraqis cars as a precauition to save iraqi civilian lives.
if they idnt do that and some mosque was blown up or somthing liberals would again rip on the whole republican party.
there is no way to please these liberals except let them take ofice and do everything there way.
they do not kill civilians.
"Civilians" who fire on the american soldiers are not civilians but are feyadeen or resistance fighters and they need to be taken out.
some iraqis muight be disgruntled but you will always have a few of those and those iraqis who do protest do not know what goes on outside of their home.
the americans have picked a candidate for the new head of the interim governing council, but that is not final, they let the council have a significant say on who was to be their head.
besides the fat that after june 30, iraqis can do wahtever they please and in January 2005, elections will be held for the first president of the iraq.

do not be fooled.
wut the american soldiers did to those iraqis is bad.
but the media which is run by the liberals i might add, has worn this story out. all they have been doing is putting bush, the war and america itself in a horrible light.
although there are somthing things that need dealing with, the war on iraq has been a great success.
besides the fact several days later, terrorists slit the throat of the one american telecommunications worker. who has done nothing but help the iraqis in need.
the media has done nothing but side with the terrorists. 'they just did it because we horribly beat those prisoners'
they would have killed that man anyways.
they let those prisoners practice islam in an american prison and if they were christians practicing christianity the liberals would be screaming and blaming the whol;e thing on bush.
one incident and the liberals almost cause a riot. it just goes to show you how wiling they are to put anything bush has done or even bush himslef in a bad light to get their candidate elected.

sleep depravation is not torture, heck the police even use this method... if you think it is torture you must be kind of a wuss or something...

speaking of torture, all the idiots comparing the actions of a small few of our troops to the actual torture inflicted by the terrorists and saddam need some serious mental help.. as i asked in another thread which went unanswered by the "torture is torture" people(no surprise), what would you rather have happen to you.. and
a s s kicking and some naked pictures taken of you or having to set your own children on fire and watch them burn to death?

also i find it funny that the media which shows the "abuse pictures" 24/7 would not show the tape released of the actual torture committed by saddam and his men.. it was released in washington and viewed by many people in the government, the media etc.. it showed how saddam punished people.. things like putting their limbs on concrete blocks and cutting them off, not all at once mind you, but cutting fingers off then the hand then the forearm the the rest of the arm.. people having their tongues cut out for speaking out against saddam.. being beaten with a wooden cane in the back/kidneys for up to 24 hours straight while tied to a pole, beheadings, everything from a quick one with a sword to having their heads actually sawed off slowly with a saw.. people being put feet first into plastic shredders, people having gasoline poured over them while tied up and set on fire(it even showed saddam and his guards laughing while this was going on)...


his sons were not angels either they would routinely torture and kill people.. one thing they would do quite often is, if they saw a girl that they liked/wanted they would kidnap torture and kill her boyfriend then rape her over and over... nice first date huh.. they would often feed people to their big cats for amusement...

now simple question, how in the h e l l can you even begin to compere the things mentioned here to the abuse caused by our soldiers? if you can compare the two, you are a twisted person and a flat out liar.. you might lie and say they are the same until it was your a s s put in that position, i'm sure at that moment you would embrace the differences...

"Not free to travel from city to city without being stopped and searched."

because of the terrorists

"Not free to speak out against the Americans."

um that is a lot of BS.. they have had several protests in iraq.. if that is not speaking out i don't know what is.. if they had done that under saddam they would have all been executed or had their tongues cut out.

"Not free to decide who their leaders will be democratically because the will of the people might be represented, the will of a people angry at occupying forces"

untrue again, they will be having actual elections next year.. the governing council is only temporary.

"Forces who arrest men on suspicion only"

because of the terrorists and when saddam was in power suspicious people were jailed tortured and killed along with their wives and children..

"Forces who kill civilians every day."

a weak, tired, old, and childish cop out... name a country that has been to war that has not killed civilians either by accident or on purpose.. the "civilians are dying" argument is BS.. is it sad civilians are dying? YES but compare the civilians killed in this war to the hundreds of thousands killed yearly by saddam.. not much of a comparison.. also you seem to forget the terrorists are killing both iraqi and foriegn civilians...

The soldiers that did that should be taken out of Iraq immediately and at least get 5 years in jail. We're supposed to be trying to help, not torture them. Then again, they were POWs and had been working for Saddam so they probably have done their fair share of torturing and got what was coming to them, but it still doesn't make it right for us to do that.

Oustedpunx, those Iraqis were beaten severley by many of the soldiers, and thaey did torture them. Not "torture", torture. Sleep deprivation is torture nomatter what you say. Know who else used sleep deprivation? Stalin. Yup. And its not torture... Four American soldiers? Try mercenaries. And the Iraqis are not free. Not free to travel from city to city without being stopped and searched. Not free to speak out against the Americans. Not free even to come see their own soccer team at a celebration for their entrance into the world leauge (or somesort of leauge like that), because L. Paul Bremmer was there. Not free to decide who their leaders will be democratically because the will of the people might be represented, the will of a people angry at occupying forces. Forces who arrest men on suspicion only. Forces who kill civilians every day. If you were an Iraqi, you'd be preety pissed too.

I am sick of hearing about the "tortured" Iraqi prisoners, yes they took some bad photos but they didn't actually beat them or KILL them. Nick Berg on the other hand had his head sawn off with a knife, but for some reason naked iraqis are more important. 4 American soldiers were captured, beaten, murdered and their bodies were burned and then hung off a bridge, but naked iraqis are more important. Hundreds of soldiers have died fighting for a people who are so ignorant that they don't recognize freedom when it is thrust into their face, but naked iraqis are more important.

OustedPunx
PFC B 2-20 FA
4th Infantry Division

(Veritas Et Aequitas)

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And many of these people are from OUTSIDE Iraq. And thousands of people do not constitute a majority in a country with a population in the tens of millions.

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Whenever I hear this I always find it quite funny that people still believe that fact. You think that people are coming into Iraq simply to go against the Iraqi invasion? Dr.S, look at the average Iraqi. They all want America out now. They hate Saddam yet hate America just as much. The fact that Iraqis are against Saddam does not make them "Pro-Invasion." Many will say that they hear that Iraqis are happy that Americans threw out Saddam, yet they probably would like the see the US leave now. The fact that the insurgency consists of former Baathist members and outsiders is simply not true. Heck, if Mike Savage, Sean Hannity, and Ann Coulter say it isnt true, then even the most hard-core Conservatives are acknolodging the truth.

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One, the uranium issue was ONE OF DOZENS of peices in intellgence. Don't you remember anything about the case for WMDs? It was never the main focus.

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Dozens of pieces of evidence? Okay, I could explain to you in detail the fact about those "dozens" of pieces of evidence, yet I am going to get straight to the point. Finally, after Saddam finally let weapons inspectors in, Hans Blix and his team packed their bags and headed over to Iraq. When Blix got their, he asked the US for information about possible locations for weapons of Mass destruction. However, even with its dozens of pieces of "evidence", clues from various (false) sources, and technology and resources that range from spies to satellites with the capabillity to read the headline of a newspaper from space, the US was never able to give Blix the information he requested to do his inspections. So, without any help or info from the US (which was part of the agreement), Blix conducted the most thorough inspection he could conduct of Iraq, yielding no results. Not long after the Blix came back with a report claiming "No weapons found," Bush went to war with Iraq claiming it was for "Iraqi freedom and WMD." The whole point of the Iraq war became obscurred.

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Saddam being gone is an extremely beneficial change for the region.

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First off, the whole point to the war in Iraq has become a soup of ideas that is extremely unclear and undefined, as I have said before. First weapons, terrorism, and now freedom. You claim Saddam being gone is a very beneficial change for the region. For one reason: The dictator is gone. But that doesnt mean everything is good, now does it? Iraq is extremely violent filled with constant insurgency, explosionshig radiotion levels from American RNEB's, and hate. This is leading many Iraqis to believe that Iraq was better off under Saddam. Not a great oil for the War Machine in Iraq, neh?
But the war was benifical for one group of people, and they go by the name of Oil Companies.

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But if you still want to focus on the WMDs... Bush could not have knowingly lied about Saddams WMD stockpiles. The entire developed world acknowladged that they were in all likelyhood there. I believe there are still signifigant amounts of WMDs to be found. I am not, however, hinging the success or justness of this war on that fact.

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Yes he could have! It is very easy to lie about something if you have alot in favor of you, especially the Media and the fact that the average American was afraid of antoher attack on its soil and would go to all extents to prevent it (only now after the rush is gone are people realizing it wasnt that great of an idea.) As for the entire developed world acknolodging that there were weapons in Iraq, that is so dumb its funny. The "Coalition of the willing" consits of mainly small, third-world nations, many of which cant solve their own problems, let alone fight a war in Iraq. The only countries capable of supporting Iraq Were Britan (I'll let this little flash animation explain the reason for Britans support of the United States, but lets also not forget that only 20% of Brits support millitary action in Iraq,) Italy (a country that is led by hard-core conservative business man who staunchly supports Bush yet where only 18.8% of the population supported the invasion of Iraq,) and Spain (7% support for war and a leader who was recenlty kicked out.) Well, well, the developed world adnd thrid sure does believe there were weapons! Only three power-wielding countries support us, and the general population there does not agree with their goverement. The rest of the countries in the world do not support our actions and speak the truth: there were no WMD in Iraq. End of story. No other country in the world had percentages as close to ours of people who supported the war in Iraq.

I have to say a few things. For one, I think those American soldiers involved in the torture deserve to die. America has a lot to fix because rigt now, the rest of the world feels like killing us off. Also, do NOT blame this on Bush. He may be commander in chief but do you actually think he ordered those soldiers to do something like that. Oh and you might say "Well he's the one that put us in Iraq in the first place." But think, he only wanted to get Saddam and help Iraq with their government. Not to hurt people in disgusting, immoral ways or hurt people period.

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Uh yeah Dr. Strangelove it was an example.

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Correction, it was a HORRIBLE example that was irrelevent.

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And yeah maybe you should watch the news sometimes before you try and tell someone what is happening in this world. There are thousands of Saddam supporters (yeah in his own country) that want us to give him back.

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And many of these people are from OUTSIDE Iraq. And thousands of people do not constitute a majority in a country with a population in the tens of millions.

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Dr. S, No, No, No! The War's main point was WMD and it was brought about by the (FAKE) sale of Yellowcake from Niger to Iraq

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One, the uranium issue was ONE OF DOZENS of peices in intellgence. Don't you remember anything about the case for WMDs? It was never the main focus.
And the main jusification of war was WMDs. It's point was very different. Saddam being gone is an extremely beneficial change for the region.

But if you still want to focus on the WMDs... Bush could not have knowingly lied about Saddams WMD stockpiles. The entire developed world acknowladged that they were in all likelyhood there. I believe there are still signifigant amounts of WMDs to be found. I am not, however, hinging the success or justness of this war on that fact.

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And as for the Media, whatever you say, but last time I checked, the majority of the media had GOP leanings, dont believe me? Check out this:

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So you base the entire leanings of the media off of one chart, based off one election? Is it also possible that Gore had fewer positive reports because he had fewer positive aspects? The point is, that chart is flawed if your using it to show bias in the media.

Talk radio, granted, has very strong leanings to the right. However, I want to see real information that the majority of TV stations have signifigant right-wing leanings.

Uh yeah Dr. Strangelove it was an example. I Saddam doesn't have to worry about gay marriages and abortion, but we do and I was talking about if Saddam didn't like what Bush is trying to do then we would have something to say about him coming over here to take our president. And yeah maybe you should watch the news sometimes before you try and tell someone what is happening in this world. There are thousands of Saddam supporters (yeah in his own country) that want us to give him back.

Dr. S, No, No, No! The War's main point was WMD and it was brought about by the (FAKE) sale of Yellowcake from Niger to Iraq it came from British Intelligence who simply did some weird Google and LexusNexis searches, then found a story publized by an Italian Journalist who actually never Interviewed the Nigerian Business man. It was obvious the sale was fake, and then when the inspectors were finally given acess, they asked the US for possible locations of weapons (the US has spies, Sattelites capable of reading newspaper headlines, and CIA Intelligence reports) yet was never able to give Hans Blix any info on Weapons. So Hans Blix came back saying that he had found no evidence of weapons (by the way, it is impossible to destory evidence of weapons right before an inspection, it just doesnt work.)

And as for the Media, whatever you say, but last time I checked, the majority of the media had GOP leanings, dont believe me? Check out this:

Tone of Coverage for Gore & Bush
Gore Bush
Positive 13% 24%
Neutral 31% 27%
Negative 56% 49%
Total 100% 100%

Check out the following site to see the chart I just showed you: right here

Oh and sorry about calling you and ignoramus, I just was mad.

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The people chose Saddam as their leader just like some Americans chose BUSH. It is his right to do what he pleases with the power they gave him.

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Who. The. ****. Have. You. Been. Listening. To?

Those "elections" were a complete fraud. The ballot was "Do you want Saddam Hussien to return to office." There was no other candidate. And the results were 100% in the positive. That in itself is a sure sign of fraud. You've got to be kidding me telling me you thought that was real.

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Bush is trying to ban gay marriages and abortion right? Well what if Saddam thinks that is wrong and wants to come over here and take away BUSH.

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See, abortion and gay marrige do not threaten the national intrests or security of his country.

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Our main point was chemical weapons, you ignoramus.

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No, our main point was taking down a destabilizing power and gaining a power base in the middle east. The WMD thing was a secondary issue. Publicly, it was the focus because Saddams multiple violations of previous UN resolutions gave us justification to remove him.
Ever hear of the neoconseravative plan for the Middle East?

Don't call me an ignoramus just yet. You've only known my online persona for a few days...

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Hell, this whole war was brought up by a (fake) sale of Yellowcake to Iraq via Niger.

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That's BS and you know it. The uranium was a minor issue in the whole thing. And Bush himself said in the speech: "Based on BRITISH INTELLIGENCE". He did not lie directly about this issue, and we would have still went in without that piece of info.

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The majority of channels and radio shows support the GOP, especially FOX News and Clear Channel Radio Stations

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TV stations with right leanings: Fox News.

TV stations with left leanings: NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, CSPAN, PBS....

Fox News really isn't that bad in their actual NEWS reporting. Separate the commentary programs from the actual news reporting and maybe you'll see my point.

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He still have the right to run his country the way he wants, because his own people put him in power. If they hate him so much why do they want him back?

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What majority of people are calling for Saddam's return? It seems to be your getting your info from some BS website.

[This message was edited by YNLissa on May 22, 2004 at 06:47 AM.]

somebody wrote something way down there that said, "it makes us lose our superiority..."....WE DON'T HAVE SUPERIORITY OVER ANYONE. no country or person is "better" or "superior" to another...and this wrong belief is what gets america in wars that are not justified. we dont see people in other countries(like iraq) as our equals, so it suddenly becomes ok for our government to decide to go in there and do whatever they want with the country. (and i'm not talking about the abuse of the prisoners..just the war. the government didnt have much to do w/ the whole abuse situation).

Mr.Blue07-

All the pics aired on 60 Mins II are real. All have been varified. And there is no such thing is "Liberal Media" The majority of channels and radio shows support the GOP, especially FOX News and Clear Channel Radio Stations

Dr.StrangeLove-

Our main point was chemical weapons, you ignoramus. Didnt you ever hear the countless speeches (and that one state of the union.) Hell, this whole war was brought up by a (fake) sale of Yellowcake to Iraq via Niger.