I used to be a huge supporter of the war in Iraq, but i am starting to have a new prospective. So many Americans have died and continue to die everyday in Iraq, mostly at the hands of terrorists. Bush says we will "stand down when Iraq stands up" but i dont think the terrorists will ever quit, wether we pull out of Iraq tomorrow or in ten years. so my question is, what do you think it is going to take for the Americans to get rid of the terrorism in Iraq and what is it going to take for Iraq to keep the peace for years to come?

It doesn't matter the actual percentage of oil we get from Saudi Arabi or wherever. The important thing is that the OPEC is controlled by Saudi Arabi.

Wow I dont know what I was thinking, it would be worse than that, because Exxon (middle east is primary source) would have to jack up prices by a ton, which means other companies are going to start taking the hit on more cosumers, which will out run refinery capability, so prices are going to rise... a lot.

Doc, even though we only get 14% and that might seem low... gas prices this morning were at 2.19 per gallon here in San Antonio, say we didn't get that 14% all of a sudden and your looking at a 30 cent hike right off the bat. Then what would we do if we had another incident in the gulf?

My bad. But I'm still fairly sure we don't get much oil from Iraq, even now that Saddam is out of power.

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We get almost all our oil from Saudi Arabia, just in case you didn't realize that.

Er, I'm fairly sure we only get about 14% or our oil from SA. Canada actually supplies us with a greater percentage of imports, at least according to the most recent figures I've seen.

Yet we still managed to win the First Gulf War when popular opinion was against it. Imagine that.

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And that's where you're wrong. We lost in Vietnam because we were woefully unprepared for that kind of fighting. 'Nam was the first war that didn't have a defined enemy, didn't have a defined front.

Partaly true we also lost bevause the folks at home pulled the support rug out from under our boy's feet

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If we back out and the insurgents retake Iraq, they won't sell us oil. So how is that going to affect prices? think about it, its simple economics.

We get almost all our oil from Saudi Arabia, just in case you didn't realize that.

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okay, perhaps the crap on CNN is NEVER true.

More true than what's on Fox.

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It's called my duty to my country.

You can serve your country without firing a weapon.

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It was people like you, people who hate the troops, hate corporations, and hate America.

And that's where you're wrong. We lost in Vietnam because we were woefully unprepared for that kind of fighting. 'Nam was the first war that didn't have a defined enemy, didn't have a defined front. The Viet Cong could be the villager who just offered you some soup, or the little old lady who sewed up your shirt yesterday, or the seemingly dedicated South Vietnamese soldier. The same goes for Iraq. We don't know who the enemy is. And so we can't fight them.

If we don't adapt to this unorthodox fighting style, we're going to lose Iraq just like we lost Vietnam.

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Originally posted by ChrissyLynn:
So many Americans have died and continue to die everyday in Iraq, mostly at the hands of terrorists.

Look at this sweetheart: American soldiers go to Iraq and fight and ide, sure, it's a fact: a very sad one, but more Iraqis die daily there than we will ever be told, because the fact is that they live in the war zone, they come fact to face with guns and bombs daily. Each day for some is a close brush with death. They live in constant terror. Now whose fault is it? Who is the terrorist here? The innocent iraqi people who die get caught in the cross fire? The many innocent young american youth who get brainwashed and run off to fight, believing that they are porteting their country? the government who have yet to produce evidence of accusations they have served up to their people as gospel? the media who only tell us the story of the americans and turn a completely blind eye to the story of the iraqi? who do you blame here?

Haven't you seen the fire that Judith Miller is caught up in at the moment?

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Actually I was refering to Sam. Anyway, your British / Turkish, you have a right to hate America. by the way, I'm a little child who thinks war is cool? You have no idea on my feelings on this. It's called my duty to my country. Do you have that?

nope, all british, duty to your country doesnt necerssairly mean following them headfirst into bloody conflicts.

really that story had no place in this thread. that belongs under randomosity.

Squirel, please don't spam the boards

so much hate ow!!! I mean cmon 'm noob berserker

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Originally posted by ampmaster:
Evilsquirrel you give newbies a bad name die now please or at least kill that post.

Actually I was refering to Sam. Anyway, your British / Turkish, you have a right to hate America. by the way, I'm a little child who thinks war is cool? You have no idea on my feelings on this. It's called my duty to my country. Do you have that?

Evilsquirrel you give newbies a bad name die now please or at least kill that post.

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hey thanks. I never knew we kick ass so much. Anyway, we went through WW2 and the Korean War with just as much losses. So why couldn't we do Vietnam? It was people like you, people who hate the troops, hate corporations, and hate America.

people like me? im not american to start with....and yes i hate american foreign policy, and the majority of american society and culture. you have no idea what your talking about and think going to war is cool, your a little child with no perception of reality.

oh uh my last reply wasn't finsihed this is one thing why were fighting and a little story


The other day, my nine-year-old son wanted to know why we were at
war...My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband
and
I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve
and defend our Country again today. I knew that my husband would give
him a good explanation. My husband thought for a few minutes and then
told my son to go stand in our front living room window.

He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the
United
States of America and you are President Bush."


Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every
house
and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.


"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you
see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair
and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the
face, He throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death.
Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming
and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids
and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son....what
do
you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?"

"I'd call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your
call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help.
What do you do then son?"

"Dad.......... but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to
whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or
your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my
husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want
you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're
pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his
children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door
neighbor to help me stop him," our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get
involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him,"
my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help! I can't stop him by myself!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask
for
help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and
puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her
door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire
and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the
window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"Daddy..."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?" Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers,
"I'd close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him. "Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help people who needs
them...and they won't help.... You always say that neighbors ares
supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't
help
me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself Daddy.....I can't
look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things
and...and.....do nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds....
so I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it
is not happening."

I start to cry. My husband looks at our nine-year-old son standing in
the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husband's
questions and he says...

"Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door... "WHAT
DO YOU DO?"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up
his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without
hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT
MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT
HIM!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his
chest and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's
too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have
stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old
lady
across the way. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it
alone, before its too late," my husband whispers. THAT scenario I just
gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let
evil happen son, THAT is the greatest atrocities in the world won't
affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU
HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR
TROOPS! SUPPORT THEM! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR
CHILDREN
WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS..."

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Originally posted by clpo13:
I have three words for you phantom: "Suck it up!"

Go away and let me exercise my right to bitch in peace.

Humans are food for rabid squirrels!!!! and thats mean to phantomm,

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Originally posted by clpo13:
I have three words for you phantom: "Suck it up!"

Go away and let me exercise my right to bitch in peace.

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You just proved what a selfish, inhumanm, greedy piece of **** you really are. You just admitted the reason your backing this war is for your greedy oil needs

I did not say that. If we back out and the insurgents retake Iraq, they won't sell us oil. So how is that going to affect prices? think about it, its simple economics.

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There are so many environmentally, cheap, and virtually unlimited alternatives that not a single person has to die for oil.

Then why aren't we using them? they may be enviromentally cheap and unlimited, but are they efficient? Will you drive a car that goes five miles before you have to fill up again? I'm all for alternate sources of energy, however, I don't see much of that coming right now.

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I would have thought even somebody with their head stuck so far up their ass as you would be able to see the fact that the only way to stop the bloodshed is to pull the troops out as soon as possible but looks like I was wrong

Your damn right your wrong. If we pull out, won't the new government still kinda hate the US? I mean even more than the Sadamn regime? Please, i implore you, use your damn brain. So, think. We pull out, their government hates us, we eventually go back in for a Gulf War 3, more troops die, more Iraqis die, THE END.

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First of all how can a culture which cant manage to make a democracy in their own country bring democracy to another country.

Can I buy some pot from you? We actually have elections that mean something. Just because you hate America because Kerry lost is no reason to assume that we have no democracy.

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HAHAHAHA!!! That was a slightly extreme understatement dont you think?

okay, perhaps the crap on CNN is NEVER true.

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no you lost because 58,000 american soldiers were killed...and over a million north vietnamese

hey thanks. I never knew we kick ass so much. Anyway, we went through WW2 and the Korean War with just as much losses. So why couldn't we do Vietnam? It was people like you, people who hate the troops, hate corporations, and hate America.

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and more iraqis will die, i value 25,000 dead iraqis over 2000 americans.

More of both now, or More of both later? Take your pick. I personally would take now so that we don't have to go into Iraq again.