AngelBaby, savedbygrace, and prettyinpunk - you all ROCK! I wish I had your extraordinary gift of not losing my temper when people diss my reliogion and beliefs, all the time saying I am the intolerant one. Anyways, y'all are sure doing an awful lot of fighting that has nothing to do with the original topic. Why do y'all always end up dissing the Christians? It's like you get on the boards, gleefully rub your hands together and plot evilly, "how can i twist this into an anti-Christian party? heeheehee *evil cackle*" anyways,
lots of love,
Lynne

I was just trying to make a point, Crys, that homosexuality is wrong and the Bible says so. I have nothing against homosexuals themselves, it's their "way of life" that I don't like. But the BIBLE says that it is wrong.

just wondering-
if homosexuality isn't wrong, than why is it right? to me, it just seems unnatural, i mean, 2 guys or 2 girls, it just seems gross to me. I have made my point about why it's wrong. I want a good arguement as to why it would be right.

exuse me pretty it should say unnatural...if u havent noticed i cant change anything after 5 mins of the post..so it wasnt change. No need to be pissy

Excuse me Crys? The Bible DOES say that homosexuality is wrong. I happen to have the Teen Study Bible. Look in the index under homosexuality, and it gives u the pages of verses on it. the bible CLEARLY says that it is sinful, detestable and unnatural, thank you very much.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 18 (not 19):22

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1(not 2, sorry):24-27

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6(not 5):9-11

I apologize for the incorrect references in my first post...the ones here are correct now.

AngelBaby: Your Bible seems to be different from the one this debate has centered on (King James version, I believe). This, as you may or may not know, occurs because you can translate words from other languages in several different ways, getting several similar, but not identical meanings.

To everyone: There is no proof one way or another that homosexuality is a choice, genetic, a personality thing, etc. It is unfair to assume that you correctly know that it's a choice (and a wrong one at that) or assume any other thing about it.

I'm not saying i hate homosexuals, i do believe that they are equal people as everyone else, although i don't agree with the way they choose their lives.

But... you said that the Bible doesn't say anything against homosexuality, but i would beg to differ.

In genesis 2, was the account of Adam and Eve, and it spoke of how God created woman to be the mate for man, and that this is the way things are supposed to be, homosexuality wasn't introduced until sin entered the world.

Leviticus 18:22- Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable. (in context that is speaking to men)

I could keep going on, but i figure you are smart enough to get the point with just 2 of them. I'm not saying homosexuals are bad people, but homosexuality is a sin.

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And Gemini, you can poke all the fun you want at God, but he cares bout you and he'll reach you one of these days. I've been in your position and I've got friends who were and are in your position.

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I'm an Atheist, kilow. -A meaning "non" and theism meaning "belief." Combine the two and you get Atheism- a non-belief.

That being said, I will not "find" your god because I believe that he/she/it has, nor will ever, exist. You should respect that belief, just as I respect yours regarding Christianity.

All these arguments about what is and isn't in the Bible about homosexuality intrigued me, so I did a little bit of research. Here's what it actually says:

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." Leviticus 19:22

"So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.....That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done." Romans 2:24-28

"Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers - none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God." 1 Corinthians 5:9-11

If you want to know what context it's used in, check it out for yourself.

Gemini, it is amazing how incredibly clueless you are. You don't even get my posts. Maybe I'm not communicating clearly (though I think I am)

Just curious kilow...are you the only person on this earth with a clue? I mean...everyone else especially whites must be completely clueless..just like gemini right?

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You don't even get my posts. Maybe I'm not communicating clearly (though I think I am)

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Well if the purpose of your posts is to prove that you are a complete ******* then yes, you are communicating clearly.

[This message was edited by YNLissa on March 19, 2003 at 06:34 AM.]

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fetch, maybe you can help me out: Where does the Bible say homosexuality is unnatural?

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Whoops, sorry Thanks for correctign me. You're right. The bible never says that. The only thing it says is that a man isn't supposed to have sex with another man. And I want to know why.

I shouldn't cuss and do the other things I do. I'll be judged for that by God. How am I being a hypocrite? Again, I myself am not judging homosexuals. I'm just stating what the Word of God says. And about this threatening bs....who exactly have I threatened? Gemini, it is amazing how incredibly clueless you are. You don't even get my posts. Maybe I'm not communicating clearly (though I think I am) but come on, you misinterpet everything I write. Why don't you take time to read my posts, instead of glimpsing at them and making assumptions? Again, I'm not judging anyone. I don't hate anyone. I just believe what the Bible says and what God says. I don't always do what the Bible says and what God says, but I do believe it. I'm not perfect, no one is. I'm not judging anyone. And I definitely haven't threatened anyone (unless you can explain). I just can't believe how my posts are constantly misinterpreted. I'll try to do better to communicate, but I think the main problem is that you all are too argumentative, and instead of thinking bout what you say you get all emotional. While there is emotion in my posts, I read what you all say. I usually don't misinterpret what you're saying. I'll try to do better, but damn people. And Gemini, you can poke all the fun you want at God, but he cares bout you and he'll reach you one of these days. I've been in your position and I've got friends who were and are in your position. Just remember, God isn't a religion. Don't let religion turn you off to God.

Let's be realistic here. I agree with the point that the bible could have been written by just about anyone, and may not be an accurate representation of God's words at all. But Kilow is a Christian. We can't blame him for taking his beliefs from the bible, it's the holy book of his religion for cryin' out loud! We can tell him to QUESTION what it says, but we can't tell him to disregard it completely.

I think homosexuality is acceptable because:
1) I don't think we have the right to dictate to people how they have to feel. That's a fundamental right to being human, we are allowed to have feelings. And that includes feelings of homosexual love.
2) It doesn't hurt anyone, any more than heterosexual love can.
3) Yes it may be a little unnatural. I agree with that. Naturally, homosexuals can't conceive children. However, it being unnatural does not, in my eyes, make it wrong, because as I already said it doesn't hurt anybody. Hundreds of things we do every day are 'unnatural' It's like defining 'normal' as 'right'.
4) homosexuals should be allowed to marry, because as far as I can see the only qualification for that should be wanting to commit to a relationship and show your love for another person.
5) I already posted about adoption - I think homosexuals can care for children just as well as anyone else and for the rest of my views see the previous post. I admit there are issues the kids might have to deal with but I think that is society's fault. Put it this way, I know if I was gay I would still want the chance to raise a child because to a lot of people it's one of the most important things in life. Call me biased (I know I am a little) but I don't want to deny them that.

Kilow: ok, cuss if you like, I don't really care that much but be prepared to have to keep dealing with people having a problem with it.

Everybody: Can we get a little less hysterical here? You're all giving me a headache! Maybe I'm too idealistic but I'd like to think people can have different opinions without screaming at each other…

Phew!

Bex

The quote given to me by Kilow from Leviticus could be, at most, interpreted as homosexuality being detestable, hated. Not unnatural, not wrong, just hated.

And Kilow, if you'd just gimme the quote where it says homosexuality is unnatural, I'll shut up about it. And I'm sorry if you feel I've missed something in your post, perhaps you could explain it to me?

It's not a crutch, kilow? Please, explain why.

You curse and use profane language, and even threaten certain individuals who believe differently from you. Yet, when it's convenient for you you tell people that the Bible is completely true/the world of god, and that homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so. But the Bible doesn't say that it's right to threaten thy neighbor and degrade their doctrines.

So, in turn, you manipulate this text to fit your preferences with it. Therefore you're using the Bible as a crutch for your ignorance and lack of capacity to accept differences, such as homosexuality.

People need to save some damn trees and animal habitats by decreasing the number of Bibles produced. I wonder how much paper is used to make one Bible.. hmmm.. someone, ask Jesus! He knows everything

outspoken....you are being ignored I'm sick of arguing with you when you don't even read my posts. Don't think you've won the argument or something.
gemini...the Bible isn't a crutch. Peace.

The Bible is a crutch for ignorance. Simply an excuse for blind beliefs.

What I do know, Kilow, is that marriage is supposed to be a way for two people who love each other to commit themselves to each other in front of their family, friends, and God. Two people of the same sex can feel the same way as two people of the opposite sex so they deserve to be allowed to get married. As for children, there are millions of children in the world being raised by child abusers, molesters, or no one at all. These children deserve someone that will love them and provide a good home for them. If a gay couple can do that, then the child will be better for it. And as for the "support" you find in the Bible for your opinions, those are not God's words. Whatever God's words may or may not have been you will not know. The words obviously were in a different language that has been translated and retranslated many times. Different versions of the Bible say different things depending on who translated them. There is no way for you to know that your version is an actual representation of God's words. Until you meet with God and can ask him yourself, don't pretend to know what his feelings and beliefs are. That is blaspemous.

fetch, maybe you can help me out: Where does the Bible say homosexuality is unnatural?