I already told you, I believe it is unnatural because the Bible says so. I know you don't believe in the Bible, so we've parted ways there. I already told you this. Why don't you read my stuff? You're making yourself sound stupid.

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Because she does not want people to know she has two moms

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Ya know what? It is not her parents' fault that she is uncomfortable with her bringing friends around. That is a product, a view of society, not given to her by her mothers.

And Kilow, I'm still waiting on the unnatural thing. And you claim I don't back my **** up.

Hey digit, I don't need to grow up. Homosexuals are people, but what they do is wrong. That's what I think. Why exactly do I need to grow up? Explain yo self, fool. When did I say they weren't people? I'm sick of all of you that make broad statements and don't back **** up. You all act like my cussing invalidates my points, yet you all are the ones who don't backup your ****. My arguments are ten times more clear than yours. Peace, *****ez.

I can't believe some of the stuff I've read in this thread.

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OK, I'll stop calling them *****. If that offends you I will stop. But no, I am not tolerant of gays. I don't think they should be discriminated against, but I believe being gay is wrong. There is a difference between being black and being homosexual. Being gay is a lifestyle choice. Being black is a choice of nature. And the fact that I cuss doesn't make my point invalid. Grow up.

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You, need to grow up.

Seriously.

Gays/bisexuals/trans/etc, they're people. Just like you and me.

If you can't understand that, well... you've got a problem. Heh.

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I think we should let them do what they want to as long as they do not have children. The children will not grow up the write way. ONe of my friends was adopted by gay people and now she thinks that she can not bring friends home and it really hurts her.

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I've heard of enough children adopted by homosexuals who turned out just fine and are happy with their life. Maybe your friends if afraid to bring people home because she's afraid they're homophobes and they'll hate her? These days that are enough straight parents who abuse their children and enough children without homes, that we can't be picky about a persons sexuality if they want to adopt and are able to take care of a child.

Homosexuality is not a choice people make. It does not make sense that anyone would choose to be discriminated against on a daily basis. Some people are born gay, others are born straight. It's just like people having different color hair and eyes. To those of you that say being gay is unnatural, you have not done your homework. There are many documented cases of animals participating in homosexuals acts. These animals certainly aren't under any sociological pressures that would make them be gay like some of you insist is what happens to be people. obviously it is just a biological difference. Besides isn't this just about who you love. Love, in any form, is never wrong or unnatural. It is beautiful and should be respected.

I love these debates. I mean where else can the worlds of religion and moral value collide as well as personal choices all to end up with a he said she said. I know that being gay fruity homosexual what ever lable you slap on it is a choice. Here is why, Straight people choose the opposite sex while gays choose the same sex. You are not born from the womb and then bam your gay. There are tons of books out there to support this reasoning as well. Now if being gay was in fact not a choice then why is it that gay people are always asking for support of there choice? Once again choice is being used but yet they did not choose to be gay? Pondering that one myself.

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I think we should let them do what they want to as long as they do not have children. The children will not grow up the write way.

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IF you look in the world at all the children and teens who have been adopted by Homosexuals, a majority of them dont grow up any different than children and teens with heterosexual parents. actually they grow up more open minded and open to different minorities/diversities. Recently an Iowa guy proposed a bill to outlaw gay adoptions and outlaw it for them to be able to be foster parent/s...wonderful to say...he took it out because of many hate calls/letters ect ect. Homosexuals have the same freedoms heterosexuals do..why does any one have the right to take that away???????????

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because she doesnt want people to know she has two moms

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so you're saying shes ashamed of her parents? who have raised to be who she is? ....

Because she does not want people to know she has two moms

To not jump to conclusions, why does she feel she cannot bring friends home?

I think we should let them do what they want to as long as they do not have children. The children will not grow up the write way. ONe of my friends was adopted by gay people and now she thinks that she can not bring friends home and it really hurts her.

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I believe homosexuality can be overcome cause God can help these people.

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How about you try for a week or a month to be attracted to the same sex? i mean, if it's so easy, you'll be able to switch back.

I apologize about the Bible thing, I had forgotten. I was wrong. But still, for anyone who doesn't believe in God, your Bible references have little effect. I never asked where in the Bible it said that homosexuality was wrong and unnatural, I just asked where God said it was.

And you said you weren't trying to prove anything with the Bible:

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As far as it being wrong and not natural outspokenme...."Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable". Leviticus 18:22. There's your proof.

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Last three words happen to be "There's your proof". Maybe we both should start getting our **** straight?

Now, my point number two was not directly faced towards you. I never mentioned you specifically in the point. I apologize if you were meant to feel that way, but you have clarified your view on the matter, which is helpful. Thanks!

Now, you said God says homosexuality is unnatural. Again, I'll ask where (and this time, I'll remember that you'll probably use the Bible, so I won't rag on you for it!). Because in the Leviticus quote, it perhaps says it's wrong, not unnatural.

You asked why so many gays are coming out of the closet all of the sudden, why the sudden spike. First off, if you could give me a statistic, I'd be better off explaining something like that to you, but in reality, your guess is probably just as good as mine, in that it's just a guess. Frankly, I don't know. I think it's got a lot to do with the fact that homosexuality is a lot more tolerated than it was 50, 100, etc years ago. I also question whether all the "homosexuals" truly are. I know several whom I doubt it. (To argue that point, I think it might just be more of a psychological want for attention, but I don't feel it's the case for every homosexual)

I agree, it is completely natural (whether society likes to admit it or not) to at some point have homosexual tendencies, or urges if you will. It's how most find out about their own sexuality. Many people have homosexual urges at some point in their life (specifically adolescence), yet are heterosexual people. But that goes vice versa too, some homosexuals have heterosexual urges, yet, they remain homosexual.

As for the swearing thing, it's just an image thing, I suppose. And anyway, I've been dug into many times for some of my more ragey posts. I swear a lot, myself, but I try to keep it off the posts.

Ok, Kilow, thanks for making it clearer why you feel this way, I get what you mean now (even if I don't agree). You feel like it's against your religion to condone homosexuality, so you don't. I don't have to worry about that side of it because I'm not religious.

However I maintain that you do not know homosexuality is a choice. What if someone's gay and keeps praying and praying for it to be taken away but it never is. Then all that their turning to God brings them is shame. It COULD be a choice, but you do not know that. I don't say it is or it isn't because I can't know. And neither can you.

The cussing thing… I admit it doesn't do you many favours. If you call gay people names, saying you tolerate them is not likely to be taken seriously. If you want to debate effectively you have to think about the impression the language you use is making. It might not be fair but it's something to consider when you write… you can go ahead and curse anyway but you have to be aware people judge you for how you express yourself here.

Bex

Outspokenme...if you would stop being such a conceited, outspoken person, your points would have validity. Why did I put the Biblical quotes in there? CAUSE YOU ASKED ME WHERE IN THE BIBLE IT SAID THAT. Don't be a *******. You asked me a question, I answered it. I wasn't trying to "prove" anything with the Bible. So point number was is invalid. Point number two...I don't think unnatural things are wrong. I'm the last damn person in this world to think that. I love the less known and more unnatural things in life. But when it comes down to homosexuality, it is something God says is unnatural. I know that is where we part ways, so there's no point to us arguing about that. And about homosexuality being a lifestyle choice...why is it now that all the gays are coming out of the closet? Why wasn't it like this years and years ago? Don't tell me it was cause they feared discrimination. That can only explain the skyrocketing numbers to a point. I just believe these people struggle with it. It doesn't mean they can't overcome it, they just struggle with it. I have an anger problem...does that mean I'm an ANGRY PERSON? No, it means, at times, I am angry. Some people may struggle with homosexuality. Does that mean they are homosexual? I say no. They just struggle with it. And on your side note, why exactly does cussing lower the amount of respect a person has for another? Sure, my cussing gets repetitive and childish at times, but I still articulate my arguments. Rappers cuss a lot, but should they not be respected for their talents and heart? Anyway, next time you argue with me read my ****, and quit making your assumptions. Peace.

I'm positive that gay people want the same rights as everyone else. That's is why they have to fight for them. Their rights to marry and etc. have been taken away. You can call them "special right" if you want. It's not thier fault that they don't have them. They only have to fight for these "special right" because they were taken away from them.

Kilow, you cannot prove anything to me simply by using the Bible. 1) I don't believe in God, so pretty anything dealing with God is more or less irrelevant to me. If I choose to humor this God business (which I am not unknown to doing) your little quote (that I have heard umpteen times) does not at all prove that homosexuality is not natural. So I'll continue waiting for the proof on the unnatural-ness of homosexuality.

Next up: I sorta get the feeling (and maybe it's just a poorly made assumption), that there's this idea that WRONG=UNNATURAL and vice versa. Obviously, this cannot be true. A good many things in this world are unnatural, yet the use of them is not deemed at all wrong.

I also wonder if being homosexual truly is a lifestyle "choice". Because there is no more proof that it's a choice than there is that it's not.

On a side note: Many people say cursing too often in a post takes away from the respect of the post and person who wrote it.

OK, I'll stop calling them *****. If that offends you I will stop. But no, I am not tolerant of gays. I don't think they should be discriminated against, but I believe being gay is wrong. There is a difference between being black and being homosexual. Being gay is a lifestyle choice. Being black is a choice of nature. And the fact that I cuss doesn't make my point invalid. Grow up.

you can cuss all you want but to call people that is degrading, and it just proves that you are NOT tolarant like you pretend to be....i'm sure you'd get pissed if i called you a ****** wouldn't you? as for responding to all your other crap, i already stated my point a long time ago and don't find it necesary to repat myself, especially when it wouldn't make a difference because you obviously don't give a crap how anyone else feels.
e.k.

I'm obviously not ignorant on the subject. Just cause I cuss doesn't mean I don't know anything. Just ignore the cussing. I can call those people ***** if I want to. I don't feel like typing out the whole word. Big damn deal. Why don't you respond to all the rest of the stuff I said instead of getting hung up on other bull****.