is homocide. Any other thoughts on this? I would love to hear them. However, killing human life, when the baby has no say in it, is mass murder; it's the holocaust of our time.

Oh... that's mature... you felt insulted by me, so the OBVIOUS thing to do is try to insult me back with nothing better than "a whiny baby". Amusing. Anyway, you were being "agressive" and "millitant" when you were going on about your rant about how we can kill "babies" but not killers and what not. btw I'm totally for the death penalty (as long as it can be proven without a reasonable doubt) so please don't bring that argument to me. Also, I don't see them as babies yet. So just leave it at that. you have your opinion, I have mine, The end.

quote:

Okaaay. I didn't think I was being aggressive or militant at all

You weren't.

Just for the record.

... Okaaay. I didn't think I was being aggressive or militant at all (I'm rereading the post and I don't think I was being a jerk, but who knows). I don't disagree with your post, I just disagree that it's morally acceptable to let people choose to kill or not. I know a lot of people don't see abortion as killing, but I do. And as I said, I don't have a cause regarding abortion, because I'm not sure where I stand on the matter in regards to legistlation and whatnot.

Just for the record, being a whiny baby doesn't help your cause very much either.

If you're going to quote me, make sure you quote the entire thing. Yes I believe it was her God given choice just like everything else in this world. Everything is a CHOICE. Who are YOU to judge someone? Is your name God? If you had quoted the WHOLE thing you would have seen that I wrote "If there truely is a higher power that believes it is wrong then let that person face their judgement day with them. But I"m NOT that higher power. Therefore, I will not judge.". Being so verbally agressive and millitant about a topic doesn't help your cause. It turns people off who might otherwise be open to hearing your opinion. Think about that....

quote:

Originally posted by catzz:
In the end, it’s simply not fair to judge someone based on her God given right to choose.

I don't understand this at all. It was her God given choice to have or abstain from sex, and she chose to do something that could potentially get her pregnant. Is it really her choice whether or not her child gets to live? It was just her body before, but once she's pregnant it's not anymore, its hers and her baby's. And as for not wanting to play God, people make the same argument about the death penalty not being justified and then use it for justifying abortions. So we can kill babies but not killers? I can't see the logic in that, sorry.

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on abortion, but the concept of it being a God given right makes no sense to me. The choice was already made prior to the baby's conception.

umm.....well for me personally i would never have an abortion because i believe that it is killing someone......but i also believe that it should be the woman's choice because sometimes the situation doesnt allow for the mother to be the choice......or for instance...say the girl/woman was raped....if i were in that position and i didnt think i could raise that child...i would put it up for adption...but some women souldnt even be able to handle those short 9 months with the child...or say the girl is a teen...and she cant handle it...then i would also put it up for adoption...but its up to her...athough i do believe that the woman has that choice...i do not believe that she has the right to say she is right because it is her body....i mean...it at one point is just a fetus..but it is a very basic life form that will eventually think and breath...so no it is not just a part of the womans body...it has a life.....but it is the womans choice....it all depends on their views

Being pro-choice does not necessarily mean that someone is pro-abortion. Being pro-choice can encompass a lot of different avenues. Yes, it can include abortion as well. However, it doesn’t mean that someone necessarily condones the topic at a personal level. I myself am pro-choice. That does include believing that a woman should be able to choose to have an abortion. I don’t believe that the government or anyone else should choose that for her. Given that it is her body, who is anyone else to say that she should be “forced” to let something grow inside of her if she wishes not to.

Pro-life advocates will argue that there is no difference between the two. But there indeed is. If I personally were to get pregnant, I wouldn’t feel right getting an abortion. Morally, it would feel very wrong for me. I would feel obligated to let it survive and give it a good life. However, I am not ignorant enough to say that everyone should feel the same way at a personal level as I do. Now, please don’t misread my previous statement. I’m not calling all Pro-life advocates ignorant. However, I am calling the pro-life advocates who verbally attack pro-choice, pro-abortion, and women who get abortions ignorant. And yes, I’m very aware that most pro-life people do not verbally attack anyone, it just happens to be those very few who do.

Telling someone that they are pro-abortion, simply because they are pro-choice, is equalvilent to telling someone that, if you are pro-freedom of speech, then you are pro- telling the president he doesn't know his ass from his elbow. The analogy being that, just because someone supports your right to freedom of speech does not necessarily mean that they agree with or support your statement about the president not knowing his ass from his elbow.

In the end, it’s simply not fair to judge someone based on her God given right to choose. I’m not God; I have no right to tell her it’s wrong. If there truly is a higher power that believes that it’s wrong, then let that person face their judgment day with them. But I’m not that higher power, therefore, I will not judge. I as a human being, I support her rights, not her actions. Hence, I will support her right to choose 120%.

Ikki's posting on an abortion thread and slightly off topic. Everyone be shocked.

I wanted to link this to Fina's comment, but that was in another thread. Fina said: "Actually, the most pro-choice demographic in America is single men. I just felt like being nit-picky."

Today, driving by the PP in my area, I saw a protester-- a young white male-- which got me thinking that the only people I've ever seen protesting abortion are white males. (Even the prayer circle was led by an old white male, and had white male youth in it. But that's all besides the point.)

This got me thinking that it was all a waste of time. They spend time, money, energy going and protesting something that inevitably will happen, whether it be legal or not. That kind of pisses me off. I feel, still, that if people took all their energy, money, etc that they put towards protesting, and used it to try and figure out ways in which to put an end to the need for abortions, then the world would be better off.

I'm in a Myspace group (traitor, I know) that is all for discussing ways to end abortion without making it illegal, along with ways to help improve childcare, and the ability for single parents-- and anyone who needs it-- to be able to raise children without having to worry about things like health care, childcare, etc. However, though that was how the group started, it has since changed. It has become more arguing over pro-choice v pro-life, and though most of the people on myspace in the groups are in their 20s-30s, all of the arguments are eerily similar to those that take place between 14-15 year olds on YN. I hate to say it, but all of the arguments are unintelligent, banal, and overused.

That all being said, it all seems like a silly waste of time. I know it's hard for people to put their emotions aside on this issue since everyone seems to hold a passionate view, but it seems as if that may be one of the few things that can be done. The best way to stop abortion is to catch it at it's source, to decrease unwanted pregnancies, to increase "rewards" for having children (I don't know how exactly to explain it, but things like childcare at work, better maternity leave, etc).

Therefore, I'm sick of the arguing. If anyone wants to talk with me about finding ways to decrease something both sides seem to not agree with, NM me.

Hi,
I respect everyone's opppinions. Personally I am pro-choice. Which, in my opinion is not the same as pro-abortion. I do believe it's a woman's body and she has the right to choose. However that doesn't necessarily mean that I believe in abortion at a personal level. Ultimately, I support her rights, not necessarily her actioins. I look at it as the same as being "pro-freedom of speech". I support everyone's right to freedom of speech, however I don't necessarily support everyons' views and actions due to their rights. For example, you may say that you think Bush is the greatest man in the world. I don't agree or believe the same, BUT I do support your right to be able to believe it and say it. Ok, I'm rambling now but I hope people see my point of view...
Thanks,
Rachel

i really respect you for taking on that big of a responsibility at such a young age. i just get sick of it when young people are sleeping around and not thinking its a big deal if they get pregnant because they could just get an abortion. you're setting a great example by taking care of your child.

I beleive if you think you're mature enough to have sex you should be mature enough to deal with the concequences even if it means raising a child at a young age. I got pregant at 16 and I took responsibility of my child and now I have no real regrets. Maybe if I had an abortion I might've gone out more or even grad. with all of my friends instead of early, but I prolly would have to live with the guilt of killing what could've been. The only real justification for abortion is rape.
That's just my opinion and I understand if other people don't agree but like I said it's just MY opinion not everybody else.

ahhhemmmm i would just like to state something:
YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING SEX WHEN YOU'RE 15! god wait a bit will you.

Abortion isnt murder at all. My bff had to have an abortion because she was 15 and got pregnant
and knew her dad would kick her outta the house if she got pregnant. Her absolute last resort was an abortion. The baby isnt alive when they remove it, it doesnt even have a heartbeat. I respect others opinions but in all occasions abortions arent always wrong

how is it murder? how is it not? it is a human being...although very small...living inside of a woman. something must have been done to create that baby. if you were just being irresponsible and got pregnant then how dare you think that a quick fix would be getting an abortion. if you got raped i feel for you...however you should have then put it up for abortion or give it to a local hospital of church. how dare you say that abortion is not murder.

OK, here is my opinion on abortion. I agree with many people that it is the right of the parent to decide if they want to keep their child or not. In many cases, I would agree that abortion is necessary. Such as I have an aunt that was at a party and was given a date rape drug. She was not drinking alcohol and she was not willing to have sex with this man. He forced himself on her and she got pregnant from it. She took the guy to court and everything and the baby to her would be a constant reminder to her of that horrible incident, and time in her life. But, I absolutely am against abortion. I think that it is morally wrong. I agree with most that it is murder. The child obviously has no say in the matter and I think if you don't want to get pregnant... don't take the chance. You know what will happen if you have unprotected sex... so if you don't want that then abstinence is for you. Also, if it is an accident and you just absolutely can not keep the baby... what is wrong with having it and then putting it up for adoption? Nothing. There are plenty of people out there that can not have babies... who would absolutely like to adopt one.

I agree that abortion is wrong. Oh and Wolfie? I am the one who made the comment that it is not the babys fault and when you think about it(if you think about it) I am right. Either way it goes it is not the childs fault. If you go out and open your legs and get pregnant than it is your fault and not the baby's. If you get raped and get pregnant, then it is the rapists fault and not the baby's. Getting raped or sleeping with somebody and getting pregnant in no possible way gives you the right to murder an innocent child because it is in no possible way the childs fault. Oh and I am pregnant with twins and this will be my second pregnancy because I have a 3 year old and I have not been executed yet. (Maybe it is because I am only pregnant because of a rape). The point is I think that abortion is stupid.

I understand that it's the parents' decision, but I still don't think that being raped justifies the killing of an innocent baby!! The baby didn't ask to be conceived!! God makes things happen for a reason and sometimes that can make you face things that you didn't think you'd have to face for a while!! Deal with it!! I also understand that people have their opinions and I'm just stating mine, whether you agree with it or not!!

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfie:
man, i hate babies. we should have only 1 kid per household to reduce the damn population, if you're pregnant with a second child you will be executed as well as your spouse. mmHmmm. thats how it should be, none of this "as many kiddies as you want" crap.

why is there talk of it being the babies fault? that makes no sense who the hell pulled that one out of their ass?

well, you know if its the persons fault for having sex then if you get into a car accident and kill someone you should be killed too because of course you meant to "murder" them.

why dont anti-choice people understand the fact that as an adult you have more damn rights than a baby. hell, you don't exist when you're a minor, your parents make all the decisions for you. plus our constitution is based on birth given rights, meanig AFTER birth you have your rights not before.

yeah, its's wrong. i understand why its wrong., but i also understand why someone would do it. the desicion is the parent(s). think of it this way... spread your opinion but let others have their own.

man, i hate babies. we should have only 1 kid per household to reduce the damn population, if you're pregnant with a second child you will be executed as well as your spouse. mmHmmm. thats how it should be, none of this "as many kiddies as you want" crap.

why is there talk of it being the babies fault? that makes no sense who the hell pulled that one out of their ass?

well, you know if its the persons fault for having sex then if you get into a car accident and kill someone you should be killed too because of course you meant to "murder" them.

why dont anti-choice people understand the fact that as an adult you have more damn rights than a baby. hell, you don't exist when you're a minor, your parents make all the decisions for you. plus our constitution is based on birth given rights, meanig AFTER birth you have your rights not before.