-----"""Iceland, you have turned this into a personal matter instead of makign it a debate."""

Not really. I'm just done with formality, because you're an extreme ***.



-----"""you never think anyone who disagrees with you knows what they're talking about. Seriously, look at every debate or every argument you've ever had and when has someone known what they're talking about when debating or argueing with you?"""

Untrue. I only say "you don't know what you're talking about" when the person I'm debating doesn't know sh¡t about the topic they have strong opinions on, and play it off like they know all kinds of info about it. You said that chances were you were more inclined to become homosexual if you made bad choices. That's wrong. Your behavior has nothing to do with whether you are gay or not. Then, you started talking about "former homosexuals". Here's where you know even less. Anyone knowledgeable about this topic would definitely know that "former homosexuals" are bisexual people who began to think they were attracted to the same gender, and to be "straight" dated only the opposite. That's not curing someone, that's not turning a homosexual straight. That's making a bisexual person only date one gender. You think there's a cure to homosexuality? Why hasn't this wonderful cure been on the news? Why haven't studies found there to be a cure? Why was homosexuality taken off the list of psychological disorders once people began to realize it couldn't be cured? If you think there's a cure, through behaving well, or going to church, or whatever, you are wrong, and you don't know what you're talking about, because the evidence to support that theory just isn't there.



-----"""I don't care if you're Gay, if you never have tried to go straight why argue over it?"""

I did try to be straight, for years! I dated girls, I made out with them some, and I said I liked them, and I tried to stop thinking about guys in a sexual way; trying to get my self off by thinking about girls instead. But you know what, it does not work. If I was sexually attracted to a girl, I would go out with her, I'm open to anything that might happen. But that has never happened. In all this time; meanwhile, it is always happening with guys. I'm just using this as an example, that doesn't mean I'm making it personal; especially since literally millions of gays would say something very similar to what I just did.



-----"""i never once said it would be liek flicking a switch. """

Go read my post. I didn't say you said that.



By the way, you didn't answer my question. Which was:

Why wouldn't you trust me, and all the other gay people on this site when we tell you we can't become straight?



I challenge you to get one "former" homosexual to come on yn, and explain how they were magically cured of their orientation (and please, don't do it yourself under a new noisename...). Because there's certainly enough homosexuals on yn who have been telling you it's not possible.

first of all even if there's a .001% success that's still success. That means that it's not technically impossible.

Yes, yes, i've come to expect you all to come out of the wood work about how christians are bigots, or ignorant or w/e. I know my religion and I know that amazing things have happened thanks to God. I know that if a homosexual became a christian and wanted to be straight that it is very possible. A lot of ppl out there are just un-willing to go through the trials that come with the change. Yes, you will likely still have temptation but if you suffer through it you will be set free. That's what a christians life pretty much is, suffering for freedom.

Earthgoddes, yes there is biblical basis, i know what you're going to say, "BAH! T"S ALL IN THE OT!1 I am 7331 researchorz" but if you look into it there is a difference between different laws in the OT, such as the beards andn the not lying with a man. There's a big diff between those two right? and i knwo you'll be liek "well you shouldn't shave if youre following laws of OT" but you fail to notice a difference between moral laws and ceremonial laws.
Also earthgoddess, i never said they were below me or less than me or called them evil or anything. They aren't evil, i know that.



Iceland, you have turned this into a personal matter instead of makign it a debate. Thank you very much for proving me correct in my original prediction but you never think anyone who disagrees with you knows what they're talking about. Seriously, look at every debate or every argument you've ever had and when has someone known what they're talking about when debating or argueing with you? So you are debunked, I don't care if you're Gay, if you never have tried to go straight why argue over it? Aswell, I never once said it was easy, though it might sound easy when i say it, i never once said it would be liek flicking a switch.

Sleeprocker:
People of my faith don't judge you on who you "love" we simply wish for you to come to have a relationship with Jesus. Of course i don't know you and i don't want to, simply because you sound liek some attitudinal pre-teen with a chip on her shoulder towards anyone with an opposing view.
We are not making them untrue to themselves, we're making them see their true selves and what God created them to be.
also i am alright with Gays, i don't hate them and i don't discriminate, it's uncomfortable to be hit on by a guy but i don't care if any of my friends are gay. I would just have to be a good friend to them and try to talk to them about jesus, i'm not gay-bashing i'm showing an opposing opinion to your own.

taboo:
you obviously have no contribution to this board besides insulting you are fully welcomed to not post unless you have something to add.

KarenKoltrane:
apparently you haven't read about apparent gay suicides or anything of the like in which ppl want to become straight but never really bother to look to God for help so they kill themselves. They obviously don't want to be gay anymore so much so that they would kill themselves. That's also a poor switch to condemning heterosexuality due to the fact that God created us to multiply. Also God created man and woman to be a perfect whole, physically and emotionally and spiritually. So christianity wouldn't condemn heterosexuality ever and it's a poor questio nto ask. Maybe if you made a better analogy or something.

I'm not saying each group thinks a certain way... At least not everyone in a given group. More often than not, though, it is people of the Christian faith (and many of it's sects) that often denounce the entire idea of homosexuality.

No offense to anyone that is Christian and is perfectly alright with gay people.

And, just wondering, but is there anyone else going to a GLSEN Leadership Training Institute this summer?

Eh...don't think all Christians think a certain way. No one should do that with any group. That will just get humanity in trouble.

quote:

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It takes councilling and prayer and i know you'll all be like, "CHRISTIAN! BIGOTS!!11!!w1~!" because you don't want to open you're mind to our POV bu w/e.

---

Even if you could...de-gay homosexuals, what makes you think that any homosexuals would want to change? I doubt they're going to do it so that they can join a church, as why would anyone purposely join a church, especially someone who has been hated and discriminated against by that very same church? The only reason I can think that homosexuals would want to not be homosexual is so they could escape discrimination. And I think that being in love, as many homosexuals are, and loving who you are, which all homosexuals do, after they come to terms with themselves, definitely overrides not wanting to be discriminated against.

Would you take a pill that would make you homosexual, if heterosexuality was condemned by Christianity?

because their stupid, don't know much, ignorant, or need to ge their head out of their ***, or maybe because some are gay themselves.

These are a few questions aimed mostly for conflictingzest.

Why do people of your faith have such a problem with who I love, or who my friends love? And what business of yours is it, anyway - you don't even KNOW me.

And why, dear god WHY would you ever want to make someone be so untrue to themselves and to others that they can't love who they really want to?

~M~

I think that if humans chose to be gay(which, just to say, I don't believe) than I think they chose it because of love for a person of the same sex and not many people can fight that feeling.

-----"""This whole ex-gay thing is a huge farse. They are lying. Badly."""


Yep. Electro-shock treatment didn't work in making people straight, and they tried that until the 70's. Apparently they thought it would work on all mental disorders.

Electro-shock therapy really hurts. Some kids were forced to take it; because their parents ordered it to be done to them.

quote:

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Homosexuality can be changed but it's a bit harder than cold turkey and yes i've heard of former lesbians.

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Would you please stop with the former lesbian bull****. It's so false and made up it hurts. A majority of these people who "change" were either bisexual in the first place (in which they were comfortable, sexually, with both men and women), they simply became celibate, or they were forced to change with inhumane "reparative therapies". I hate to burst your bubble of innocence and morality, but the success rates for the thousands of homosexuals who try to change are less than 0.01%.

This whole ex-gay thing is a huge farse. They are lying. Badly.

quote:

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No Bible basis exists for the so called "Ex-Gay" movement that has sprung up in the past 15 years in many denominations and independent religious groups. No scientific basis exists for the "reparative therapy" to "cure" homosexuals or "deliver" people from their homosexuality. Claims of such cures and deliverance do not hold up under close examination.

---

"Ex-Gay Fraud"

quote:

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In addition to Richards coming out, the "ex-gay" ministries have been setback by the new formation of groups of former "ex-gays" who say the ministries do not work

According to a Boston Globe article published last week: "Washington and California, ex-ex gays have created support groups and others have taken their gripping testimonies to the Internet. Gay rights specialists say 'ex-ex gays' began coming out again after the Christian right published ads in leading newspapers in 1998, promoting what they refer to gay 'conversion' therapy."

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gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/events/091500ev.htm

quote:

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Paulk also told the Wall Street Journal on April 21, 1993 that "To say that we've arrived at this place of total heterosexuality - that we're totally healed - is misleading."

But I thought he was "Ex-Gay"! He'd been cured through prayer! It gets better. Turns out that Paulk's "Ex-Lesbian" wife may not be a lesbian at all. Time Magazine reported on July 27, 1998 that she refused to name any ex-lovers, and they were unable to find even a single former girlfriend.

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quote:

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How does Focus on the Family hurt people? How does John Paulk hurt people?

By telling them they're less than human. By denigrating them. By spreading innuendo centuries outdated that there's something fundamentally wrong and evil about them, and they should feel guilty about it.

By driving gay teens to suicide. By driving adult gays into depression, drugs, or alcohol, robbed of their feeling of self-worth. By constantly, endlessly, relentlessly, shamelessly nagging them that they are bad. That they are evil. That they are subhuman. That they're going to hell. That God hates them. That they could change if they only wanted to - calculated, hateful, psychological torture that goes against everything modern biology and psychology tells us. That they're doomed to a life of unhappiness (in part because of groups like Focus on the Family) because they don't love members of the opposite sex. Endless torture.

By creating for gays a virtual hell on earth, poking and prodding them constantly with lies just like the whole "Ex-Gay" John Paulk lie. By defaming them with bile and venom they'd not use on their worst enemies.

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web.morons.org/article.jsp?id=85

-----"""Homosexuality can be changed but it's a bit harder than cold turkey and yes i've heard of former lesbians. It takes councilling and prayer and i know you'll all be like, "CHRISTIAN! BIGOTS!!11!!w1~!" because you don't want to open you're mind to our POV bu w/e. You can do a search on Google for former omosexuals and find answers to. PPl have done it and can still do it. Even if you are "born gay" which I highly doubt, you can still avoid it like being born more inclined to alcoholism."""

You stupid ****ing *******. You have no clue what you are talking about. You aren't gay; you don't know what it feels like to be gay, and you don't know how impossible it is to simply switch who you are sexually attracted to.

Now; make no mistake, I am not disagreeing with you because I think you are a CHRISTIAN BIGOT (although you have proven you are one countless times on this site). I am disagreeing with you because you are flat out wrong, and you don't know anything about what you claim to know. I am gay, and take it from me, it is impossible for me to become straight. It is exactly like asking you to become gay. It just does not work. Why is that so difficult for you to accept? I mean, wouldn't you trust me, and all the other gay people on this site when we tell you we can't become straight?

Answer that last question.

Alcholism does affect you emotionally you silly silly person. It's an addiction it affects every part of your life. Homosexuality can be changed but it's a bit harder than cold turkey and yes i've heard of former lesbians. It takes councilling and prayer and i know you'll all be like, "CHRISTIAN! BIGOTS!!11!!w1~!" because you don't want to open you're mind to our POV bu w/e. You can do a search on Google for former omosexuals and find answers to. PPl have done it and can still do it. Even if you are "born gay" which I highly doubt, you can still avoid it like being born more inclined to alcoholism.

If infact they ever do prove that you can be born gay, (you can't). the chances are that it's just that you'd be mroe inclined to become a homosexual if you make bad choices.

And that's my rant for now. if you want i can post links to sites of those who stopped being homosexual.

Homosexuality.

what the ***|< is "the 'H' word" ?

Eh, sleep, I was just correcting a small statement and got way off-topic. Anyway, I'm just posting some "food for thought" around here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I very well may be, but didn't the Bible say that God created everyone in his own image?

Yeah, but there isn't treatment for falling in love.

I, for one, have never met a "recovering lesbian".

There is nothing wrong with being truthful, is there?

Once you're an alocholic, you can never choose not to be. You can become a recovering alcoholic, but it's very easy for someone to give into old habits.

I think it's because living in denial is hard when you have to deny who you love.

becasue being gay affects YOU emotionally. being an alcoholic does have an effect on you, but it can be cured, go away, etc. being gay stays there, and it sucks to not be yourself