What do you mean, personal reason? Obviously if someone has an abortion she has a reason, and more often than not, it's a personal one. After all, it IS her body. Obviously the parents shouldn't be able to decide if she should have her baby or not, but if she's under 18, they can chose not to support her anymore. And when you're pregnant, under 18 with no experience and have just been kicked out of the house, it's not easy to get a job. Most people wouldn't even want to. You have no idea what sleeping on the streets can do to you. A lot of people lose their will to live or go crazy. Not exactly the best state to raise a baby in.
I have said it many times, and that is that if a woman decides she wants to get one, then she should go ahead and get one. i dont c anything wrong with it. if u accidently got pregnant at the age of 13, im sure you wouldnt want 2 have the baby. sure you where the one who had sex, and should of been aware of the consequences, but accidents do happen. and if you got raped and became pregnant im sure u wouldnt want 2 give birth to your rapists child. there are many reasons why a woman might want 2 get an abortion. and i think that the only person who should decide wether women should have an abortion or not shouldnt be anyone else but that women who is pregnant. abortions are a personal decision that nobody should decide for someone else
quote: Hmm. A few cases I can think of- a girl would get kicked out of her house if her family had known she was pregnant and would have been forced to live on the street. A woman who loses her job whilke pregnant and is left with no money. Or a woman who's husband/boyfriend leaves or dies and is left to raise a child alone. yeah, they're really selfish. How could they??? /sarcasm.
why is it up to her family if she has a baby or not it is her body and her life if they choose not to support her it will be hard but she can do it there are 3000 family planning centers around this country that train women for jobs before and after pregnancy, give them food and shelter, and are there for them whenever they need it. and they may also put the child up for adoption.
quote: Because sometimes it's the best option.
when would this be?? "IT WAS THE BEST OPTION THAT I ABORTED MY BABY" Have you ever heard someone say that?
quote: A woman who's married with a couple of kids, and gets pregnant, but finds out she's pregnant with triplets or more, and she just doesn't have enough money?
personal reason
quote: A girl who's parents would kick her out if they found out she was pregnant? Incest? Someone who loses her job while pregnant? The baby will have a deadly disease?
personal reason and discrimination.
quote: Listen here **** face.
thank you. to be hated is to be loved. thank you all so much
quote:what a "choice" we have made for her, she climbs onto the clinic table and endures a violation deeper than rape.
How do you know? Did you go through it? Or did you have an abortion? What, did you read it on an anti-abortion site?
quote:Face the facts, few abortions are done for the reasons of rape, incest or to save the life of the woman, most are done for messy personal reasons, whatever they may be.
Hmm. A few cases I can think of- a girl would get kicked out of her house if her family had known she was pregnant and would have been forced to live on the street. A woman who loses her job whilke pregnant and is left with no money. Or a woman who's husband/boyfriend leaves or dies and is left to raise a child alone. yeah, they're really selfish. How could they??? /sarcasm.
quote:women don't want abortions, they don't want to kill their babies. So why do they?
Because sometimes it's the best option.
quote:because the option is there and at first it seems like an easy way out of the emotional and physical drag.
Oh, please. Not everyone can take care of a baby. Why should you force someone who can't take care of a baby to do it? You know they won't be able to do it right. Side-note: Most crime offenders were mistreated or come from broken families. Most teen mothers or anyone who has an unwanted child doesn't raise it well. So it's not uncommon for the two cases to mix.
quote:Abortion prolifers and abortion pro choicers have not only turned against each other but have taken the bond between mother and child and have broken it, have made the baby the enemy of the mother and the mother an enemy to the world.
A baby can be a big burden when unwanted, and a wonderful gift when it comes at the right time.
quote:we has human beings know its wrong but we try to convince ourselves that it is not because hey, this baby will live an unhappy life because he/she wasn't wanted. we are simply saving it from an unhappy life we are always thinking of the baby. This is not true.
It's been proven.
quote:"Every woman need not bear a child, by every woman should feel proud kinship in earthly, elemental beauty of birth." -Frederica Mathewes-Green
Oh, please.
quote:calling the baby a "fetus" or a "ball of cells" does NOT change the fact that this is in fact a baby and a living human being. Scientifically proven cells are living organisms and if you took biology then you SHOULD know that.
And you'd know it's not considered a baby. It's devolping, yes, but not much more.
quote:Three weeks after conception the baby has already formed a beautiful working heart
Plenty of animals have beautiful working hears that a lot of prolifers don't mind eating.
quote:how then can you not call it life?
I don't believe in the bible, but if you care, the bible doesn't consider a fetus a life. And in the biolical sense.
quote: you're making assumptions that are different from mine and therefore i cannot accept your logic.
Just because they differ from your own does not mean that they're wrong. It's a opinion, which is mainly based upon assumptions and personal experiences, anyway.
why should i take this as anything more than an opinion by someone who probably has not experienced either?
quote:Three weeks after conception the baby has already formed a beautiful working heart
so you support abortions performed prior to 3 weeks?
quote:how then can you not call it life?
it's alive. but i don't view it as a baby. scientifically, it's not a baby until parturition (the birthing process). none of my "biology" classes stated that an embryo is synonomous with a human being; you're making assumptions that are different from mine and therefore i cannot accept your logic.
what a "choice" we have made for her, she climbs onto the clinic table and endures a violation deeper than rape.
Face the facts, few abortions are done for the reasons of rape, incest or to save the life of the woman, most are done for messy personal reasons, whatever they may be.
women don't want abortions, they don't want to kill their babies. So why do they? because the option is there and at first it seems like an easy way out of the emotional and physical drag. Abortion prolifers and abortion pro choicers have not only turned against each other but have taken the bond between mother and child and have broken it, have made the baby the enemy of the mother and the mother an enemy to the world. we has human beings know its wrong but we try to convince ourselves that it is not because hey, this baby will live an unhappy life because he/she wasn't wanted. we are simply saving it from an unhappy life we are always thinking of the baby. This is not true.
"Every woman need not bear a child, by every woman should feel proud kinship in earthly, elemental beauty of birth." -Frederica Mathewes-Green
calling the baby a "fetus" or a "ball of cells" does NOT change the fact that this is in fact a baby and a living human being. Scientifically proven cells are living organisms and if you took biology then you SHOULD know that.
Three weeks after conception the baby has already formed a beautiful working heart
as i stated before, the vast majority of abortions are conducted in the 1st trimester. partial birth abortions encompass abortions at a much later date - approximately the beginning of the 3rd trimester and later - and are only a fraction of the total number of abortions. compare the number of dilation and curretage vs. dilation and extraction abortions and you'll see what i mean.
and you also misunderstood me earlier - mothers have a greater chance of dying (maternal mortality) giving birth to a full-term child vs. a mother having a 1st trimester dilation and curretage. just something to think about in terms of the drawbacks to abortion - every process involved in childbirth has side effects.
abortion isn't necessarily murder. The mothers who have abortions aren't doing it for fun. What if the mother is just barely a teenager and was raped? She wouldn't want to keep the baby because it would be a reminder. Adoption isn't bad(my cousin is adopted), but does anyoen rememebr that mother who gave her baby up for adoption, and the lawyer ended up keeping her? The little girl was found beaten to death at the age of 5 or 6. That's not a life, at least not a real one. Plus, it has been proven that adoption is more psychologically damaging than abortions are for the mother. Abortions shouldn't be used as birth control, and there should be limits, but they should be allowed. What if the fetus had some kind of disease or deformity that would make it die shortlya fter birth. Any mohter whoa ctually cared about ehr child wouldn't want them to suffer. also, what if the fetus had a condition that if delivered could kill it and/or the mother... how is that murder?
"The number of "partial-birth" abortions has tripled in the past four years, according to a report on abortion trends released this week. An estimated 2,200 dilation and extraction, or D&X, abortions were conducted in 2000, said researchers with the Alan Guttmacher Institute, who surveyed all known U.S. abortion providers during the past two years. In 1996, institute researchers estimated that there had been 650 D&X abortions, which are performed on fetuses older than 20 weeks. Opponents of the procedure call it partial-birth abortion because in some cases the fetus is old enough to survive outside the womb."
quote: over 80% of all abortions are conducted in the 1st trimester, and the number of 3rd trimester abortions are extremely low
Actually...
The greatest number of partial birth abortions are performed during the later part of the second trimester, from 20 - 26 weeks of pregnancy -- a period that covers both before and after "viability". (A 1991 NIH survey of selected neo-natal units found that 23 percent of infants BORN AT 23 WEEKS now survive.) However, partial birth abortions have also often been performed even in the third trimester (AFTER 26 WEEKS).
quote: the number of maternal deaths following a 1st trimester abortion is proportionately lower than the number of maternal deaths following delivery of a term baby. yes, abortion has complications and side effects. but so does giving birth.
Because the child isn't fully developed. And researchers have concluded that females who abort their child after the second trimester are more at risk for sickness and depression as opposed to them giving birth.
And norrow, "fetus" is just the scientific terminology for "unborn baby."
quote: Fetuses are not people, only "potential" people
fetus-a developing human from usually three months after conception to birth
quote: Illegalizing abortion because it prevents babies from being born is kind of like outlawing the prevention of marriages that were "destined" to occur
Uhm.. that's like comparing alligators to balloons. I mean, come on. Abortion should be illegal because it's murder. Make sense? An unborn baby is a living being.
quote:the majority of women who have both had abortions AND later given birth, most will tell you birth hurts much less.
i am highly skeptical of this, unless you are talking about partial-birth abortions - and even then, i'm not sure that this statement is correct. the pain of a 1st trimester abortion is magnitudes lower than labor - mainly due to not having their birth canal and associated muscles impossibly stretched to accomodate an 8 pound baby. the instruments used in a dilatation and curretage abortion procedure are thinner than a speculum.
Fetuses are not people, only "potential" people. Illegalizing abortion because it prevents babies from being born is kind of like outlawing the prevention of marriages that were "destined" to occur. The major difference is that you can physically see a fetus, or soon-to-be-baby, but you can't physically see a soon-to-be marriage.
yes, yes, the national right to life foundation always features disturbing pics of partial abortions and details the worst side effects of abortions, despite the fact that over 80% of all abortions are conducted in the 1st trimester, and the number of 3rd trimester abortions are extremely low. i have no problem with NRL using the more extreme examples to further their argument. but i do wish they would stop attempting to portray all abortions as a partial birth abortion - the next time you talk to a NRL person, ask them when all of their pictures were taken and you'll find that overwhelmingly they are using pics taken from before 1980 when the number of illegal, partial birth abortions were much higher (yes, i know that abortions were federally legalized in 1973 - but the number of illegal abortions still remained high for the rest of the decade). the pictures are shocking - but it should be remembered that these pics are from a society that did outlaw abortion. outlaw abortions today and you'll see an explosion in the number of partial birth abortion pictures.
the number of maternal deaths following a 1st trimester abortion is proportionately lower than the number of maternal deaths following delivery of a term baby. yes, abortion has complications and side effects. but so does giving birth.
ultimately, the NRL uses some good examples and facts - but they are extremely selective in what they present and virtually never present the other side. i visited one of their new york offices on a field trip and the entire 3 hours consisted of showing pictures/videos for shock value with no real attempt at factual discussion. there was no room for rational discourse - simply an attempt to sicken people with 25 year old images of mutilated, 38 week-old fetuses. very immature.
i'd suggest using scientific journals, or at the very least, go to multiple sites for information and sift through the propoganda on both sides. not that anyone is truly objective, but the NRL is laughably biased compared to many other groups on both sides of the issue.
quote: Listen here **** face. Are you somehow under the impression that people abort fully developed babies? An aborted fetus certainly isnt something you want to pinch on the cheek and say "oh what a cute baby". It isnt a baby yet and stopping it at the appropriate time saves many people pain and suffering. (as well as the aborted baby who doesnt feel or comprehend that they never lived). ****head
Uhm, Jookly.. try to calm down. Anyways, I'd like to point out certain discrepencies with your post. I hope you don't feel the need to use vulgar language with me; I'd hate to be rude to you.
First off, people do abort fully developed babies. It's called partial birth abortions. When the mother is giving birth to her child, the doctor/nurse practitioner sticks a metal pin through the baby's neck. The child can feel the pain, but is immediately killed. That's murder. And just so you know, everyone is a ball of cells.
Second of all, if you talk to the majority of women who have both had abortions AND later given birth, most will tell you birth hurts much less. Some describe abortion as feeling like their organs being pulled out. Many women experience nausea, constpation, and other side effects after abortion. Something to think about.
okay..."DISTURBED"yeah, you seem pretty disturbed. what are you talking about (ball of cells)? if that "fetus" really isn't alive, then, why do people say "We're having a baby!"? face the facts. when women have an abortion they are killing a human being--a life--a child. there is no other way to put it. besides, everyone on this earth has a purpose. how do you know that the child you're killing isn't supposed to be the next great president or the person who discovers the cure for cancer? that person may have very well already been murdered in an abortion.oreochik03@aol.com
"How is abortion any different then what Dr. Kovorkian (sp?) did? How come it is illegal to murder, yet it is perfectly legal to have an abortion?" Because Kevorkian didn't "murder" a cloister of cells. because there is usually no brian or organs...let alone anything resembling a human-like form.
"But overall who decides what is right and what is wrong?" You do. (General you) That is why religion and parenting attempt to teach moral values. If you believe that it is wrong...don't do it. But should you decide what others do because YOU feel it to be wrong?
and what are the reasons for having an abortion? usually because it was a mistake or because you were raped. " Wrong. There are many different reasons. Ranges from rape to accident to drugs to diseases to what the child may be like. Crack babys do NOT have easy lives. Not only are they born an addict, but they need serious medical help for the remainder of their short life.
"And if you were raped please put the child up for adoption." Have you any idea what a woman goes through after being raped? You do not know of all the fear she has. And her emotional state will remain unstable for quite some time. Now what happens whan that child wants to know who his/her REAL parents are. They find out, find the mother and the mother has to go through al the torment again. Its not that simple.
Having an abortion isn't a walk in the park. The woemn who have one suffer physically and emotionally for weeks, months, even years. Its not something that you walk in, lay down and in 30 min, you're fine. Get your head out of your arse. Go experience life.
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