So I guess it's just coincidence that I would get payed about 20 or 30% more than you would if we where to have the same job and the same working conditions. Discriminaton is everywhere. If you apply for a job and a man with equal qualification apply's along side you, guess who is going to get it. Also, who is expected to be a better cook in your house? Who is expected to go shopping?
Sexual discrimination is present in every part of social life, we have just chosen to ignore it because its not convenient for us to admit that our supposedly free society doesn't give equal treatment to both halves of it's populous.
This may have seemed off topic, but I bring it up because social structure in the western world derives from the judeo-christian faith's, thus religion is largely responsible for the current status of women as lesser beings. A century ago you couldn't have voted in a democratic election, not because there was a political motivation for not wanting women to vote, but because women where factually viewed as inferior beings, with lesser reasoning capability, and obviously, due to this, there was no reason for them to be involved in political life. Christianity justified this for a long time, and now that we know that we are equal in all aspects discriminaton still prevails in teh form of social organization deriving from a faith that considered you inferior.
Believing in The God of the Bible, believing in Christ is a choice...a christians lifestyle is not a taught thing, although Parents and households can enforce Christian Doctrine as the truth and can even to a degree force children to go to church...no one can force you to believe in Christ...christianity is not about reading a book, christianity is about a Relationship with God...
Actually...you're wrong. Self delusionment is a common act. Also, consider this. A child joins the religon, and by joins, I mean accepts Jesus, for some reasons. This makes it happy, pleases it's parents, makes it accepted, etc. It is a taught thing, in many homes.
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As a christian i believe Homosexuality to be a sin
Can you please stop saying that? Not all Christians believe it is a sin, and I'm not talking about just me here. Instead, let's compromise with your ridiculous phrases, and could you say "as a person, I believe it is a sin"?
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And come on, the sex crazed homosexuals in the Jordan valley are punished gravely for their sins
They weren't all homosexuals. They were all just...sex craved.
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it was not clean then for a man to be with another man
In ritual. It was not clean for a man to be with another man in ritual.
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(Are you saying God made a mistake?)...
I'm wondering if you want this answered honestly...About homosexuality, no. Love transcends the physical, but there are physical problems...such as transsexuality that yes, I do believe he made a mistake, or failed to fix one...
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I feel that sexual discrimination is extremely horrible and also NON-EXISTANT for the most part in the US.
What bullshit. I get discriminated every day.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
And I'm a girl. So, if I'm not offended by it, why should you be? And it just so happens that we're talking biological here.
I'm offended by it because attitudes like yours are the ones perpetuating sexual discrimination. If people tolerate discrimination their actions have an effect on their culture and surroundings, thus it is more likely for them to suffer discrimination or partake in it.
And what do you mean by biological? There is no biological use for anyone. We are not meant to be used, we are meant to do as we please in our quest to achieve plenitude and happyness. I'm not a reproductive machine, I'm a sentient being with a consciousness and I will reproduce if I want to.
You essentially just denied human free will by saying that god's designation is for us to make babies.
Also, if you quote me don't edit what I say. YN is quite rare in the fact that it allows swearing because we are all mature enough to cope with a few sequential letters that convey crude concepts.
Yes, speed. You can write them, but if I'm going to quote you, I really have some moral issues with swearing, and it really makes me uncomfortable to have them posted by me. So could you please just allow me that little liberty? Please?
No. God's designation is not for us to make babies. I feel that sexual discrimination is extremely horrible and also NON-EXISTANT for the most part in the US.
I don't think my only purpose is to be a mother, but I do think that it's an important aspect of my purpose. Maybe not even having babies, but I believe that it's highly important for me to someday be a mother, just as it is highly important for men to someday be fathers, but it's not my only purpose in life. Last time I checked, only women can have babies, so I don't see how it's sexist to suggest that they should. It's kind of life. Reproduction is all part of it.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
And what do you mean by biological? There is no biological use for anyone. We are not meant to be used, we are meant to do as we please in our quest to achieve plenitude and happyness. I'm not a reproductive machine, I'm a sentient being with a consciousness and I will reproduce if I want to.
You essentially just denied human free will by saying that god's designation is for us to make babies.
Also, if you quote me don't edit what I say. YN is quite rare in the fact that it allows swearing because we are all mature enough to cope with a few sequential letters that convey crude concepts.
The fact that you want to choose when and if you reproduce is your choice...that was not what this post was about, we have been talking about homosexuality...its been clouded by some very weird comments...but i believe, and i'm sure hubbabaloo can defend her own statement, that the use of;
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leaving the natural use of the woman
relates to the fact that the original design of the human body was such that a man and a woman are compatible for sex...arguments based upon the levitical passages (those arguments by yourself and shade) being about cleanliness underline this fact, it was not clean then for a man to be with another man...God is God he knows everything if it wasnt clean then he knew that, and designed the genitals of man and woman such that they go together in a clean and productive way (Are you saying God made a mistake?)...he doesnt design things incorrectly, that need the intervention of man to correct by the design and manufacture of condoms, so that a man can be with man...Also if God designed us correctly in the first place, then that was how it was supposed to be forever...the bible states that God is the '...same yesterday, today, and tomorrow...' the only reason for a change to the design would come through corruption of the original...
What the passage is saying is that for men to be with men leaves the original or natural design of a mans body...it has nothing to do with Gods desire for us to have children...although the fact that he only blesses a sexual relationship between man and woman with a child is a point i would like your opinions on...also that is not the only plan God has for us..
In answer to your question above yes the bible does talk about Lot (the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah) and many take their views on homosexuality from those passages
So I found the passages in biblegateway.com, and it's all pretty consistent with what I know from the Koran (Lot's family comes to Jordan, the people there are sex crazed and try to break down the door to get at them, Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt etc) but here's the weird part. From Genesis 19: "So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived. Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father."
I'm very disturbed by how casually this is mentioned. And come on, the sex crazed homosexuals in the Jordan valley are punished gravely for their sins, so when a prophet escapes from there the first thing he thinks to do is impregnate his daughters? It's just not logical, and it makes the damning of homosexuals seem a bit insignificant. I mean there's the fact that the people of Jordan were forcing themselves on people, but if a guy is sleeping with his daughters it seems he should be punished too. It's verses like this that make me distrust the whole Bible because it's jut not reasonable. I don't believe any man would decide to sleep with his daughters (or the other way around) after witnessing his wife turn into salt for just LOOKING at the Jordanian perverts behind her.
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... you will never understand my motives or beliefs, moral stands or life...that is not an insult, so please dont be offended, i'm simply explaining my earlier post...
I do understand your motives, you just say Jesus where I say God. I get what you mean though, no offense taken.
~*The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.
I'm offended by it because attitudes like yours are the ones perpetuating sexual discrimination. If people tolerate discrimination their actions have an effect on their culture and surroundings, thus it is more likely for them to suffer discrimination or partake in it.
At what point did habbabaloo tolerate discrimination?
As a christian i believe Homosexuality to be a sin, just like i believe to kill someone is a sin or to commit adultery is a sin, or and this may shock you to lie is a sin, or to steal is a sin, have you ever told a lie? have you ever taken anything that wasnt yours? at some point in our lives we all sin in the eyes of God, i dont condemn you for it, i dont discriminate against you because you have as a child told a lie...but it is still a sin! Because i as a christian believe Homosexuality is a sin, in no way does this give anyone the right to treat others as an unequal...because in Gods eyes we have all sinned...if others go on to treat homosexuals as less than equals then that is the other persons choice to become judge and jury, and God will Deal with that at the end of their lives...it is no ones fault but their own choice to discriminate...
Gods plan for all of us is that none will perish, that all would be with him for eternity, our sins (whatever they are) stop that from happening...God instructed those that knew him to go out and tell people about him so that they wouldnt perish but live with and know their creator...
If you look at the word sin as 'cancer' (and i mean no disrespect to anyone, i do not belittle cancer but use the word to increase the importance of the word sin) then would it be right for me to not tell you about the cure, the cure to the 'cancer' that is sin...that cure Jesus...
On that basis i can not stop answering posts such as the one that started this thread...just incase someone with their own issues use it as a way to discriminate...
I can't respect someone who believes just because they where brought up in a household that enforced christian doctrine as an absolute truth.
Believing in The God of the Bible, believing in Christ is a choice...a christians lifestyle is not a taught thing, although Parents and households can enforce Christian Doctrine as the truth and can even to a degree force children to go to church...no one can force you to believe in Christ...christianity is not about reading a book, christianity is about a Relationship with God...
I came from a strong christian household, i gave my life to Christ at around 14 then a few years later i got married and allowed myself to drift away i wanted to do it my way...Subconciously i now looked at the bible as a book telling me what to do, i put down the Relationship i had with God, the thing that made the book come to life, to mean something and to be more than just a book but to be the Words of God in the words of man...
I feel i must stress that you cant be a Christian because you are bought upto be one you have to choose, yes many people who are bought up in Christian Households make that decision to follow christ...But God looks to you to choose...that is the gift of free choice...
You dont have to respect me but know that i do not come to you with a forced knowledge of Christ, but as one with the fingerprints of God all over his life, i am a follow of Christ because i Chose to Follow him...
Are there any verses in the Bible addressing Lot (I think that's the correct English translation, not sure) and his people? In the Koran, that's basically where the verses on homosexuality come from, so I'm just wondering if there's any mention of him in the Bible. I understand the issue with mistranslation, but it does seem very much like the Bible is endorsing the man + woman arrangement consistently throughout its contents.
Sphinx,
In answer to your question above yes the bible does talk about Lot (the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah) and many take their views on homosexuality from those passages, you are also right in believing the bible endorses the man + woman arrangement consistantly throughout its content...
As for your views on homosexuality....i agree sin is sin, be that stealing / murder / adultery / homosexuality, i know as a christian that i am a sinner...however my sins were paid for by Christ...this is the same for everyone the difference between myself and a non-christian is that i have accepted and fully believe that Christ has paid for my sin and i have asked him to take the lead in my life...
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To discuss with a non-christian or even to try and put forward the life and the moral stands i as a bible believing christian live wont make much sense...
What i meant by this is unless you know Jesus, you know his forgiveness, his acceptance and his love then you wont grasp the full meaning of it, although people who believe in different things to me may live great lives very similar to mine and in places better than mine without Jesus you will never understand my motives or beliefs, moral stands or life...that is not an insult, so please dont be offended, i'm simply explaining my earlier post...
Nah, she just admitted that we're animals. Which isn't a bad thing. There's still a "use" for every person, and if we were in a less human-plentiful world, that "use" would be a very important thing. At the base of humanity, and any [physically] living thing, there is only one meaning: to reproduce. And in that situation, being homosexual would be severely looked down upon, since they wouldn't be contributing to reproduction.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
And I'm a girl. So, if I'm not offended by it, why should you be? And it just so happens that we're talking biological here.
I'm offended by it because attitudes like yours are the ones perpetuating sexual discrimination. If people tolerate discrimination their actions have an effect on their culture and surroundings, thus it is more likely for them to suffer discrimination or partake in it.
And what do you mean by biological? There is no biological use for anyone. We are not meant to be used, we are meant to do as we please in our quest to achieve plenitude and happyness. I'm not a reproductive machine, I'm a sentient being with a consciousness and I will reproduce if I want to.
You essentially just denied human free will by saying that god's designation is for us to make babies.
Also, if you quote me don't edit what I say. YN is quite rare in the fact that it allows swearing because we are all mature enough to cope with a few sequential letters that convey crude concepts.
**** Paul or whoever wrote that. If you want to use the bible in a discussion atleast try to use verses that respect both halfes of humanity. (and to clear up possible missunderstandings due to a profile error, I'm a guy)
And I'm a girl. So, if I'm not offended by it, why should you be? And it just so happens that we're talking biological here.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
You know I think you can accept them and no push them away. God says to love everyone no matter what, so I don't see how this is any different. I don't know if he would agree with the bi way of life, but if shouldn't affect how you treat someone.
I can't respect someone who believes just because they where brought up in a household that enforced christian doctrine as an absolute truth.
With your explanation, I agree. I find that annoying at best. I think I've found a little shard of the truth. It's not good enough for me; I want all of it, and I'm willing to quest my life to find it. If it takes me away from Christianity, or leads me to a different place than I thought it would, so be it. People shouldn't limit themselves to one version of the truth, especially one boxed into a term such as "religon."
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Speed, you don't have to be a consistent antagonist.
Sorry if you found that offensive, it wasn't my intent. I merely stated that there are other options beyond blindly following what the bible says. There's a difference between reasoned faith(which i presume you have), and blind faith. I can respect someone who has motives to believe however subjective they are; I can't respect someone who believes just because they where brought up in a household that enforced christian doctrine as an absolute truth.
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Sex is a beautiful thing if you're ready for it in all the right ways.
More than your views on sex it's the entire attitude that some people take I can't stand. Why talk about sex as something alien, something that deserves more respect than many other more important issues. Sexual intercourse is trivial, and in most cases, only practiced for pleasure. It's perfectly natural. Everytime sex and religion mingle on here I can't help feeling there are some people that grit their teeth whenever the word comes up. And on it being such a delicate subject, that's a stereotype. Western society has demonized human sexuality far too much.
Wrong. you can choose to not abide his word because his word doesn't make much sense most of the time
Speed, you don't have to be a consistent antagonist. This is not helping the discussion.
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So far when I ask about this people say that god forbids it because he/she/it doesn't want us to suffer, the common justification being that premarital sex may hurt our feelings.
Common opinion states that marriage is a Christian establishment. (something Shade does not agree with) It is stated that it is a holy union before God, etc. It's a lifetime commitment, in other words, and sex would be the physical representation of that commitment, to the one person.
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I think that you comparing sex to killing is alittle extreme
If premarital sex and murder are both sins, there is no extreme comparison.
Aria, might you mean Song of Songs? And I believe that is interpreted as to being about love, not sex.
...a Wandering Star for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever...
Why? So far when I ask about this people say that god forbids it because he/she/it doesn't want us to suffer, the common justification being that premarital sex may hurt our feelings.
Now there's and obvious paradox here because on the one hand god gives us free will, and though we war and kill each other he/she/it doesn't intervene, yet for some reason, allthough all this killing is tolerated, god makes an explicit prohibition of sex using the pretext that it is for our protection.
You're right, God does give us free will. It's not that sex is evil, it's just that originally sex was meant to be a special bond between husband and wife. If they couldn't give each other anything, that was one thing that they could. I think now-a-days people don't see it in that way. Sex is a beautiful thing if you're ready for it in all the right ways. I think that you comparing sex to killing is alittle extreme. But yeah I want to see where it says in the Bible that sex is evil. Heck Song of Solomon is all about sex. It is humans who have used that as an extreme. In the end the free will is all yours. And it's really wrong for people to tell a person that they are going to Hell cause they could be right next to the person they're talking to.
Why? So far when I ask about this people say that god forbids it because he/she/it doesn't want us to suffer, the common justification being that premarital sex may hurt our feelings.
Now there's and obvious paradox here because on the one hand god gives us free will, and though we war and kill each other he/she/it doesn't intervene, yet for some reason, allthough all this killing is tolerated, god makes an explicit prohibition of sex using the pretext that it is for our protection.
I personally am not bi, but I have friends who are, and I used to think it was weird, but now I'm fine with it.
As Christians we should not judge anyone. If we judge we are taking on the role of God, and He doesn’t like that to much. So as Christians we should live as Jesus did and love every one. Let’s not forget that we as Christians are sinners to. On the sex topic though, any sex out side of marriage is a sin. Even more than that any sexual thought about someone who you are not married to is a sin. Now remember I didn’t make this up, it’s in the bible. So is being bi wrong? It’s fine as long as there is nothing sexual about it. But as soon as lust comes in to the picture then it is as wrong as regular sex before marriage.
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