Okay, VoA. Let's get a couple things straight.

First, that WAS the first thing that you said, about not having one parent around.

Secondly, HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A DISEASE OR AN ALLERGIC REACTION. It is the way people feel, not the way someone made them.

And third, lots of parents become "overbearing" to make truly gay kids straight, not vice-versa. Try a little bit of this: EDUCATION.

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Originally posted by Aguagon:
No, my friend, your family and upbringing do not determine your sexual preference. Granted, I can't prove this, but you can't prove the converse. For every gay child who did have an upbringing with a parent missing, there's many more who had both there the whole time. Some parents do what's "right" in your eyes, and teach their children homosexuality is wrong, and _still_ have homosexual children. The only thing these parents manage to accomplish is distancing themselves from their children.

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I never said that was the only thing that caused it. In additon to an absent father, an overbearing mother can produce the same results. Also sexual molestation can trigger that as well.

Wait. In the '60's, "cat" was slang for something... I think it was a cool man. So that way if a man thought he was a cat, then that's good...

Perfectly sane and knowledgable about himself. Or herself, as she may like to be called.

And guys that think themselves as cats aren't mentally ill, either. They're just a little different.

I'm sure you're a little different, too.

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Originally posted by VoiceofAmerica:
Just out of curiousity, what about your family? did you grow up with one parrent, or did you feel that one of the was absent. that can sometimes cause homosexuality.

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No, my friend, your family and upbringing do not determine your sexual preference. Granted, I can't prove this, but you can't prove the converse. For every gay child who did have an upbringing with a parent missing, there's many more who had both there the whole time. Some parents do what's "right" in your eyes, and teach their children homosexuality is wrong, and still have homosexual children. The only thing these parents manage to accomplish is distancing themselves from their children.

Ironically, though, while you credit parental upbringing with determining sexual preference, you don't touch on what upbringing really does determine, which is a person's outlook on everything from politics to money to discrimination. Perhaps, VoA, the problem lies not in parents who give their children non-gender specific toys, but parents who teach their children homosexuality is a sin.

As for your cat/woman analogy, I offer this take on answering your questions:
What do you call a man who thinks he's a cat? Dysfunctional.
What do you call a man who thinks he's a woman? Functional.

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Originally posted by Ikki14Reed:
And it's only 'demeaning' because society brainwashes us to believe it is.

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Excellent point. If people like VoA wouldn't demean boys for wearing dresses, it wouldn't be demeaning at all. Just to get everyone thinking: would it be demeaning to dress a little girl up in a baseball uniform?

Still, I'm not in favor of deliberately trying to raise your child to follow the social patterns of the other gender. While it may leave him/her with a better understanding and perspective of everything, it may also leave him/her confused and full of self-loathing. Hearing conflicting messages from your parents and the world around you could be very tough on a person. Gender neutral toys all the way!

OMG. I am from a divorced family. Almost as soon as my parents were divorced my mom was remarried so I have never been without a father figure. And same on my dad's side of the family so when I lived with him there was no absence of parenting. And mental illness refers to some lack of proper function in the brain such as schizophrenia or depression (while those are only two examples the list goes on and on and on and on). In a mentally transgendered person's mind everything works normally. The only difference is in the hypothalmus. It is a different size in men and women because of its make-up. Now if you wish to call transgender people physically deformed I will grant you that but nontheless they are born with the mental pre-supposition to like the same sex. And I find someone who thinks they are a cat humorous. And confusing the gender role of a child is not child abuse unless you are indeed totally ignorant. Because gender role shouldn't exist. It creates taboo and stigmata and thereby gender roles themselves are indeed child abuse.

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what do you call a man who thinks he's a woman?

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Normal.

And what do you mean by the experiments failed? What were they trying to prove and in what way did they fail?

And it's only 'demeaning' because society brainwashes us to believe it is.

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Originally posted by CelticNewAger:
I hope someone here who's very well known doesn't read that...

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What do you call a man who thinks he's a cat?

mentally ill

what do you call a man who thinks he's a woman?

To sleeprocker:

When I made my statement, it is one the presumtion he was talking about corercing the child. After all such a social expriment (rasing a boy to think he's girl) has been tried and it failed.

So to force a kid to wear clothes that only demean him, and not just in regualar way, but in a sexual way is child abuse.

Quote: That sounds like child abuse


And, honey (VoiceofAmerica, aka super silly flagwaver), you just sound like stupid.

Enjoy your silly little existance as an ignorant pig. People aren't made to be gay. Or straight. Different is excellent, and it's all around you.

Pay attention a little.

[QUOTEIt's called a mental illness. Its called shirking your responsiblitys as a man (or woman)] [/QUOTE]

I hope someone here who's very well known doesn't read that...

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Just out of curiousity, what about your family? did you grow up with one parrent, or did you feel that one of the was absent. that can sometimes cause homosexuality.

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I had a life like that. My dad is a doctor who spends half his life in a hospital. I rarely see him. It did nothing to me.

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Originally posted by gayquestionnare:
Then explain transgendered people.

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It's called a mental illness. Its called shirking your responsiblitys as a man (or woman)

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I lived a normal life. I watched Power Rangers and all the normal guy shows as a kid. I played with army men and legos, I even had a bicycle that was shaped like a motorbike. I had all guy friends because girls had coodies. If you knew me as a child there was no indication I would grow up gay.

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Just out of curiousity, what about your family? did you grow up with one parrent, or did you feel that one of the was absent. that can sometimes cause homosexuality.

[qoute]Rar I am going to name my first male child Sue and dress him up in dresses and give him dolls to play with. Different is normal anymore if you take my meaning.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like child abuse.

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But I do know one thing, he was not always gay.

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That's because homosexuality doesn't become evident until adolesence, when one's interest in sex peaks.

Ikki, I can't really imagine that. Maybe that's mostly because I've known you for forever, but I can't picture it.

And why does it matter that the rest of us are into chicks? There are a few exceptions, of course.....

I think the same thing. We're al born bi, but as we grow, we sort of lean one way or the other, or both.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as gay and no such thing as straight. I believe everyone is born bi, and some lean more towards liking women, others towards liking men, and some towards liking both sexes equally.

You know, it's weird cause I have never had feelings towards women, yet the majority of my friends that I hang out with a lot seem to be leaning towards liking women or liking both equally. I feel like I should be more bi... But I wasn't born that way so hey! What can you do?

Then explain transgendered people. They are physically one sex and mentally another. And I don't mean voluntarily transexual people (because yes they do exist). I lived a normal life. I watched Power Rangers and all the normal guy shows as a kid. I played with army men and legos, I even had a bicycle that was shaped like a motorbike. I had all guy friends because girls had coodies. If you knew me as a child there was no indication I would grow up gay. And yet here I stand straight as a rainbow (don't know who originally said that but I am borrowing it). And OMG would you people stop using the word normal. There is no such thing as normal. Normal is just a setting on the washing machine. Rar I am going to name my first male child Sue and dress him up in dresses and give him dolls to play with. Different is normal anymore if you take my meaning.

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That is sooo untrue. His gay friend did not coerce him into homosexuality, he was either always gay and he was trying to hide it or he was always bisexual, which means he is attracted to both genders. And if he was coerced into becoming a homosexual, he is one in a billion.

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First of all I know what bisexual means and secondly he might of been coerced, we will never know. But I do know one thing, he was not always gay.

Just out of curiousity, can any of you "omgzorz homosexuals r wrong!!!@~1" people please point out the distinct "wrong" that gays are doing? In an effort to try and not present a fallacious argument, please do not quote from the Bible....

Thank you. You too, on your last post, the one with the religion thing. Quite clever - I'm impressed.

Nicely put, sleeprocker.