I thought there was a study on this a couple years ago, but i may be not remembering it right, or I'm crazy or something, but anyway, these scientists found that when you look at a straight woman's brain, part of the lobe is the same shape as a gay man's brain. the same went for straight men and lesbian women. that must mean that it's in your genetics somewhere, but i don't know anything about that, so why am i even talking??

the problem with this issue is that some people are born gay(most of them) and some choose to be. so, as soon as someone finds one that choses to become gay they go around acting like all people can change. i have a friend that is just a bi that is fed up with the opposite sex so she turned gay. but that is uncommen and most gays are born with it. I dont know if it's an alliel, mutated gene, or lack/exess of a hormone in the womb, but something makes people gay/strait/bi most scientists that accualy study this issue agree being gay can be inborn. there's a few that can choose and they keep the christians blinded to thinking it can be fixed and not just surpressed. the bible was writen 2000 years ago and thou, a lot of it still aplies, some dosen't. back then a lot of people were openly bi's and choose to have sex with the same sex just because they could. i believe it is only logicle to assume that is what the bible is forbidding not people who natually like the same sex. god wants our happiness, so why would he want gays to torture themselves trying to be strait if they're not? if your strait, try to imagine for a moment this hypothetical situation: 98% of the earths population is gay, you can only have a child by sleeping with the same sex, your strait and everyone hates you before they know you and say to completely change youy way of life to be gay and sleep with the same sex or you are going to hell. how would you feel? do you think you could change?
-evil

By the way...I'm the friend that Esmaelthewanderer was talking about!

Take it from me...I would still be gay if my dad WAS there when I was growing up...I grew up with my mom and 7 other kids. I am the only gay one, and we all shared basically the same experiences in childhood. Actually, my sister's bi, to clarify. My dad lived there, but he was working alot and had college to attend.

Anyway, to make my point...I didn't have a father figure until i was 12, and I'm masculine if not more so than most straight guys, so that theory doesn't apply to me.
Everyone's different.And until we face up to that, then it's all basically futile to argue about it.



It's easy to fear something you don't understand, especially when you've had bad experiences with that something.

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This is screwed up and i hate it.

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Yeah, this is screwed up...

I don't see how it could be a choice. Do people choose to be male or female?

I agree with ICELAND. The majority of the gay men you see are the ones that the media shows you. Most of us (I say "us" because i'm gay)are actually quite masculine. I am, but i've had my moments of pure feminine bliss..lol

This is screwed up and i hate it. everyone is always like "oh its there choice the chose to be gay" i have an aunt whose lesbian so i grew up with an understanding of their situation.
My grandparents (parents of my lesbian aunt) are really religious and at first when my aunt told them they freaked out but know they totally accept and understand her.
A lot of people are totally against gay unions because it's "not how it's supposed to be" but if they have a problem with it then they should just not get married to someone of the same sex.
It's their life, they're the only ones who really know, they're the ones who should make they're own decisions for themselves.
People need to let other people live their lives as long as their not hurting anyone else.

I was talking about insulting, not debating.

As you may (or may not) know, an intelligent debate lacks insults and contains only mature responses.

When that happens, it is using one's knowledge/intelligence, rather than one's insulting skill, to win the debate.

[This message was edited by thedraconic1 on June 30, 2004 at 01:16 AM.]

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It is your enviroment and his enviroment was dating females until this gay friend of his came into his life.

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That is sooo untrue. His gay friend did not coerce him into homosexuality, he was either always gay and he was trying to hide it or he was always bisexual, which means he is attracted to both genders. And if he was coerced into becoming a homosexual, he is one in a billion.

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On the flip side, why would kissing someone of the same sex be so uncomfortable? Do you think it's that it is instinctually, or just because it's taboo, and that you could be a lot more comfortable with it if you just tried it?

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I think, as you said, there might be an "instinctual" aversion to it along the same lines as there is an "instinctual" aversion to incest. It's part cultural, part instinctual. Homosexuality, like incest, is generally avoided in the vast majority of cultures. You see cultures that openly involve it, like the Greeks. However, at least in Greece, it really wasn't passionate love, it was more sexual conveience.

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he didn't act gay

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really a gay comment

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started to act really gay,

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Does no one else find these kinds of statements annoying?

I do not believe that you are born gay. You are born neither. I didn't even know about gay and straight until I was 6 or 7.

"On the flip side, why would kissing someone of the same sex be so uncomfortable? Do you think it's that it is instinctually, or just because it's taboo, and that you could be a lot more comfortable with it if you just tried it?"

-I don't think kissing your friend on the cheek is uncomfortable but I mean like making out. I guess when you are gay you still find members of the opposite sex attractive (im assuming by your replies) so its not a turn off but I'm not attracted to girls at all so I guess that's why? Maybe its slightly instictually also?

-----"""ok you know how people that are straight find it uncomfortable/disgusting to kiss someone on the lips that is of the same sex? well does someone who is gay or lesbian think the same thing about kissing someone of the opposite sex? just something ive wondered."""

I don't think it's uncomfortable at all. Girls are...still aesthetically pleasing, they smell nice, I'd make out with one, even though i'm not sexually attracted to them at all. There would just be no feelings there, it'd be pretty empty and boring.

On the flip side, why would kissing someone of the same sex be so uncomfortable? Do you think it's that it is instinctually, or just because it's taboo, and that you could be a lot more comfortable with it if you just tried it?

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He didn't "turn" gay. He was always gay. He probably just dated females because that's what he thought he was supposed to do and didn't realize he liked males until he began experiencing sexual urges.

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I don't think so. I have known hime a long time and he didn't act gay when he was dating females. He even has a gay friend and he knew he while he was dating females. So, I think that you can "turn' gay. It is your enviroment and his enviroment was dating females until this gay friend of his came into his life.

ok you know how people that are straight find it uncomfortable/disgusting to kiss someone on the lips that is of the same sex? well does someone who is gay or lesbian think the same thing about kissing someone of the opposite sex? just something ive wondered.

Yah you can. Get over it. Accpet it. Can one be born transgender (and thanks to Esmael down below, I don't have to explain again what that is. Finally, someone who is educated!)? Don't lecture me on trans issues. I know (almost) all. ... seriously

Ouch. My best friend is gay. He has an okay life, ups and downs like every other person. Sure, he's had his bad days, but haven't we all? He hasn't been abused, and his mum's a *****, but she's a Leo. An ex-friend of mine was transgender (which is being the opposite gender in mind and body), and she (being physically a girl) had a wonderful life. Hell, her parents were rich as anything, and she had anything she wanted. When it comes to genetics vs. learning, I choose both, but in this case, it's more genetics, but most people are so secure in their gender-identity and their sexual-orientation, that they usually don't think that there's another one.

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and later on became attracted to the same sex

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Well, in that situation, you have three choises to choose from, it's either: bisexuality, puberty or denial.

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My friends little brother, was like 7 when he first started to act really gay, saying he wants to be a girl, he'd make lists of guys he likes, wear his moms clothes, play with dolls etc.

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That would be considered transgender, not gay.

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ok, would someone that is gay or lesbian want to be the opposite sex?

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Again, that's transgender, not gay.

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He dated girls before he turned gay

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On a TV show I saw, this guy married a woman, f*cked her and had kids and was transgender. It's called denial. We all go through it.

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But finally realizing that you can't keep up the lie, and that you are gay, and will never be straight, is what causes some to finally admit they are, at whatever age.

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I liked how you said that, so true.

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If you have a problem with opinions that are not your own, you should keep them to yourself

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Do you know why this site was made? Let me think for a moment. Uh... to debate! Let him debate and deal with it.

lmao one day at school this guy i know totally random goes, "i wish i had man-boobs so i could sit there and play with them" and i really dont understand plus thats sort of gross...i mean...im a girl and i dont do that. it really isnt that entertaining. but most guys that mention what it would be like to be a girl mention what it would be like to have breasts...just a strange random thought

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I'd flash people sooooo much.

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If I had a penis I would do the exact same thing.

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He dated girls before he turned gay. So,No, I don't think you can be born gay.

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He didn't "turn" gay. He was always gay. He probably just dated females because that's what he thought he was supposed to do and didn't realize he liked males until he began experiencing sexual urges.


Read This
And this.

Finding sites to support your argument is what anyone does. It is what you would do. If you have a problem with opinions that are not your own, you should keep them to yourself, as others may have a problem with yours as well. They are being quiet for your sake at the moment so be quiet for mine.

-----"""iceland-are u gay? (not meant to be offensive). I'm just wondering because you gave that reference about being in a girls body...but then you made the "jugs" comment which isn't really a gay comment if you know what i mean.
what do u think is the latest u can turn gay? do u think someone who is like 40 can become gay or do u think that they had always had those tendencies?"""

Yes, I'm gay. No offense taken. But just because I said I'd be willing to spend a week in a girls body does not mean anything. Didn't you read the part before, in which I said "hell no" to being a girl? Arg. Gay men do not want to be women. Haha, you think I'm not gay just because I used the word jugs? So many gay guys are just like straight guys. You just don't see us because you assume we're straight.

In response to the second part of your post, I don't think you can "turn" gay at all. Most gay guys realize they are gay the first time they get sexual feelings, real, h0rny, teenage feelings, not just elementary school crushes. For those of you who don't know what I mean, basically most guys find out they are gay when they start getting erecti0ns when they think about guys. This happens from age 12 to age 15, when puberty hits. That is by far the most common thing any gay guy will tell you if you ask when they "turned" (actually, they just realized they were) gay.

However, many gay people just pretend they are straight, dating like straight people, because it's easier, they are afraid, or they don't want to admit it to themselves, they think if they date members of the opposite sex they will become straight. Then, in college, or when they're married, or later, they realize they can't pretend to be straight anymore, and finally admit it, to others or to themselves, that they are gay.

No one goes 40 years completely straight and suddenly turns into a homosexual. But finally realizing that you can't keep up the lie, and that you are gay, and will never be straight, is what causes some to finally admit they are, at whatever age. Now, this happens in highschool or college. They always were, they just pretended to be something else. Even if they pretended it for 40 years.