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kg
Registered: April 18, 2002
Posts: 605
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quote:
drugs are bad anyways so what does it matter?

that's your argument? i can't believe that you just posted up 2000 words and then have such an insufferably indifferent attitude.

drugs = bad. thanks for the insight ms. reagan.
Registered: March 06, 2003
Posts: 195
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Drugs and Terrorism--they're not the same thing.
Word Count: 632

By Patrick Stephens

During last Sunday’s Superbowl, the President’s office of National Drug Control Policy aired the first two commercials of a new ad campaign linking drug use with terrorism. The ads, aimed at teenagers, are meant to capitalize on the kids’ growing sense of political awareness. Their message is simple: If you buy drugs, you might be financing terrorists.

But as is often the case, the simple message masks a more complicated reality. The administration acknowledges that teenage potheads aren’t terrorists. But the ad campaign is pretty clear when it comes to what those little tokers are doing: they’re helping to finance terrorism, kill judges, murder families, and torture people.

Sound a little extreme? It is. One television ad, titled “I Helped,” features a series of teenage faces reciting a litany of their crimes, “I helped kill a judge,” “I helped kill policemen,” and, of course, “I helped blow up buildings.”

These confessions are interspersed with the kids commenting, “I was just having fun.” and, “My life, my body.” The audience is clearly supposed to get the message that drugs are not good clean fun, and that they affect more than just your life and your body-because buying drugs supports terrorism.

But so does buying gasoline.

Osama bin Laden and his terrorist organization Al Qaida-you know, the people who actually do blow up buildings-are heavily financed by oil revenue, from the donations of oil rich Arabs, and from bin Laden’s personal fortune. Are the kids who drive to the mall supporting terrorism?

The problem with these ads is not that they’re anti-drug, the problem is that they’re absurd. Mom and her SUV are doing just as much to support terrorism as the local weed dealer, and there’s an obvious refutation of the ads’ message. If buying drugs supports international terrorism, then just buy local. After all, bin Laden and his cronies don’t make any money from the “kind bud” growing in the basement.

Even worse, the government’s ads ignore the real reason that drug money supports terrorism: Drugs are illegal. You can buy a six-pack of beer from a safe, well-lit, corner store. But you can’t buy your pot there. The ads aren’t suggesting that last night’s kegger helped mobilize the Basque separatist movement. It’s not like a picking up a pack of smokes and couple of 40’s means putting money into the pockets of Afghani poppy farmers. (That’s the Federal Government’s job; the U.S. gave $43 million to help support Afghani poppy farmers just last May.) It’s illegal drugs that the administration is claiming helps terrorism, not alcohol, nicotine, Valium, caffeine, or Prozac.

Making drugs illegal creates a black market. Reputable businesses don’t deal in drugs, only criminals do. Buyers can’t get warranties or refunds, and black markets raise prices. They raise prices so much, in fact, that people are willing to kill each other. You just don’t see that happening with goods that are legal, like chocolate, for example. But if the government made chocolate illegal, then buying a candy bar would probably “support terrorism.” That’s the nature of a black market.

All in all, these ads just make things worse. Teenagers are young, and they might even be stoned, but they’re not stupid. And we shouldn’t treat them as if they are. They’ll see through this propaganda, they’ll recognize that the emperor has no clothes, and they’ll lose respect for the whole anti-drug message.

We need to teach our children to be responsible-but we won’t succeed if we treat them like fools. Drugs, both legal and illegal, can be dangerous. But drug use is just nowhere near as bad as killing judges, murdering policemen, and blowing up buildings. We’re at war with the terrorists who do those things. Are we at war with our children as well?



and the other....
[CAPITALISM MAGAZINE.COM]Do you remember those $3.5 million government ads that ran during the Super Bowl -- the ones linking drug use with terrorism?
"Timmy," a somber-looking teenager, stared at the camera and said: "I killed mothers. I killed fathers. I killed grandmas. I killed grandpas. I killed sons. I killed daughters. I killed firemen. I killed policemen." A stark, guilt-laden message from the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy flashed during a brief pause: "DRUG MONEY SUPPORTS TERRORISM. IF YOU BUY DRUGS, YOU MIGHT, TOO."

Then, Timmy added: "Technically, I didn't kill these people. I just kind of helped."

Well, now it's the finger-wagging government's turn to 'fess up to its own indirect role in funding terrorism -- through sky-high cigarette taxes. Let me explain.

This week, the alleged ringleader of an organized-crime cell based in Charlotte, N.C., will go on trial for providing cash and military-style technology to Hezbollah. This is the Lebanese-based guerrilla group designated a terrorist organization by the State Department in 1997. It has been tied to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network and to the 1983 Marine barracks truck bombing in Beirut, which killed 241 American servicemen.

Federal prosecutors say that Mohammad Youssef Hammoud, his brothers and more than a dozen others collaborated in a major cigarette smuggling, money laundering and immigration fraud business to support Hezbollah activities abroad. The ring members purchased cheap cigarettes in Charlotte, where the tobacco tax is just five cents a pack, then hauled them to high-tax Michigan, which raised tobacco taxes from 25 cents a pack to 75 cents in 1994. Hammoud's operation is believed to have reaped millions of dollars of profit over a four-year period.

According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the FBI says the men used the money to buy "night vision goggles; cameras and scopes; surveying equipment; global positioning systems; mine and metal detection equipment; video equipment; advanced aircraft analysis and design software; laptop computers; stun guns; radios; mining, drilling and blasting equipment; radars; ultrasonic dog repellers; (and) laser range finders."

Suspected cell members reportedly owned mounds of terrorist propaganda, including a video with Hezbollah guerrillas in suicide bombing gear listening to a leader chant: "We swear by the blood and the scattered body parts of our children and the tortures of our prisoners that we will answer the call and will continue to detonate ourselves to cause the earth to shake under the feet of our enemy, America and Israel."

The indictment of one of the ring members says he traveled to Lebanon three years ago and delivered a $3,500 payment to a Hezbollah military commander.

If not for taxaholic bureaucrats, this suspected terrorist operation wouldn't have gotten off the ground. States addicted to nicotine-stained revenue are all too happy to participate in the sanctimonious charade of condemning the vice while pocketing a chunk of the profits. But those who advocate punitive tobacco taxes to reduce smoking and "protect kids" continue to ignore the connection between sin taxes and illegal sales. Every state along the East Coast that has slapped astronomical and regressive taxes on tobacco has been invaded by increasingly savvy and organized smugglers.

It's the same story in Canada and Sweden, where even the socialists have finally figured out that they should give up on their quasi-prohibitionist experiment and cut tobacco tax rates to put smugglers out of business.

In New York, which recently imposed the highest tobacco tax in the nation ($1.50 a pack), police are bracing for an inevitable bootlegging bonanza. Yet, New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg wants to tack on another $1.50 tax to cigarettes. That's sure to win him brownie points with the men and women in blue -- many of them smokers themselves -- who will now have to shoulder the added burden of chasing down droves of organized smuggling rings from low-taxing neighbor states, military bases, Indian reservations, Internet retailers and Mexican operatives. And possibly more Middle East terrorists.

The feds have used taxpayer funds to draw a tenuous link between drug abuse and terrorism. But the link between high tobacco taxes and terrorist funding is far stronger. Sure, greedy state and federal lawmakers didn't directly fund Hezbollah terrorist killers.

As "Timmy" put it so well, they "just kind of helped."


from the website itself...
Drugs and Terror: Understanding the Link and the Impact on America
"It's so important for Americans to know that the traffic in drugs finances the work of terror, sustaining terrorists, that terrorists use drug profits to fund their cells to commit acts of murder. If you quit drugs, you join the fight against terror in America."


President George W. Bush

There is an undeniable link between acts of terror and illicit drugs. Law enforcement officials around the world have long recognized this close connection, but a changing world and recent events have made this link more relevant in the daily lives of all Americans. The bottom line is simple: terror and drug groups are linked in a mutually-beneficial relationship by money, tactics, geography and politics. Americans must understand that our individual choices about illicit drug use have the power to support or undermine our nation's war on terrorism.

Drugs form an important part of the financial infrastructure of terror networks. Twelve of the 28 terror organizations identified by the U.S. Department of State in October 2001 traffic in drugs. Drug income is the primary source of revenue for many of the more powerful international terrorist groups. The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) receives about $300 million from drug sales annually. The United Self Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC) relies on the illegal drug trade for 40-70 percent of its income. Peru's Shining Path is more dependent on drug money than ever before. And the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which provided safe haven to Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network, used revenues from opium and heroin to stay in power. In 2000, Afghanistan was responsible for more than 70 percent of the world's opium trade, resulting in significant income to the Taliban.

Drug traffickers and terrorists use similar methods to achieve their criminal ends. Most importantly, they share a common disregard for human life. Many drug trafficking organizations engage in acts that most people would consider terrorist in nature. These include gruesome public killing of innocents, large-scale bombings intended to intimidate government, kidnapping and torture. These organizations prey on young people both to grow their ranks and to keep their illegitimate businesses operating. Money laundering, arms-for-drugs exchanges and use of phony documents are common among terrorist and drug groups.

Drug traffickers and terrorist organizations both attack the underpinnings of legitimate government institutions to achieve their objectives, or enjoy the protection of governments that condone terror or drug trafficking. Drug traffickers and terror groups are both drawn to regions where central government authority is weak. If a terror group already controls a region and has excluded or neutralized legitimate government institutions, drug production only requires a business deal.

The growing link between terrorists and the drug trade contributes to an increased threat to America. Drug and terrorist organizations are taking advantage of the global economy to expand the scope, scale and reach of their activities and, as a result, their ability to harm American citizens and to damage U.S. interests is dramatically expanding. As state sponsors for their activities become scarce, terrorists are increasingly dependent on drug financing. The combined force of their alliance poses an enhanced threat to regional stability, American national security and the future of our country's youth.

Parents, educators, faith and community leaders recognize that youth drug use is a serious issue in this country, and they work tirelessly to educate children about the dangers of substance abuse. Today there is a new reason to continue this important effort: the illegal drug trade is linked to the support of terror groups across the globe. Buying and using illegal drugs is not a victimless crime-it has negative consequences that can touch the lives of people around the world.

September 11th has brought the complex and horrific reality of terrorism into the lives of all Americans. Many are asking, "How did this happen?" and "What can I do?" The link between terror and drugs is an important part of the puzzle, as is the recognition that individual decisions about using drugs have real-world consequences.


drugs are bad anyways so what does it matter?
kg
Registered: April 18, 2002
Posts: 605
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well, all of the evidence is really just extrapolation, but i imagine that it wouldn't be too difficult to form a money trail from a cocaine purchase to columbia, or from many heroin purchases pre-2001 to afghanistan (although not necessarily to al queda). however, the relative amount that goes back to "funding" terrorists would be really insignificant, especially compared to the oil money and the direct weaponization of said groups by deliberate government action.

furthermore, the pluarlity of drug economics circle within mafia and like groups - and while they are hardly good role models, i don't really see them bombing tourist attractions and the like.

oil money supports a threat of a bomb at the superbowl. drug money supports the option of picking up a prostitute at the superbowl. big difference (although i guess not to john walters).
Picture of geminiangel521
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 6970
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Where's the -real- proof that purchasing illegal drugs supports terrorism?
Registered: April 03, 2002
Posts: 1141
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However, theyu're wasting millions of dollars on a useless ad campaign that is ineffective, and has been shown to be such repeatedly. Prohibition doesnt work, we were supposed to have learned that in the 20s.
Picture of uptowngirl904
Registered: December 13, 2002
Posts: 3964
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fwegan--if you think that's bad, they've actually released the updated version, of "when you ride alone, you ride with bin laden". i don't know who started those, but they had one up to remind us to buy parking permits at school. (you need three people to even try and get one, so no one is actually riding alone.)

as for the drugs...technically, buying a cd can help some singer buy drugs, which now helps terrorism, so should we not buy music?

the idea behind the ad, is to "kill two birds with one stone". (no, i don't advocate throwing rocks at birds.) by doing that, they can get the anti-drug campaign, and the anti-terrorism commercial, all in one, and have money left over.
Picture of geminiangel521
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 6970
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Uhm.. no?
Picture of sinope
Registered: August 05, 2002
Posts: 679
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my last post here dissapeared.
is there a higher power out there that is mad.
that sucks, and i hate you people.
Registered: April 03, 2002
Posts: 95
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you right, this is some Govornment inspired B.S, to make G. Bush look like he's actually doing something positive about Terrorism.
Come on now, We all know were the drugs come from, But The government supports many of the countries that are supposedly feeding us these narcotics.
Many middle eastern countries, Afgahnastan and Palastine included, were reciveing Funding from the CIA, to train troops in guerrilla warfare, until very recently.
Now G.W wants to drop a bomb on them, start a war.
And he uses mindless propaganda, to have mindless people follow and support him.
Registered: April 03, 2002
Posts: 95
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you right, this is some Govornment inspired B.S, to make G. Bush look like he's actually doing something positive about Terrorism.
Come on now, We all know were the drugs come from, But The government supports many of the countries that are supposedly feeding us these narcotics.
Many countries, Afgahnastan and Palastine included, were reciveing Funding from the CIA, to train troops in guerrilla warfare, until very recently.
Now G.W wants to drop a bomb on them, start a war.
And he uses mindless propaganda, to have mindless people follow and support him.
Registered: August 20, 2002
Posts: 10
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Here are some even more convenient and efficient ways to fund global terrorism-

Buy gasoline

Use gas-derived electricity

But products from major weapons manufactures such as Boeing, IBM, Weirhauser, The US Government or Israel

Vote for almost all republican candidates

Vote for most democratic candidates

Last but not least, PAY YOUR TAXES



[I think there was some dumb old guy, Henry David somethingoranother or something like that that had a little bit to say about that last one there... He might even have written something about it...]


sam
Registered: July 15, 2002
Posts: 36
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Hey, the Israeli **** is getting personal. I'm a Jew, and I don't like you dissing on my people anymore than you do. You can say what you want but you don't understand the half of it, and how could you...you're not Jewish or Palestinian. We don't expect you to understand, but we do expect you to not try to. Because you can't, and you never will, you have to be part of the conflict to know what the **** is going on. So if you're not Jewish or Palestinian, don't post anything about our leaders. We have a problem with eachother, like you guys do with Afghanistan right now. You're fighting them, we're fighting the Palestinians. You don't see me saying "Bush is an opressive *******...murdering innocent Afghans." No. I'm not that stupid. I know that my country (I'm an American citizen, but as a Jew, Israel is my homeland) is doing what they need to do in Afghanistan. And I know that my homeland of Israel is doing what they need to do in Palestine. Let's cut the **** and don't say things about my government.
Picture of fwegan
Registered: October 13, 2001
Posts: 482
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Global Exchange, while it's pretty dang liberal, is also a very responsible non-profit humanitarian group based in San Francisco. They do excellent work, like sending delegates all over the world to talk to laborers about factory conditions and really important stuff like that. They're also one of the groups that are really taking the lead in the fair trade movement.

www.GlobalExchange.org


Love, Jenny
Picture of fwegan
Registered: October 13, 2001
Posts: 482
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This is Global Exchange's 6th of the Top Ten Reasons to Oppose US Military Aid to Colombia:


quote:
US Aid Supports Terrorism in Colombia

According to the Colombian Commission of Jurists, 75 percent of political killings are committed by right-wing paramilitaries such as the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)--a group included on the US State Department's terrorist organizations list, along with both guerrilla groups. In Colombia the line between the US-supported military and paramilitary groups is hazy. Reports by Human Rights Watch show that one-half of Colombian military battalions have connections to the paramilitaries. The US State Department reports that "members of the security forces sometimes illegally collaborated with paramilitary forces."


If you ask me, I'd say the War on Drugs is a big sham. (Ask me why, I'll tell you. C'mon, ask.)


Love, Jenny
Pie
Picture of Pie
Registered: July 09, 2002
Posts: 313
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I can't seem to find anything there called "WE'VE GOT THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO CLICK HERE TO LISTEN", so why don't ya make a direct link to it, or post the gist of it here, and I'll make my comments. Wot wot?
Also-if you are refering to the gun control wachamahoozit, then looky here-gun control cannot stop this. Even if these terrorist @sses came here to buy guns, ya don't see them busting some Green Beret but with a Winchester 30/30, do ya? So, that leaves it that they come here for cheaply made black market weapons, which are already illegal to purchase, so why the blue hell would gun control make a difference over whether or not they got their precious AKs?
Registered: July 08, 2002
Posts: 126
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Believe it or not he's right. If you go to www.m2ktalk.com and click on listen you will find out the truth about the terrorist attack.
Registered: April 03, 2002
Posts: 1141
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Picture of fwegan
Registered: October 13, 2001
Posts: 482
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I can't even concentrate on the subject to make a logical argument, but AAAUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH those ads are ridiculous propoganda I hate it I hate it I HATE IT!

(Maybe now that I've gotten some of that out of my system I can make that logical argument in a few days...)

Reminds me of something the government put out during WWII...
Pie
Picture of Pie
Registered: July 09, 2002
Posts: 313
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Flow-do you have any idea about what you just spat out in those first couple of lines? Or are you just repeating to us what the Brady Bunch fed you on a spoon? I'll guess the latter.

My immediate assumption after ingesting these lines is that you'd been overdosing on crack, and needed to get it out. Then I thought that maybe you were referring to the rhetoric "gun show loophole", a pile of bull that rises to the upper stratosphere. To put you mind at ease on this topic, here ya go-dispels your myths quite nicely, hmm?
The "Gun show loophole"

Then I stumbled upon the conclusion that you actually thought that the average Joe terrorist would take a plane to the good 'ol US of A to buy a 5 round bolt action Ruger when he could pick up an AK-47/74 from the local food dealer back in Afghanniestan. You make complete sense, Flow.

I'll close by pointing out that your opinion makes no sense whatsoever, I beg you to get a day job. G'night.
Registered: April 03, 2002
Posts: 1141
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I'm with flow as far as most of his points, but lack of gun control certainly doesn't foster terrorism, it is another facet of true liberty, the right to defend yourself and not be forced to rely on the police or millitary. Piece now !
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