Let me start off with a few facts about myself.

1) I have researched this. Trust me. Everything I present you with as a fact is indeed a fact.
2) I am a Christian. Hurrah.
3) I am straight.


Shall we begin? We shall.

Humans are not the only creatures that are homosexuals. In fact, the more it is researched, the more it is realized that we are far from being alone.

Bruce Bagemihl's "Biological Exuberance," published in 1999, documents homosexual behavior in more than 450 animal species. The list includes grizzly bears, gorillas, flamingos, owls and even several species of salmon. For Goodness sakes, bees have be document to have "life partners" rather than mates.

Take Wendell and Cass, two penguins at the New York Aquarium in Coney Island, for instance. They are two males whose bond has survived longer than most of the straight relationships in the Aquarium and the wild. They were even given an egg by scientists, and they tended to it as though they were a male and female couple, thrilled at the aspect of raising a child.


I know "Bible Thumpers" will tell you that these are animals and they want no part in their activities. Well then, we should stop all forms of creation rather quickly because they pretty much showed the world how that was done long before we were here. And as for the "they are animal's, they don't know any better" theory, if they have no reasoning and no sould to speak of (according to your book, dears) then why would God make them do such things?


Now, anyone who continues to tell gay's that they are destined to hell, I ask you, may I please borrow the revised copy of the Bible that someone gave you in which God came down unto the people and said "You, that whole thing about not judging people? I was just playin'. And remember that whole love the sinner hate the sin concept? Yeah, whatever, I was in a weird mood that day. Hate 'em both. Speaking of which, about all that love and goodness and being kind crap? Screw it, that was just to impress some chick."

Here we go again...

What is normal?
There is the scientific definition, and then there is the moral "normal."
Does being a certain way make it "normal"?
A man was born left handed...that's normal for him...but scientifically that is the less dominant trait and therefore the majority of people are right handed. To society he is abnormal, but you could also say he is considered normal.

I think homosexuality is natural, but not normal. I don't think abnormal means "weird"; I think it means that you don't fit into the majority.

Since it has been scientifically proven that someone is born gay, this means that there is some sort of chemical inbalance ( not enough research done yet...that's a whole other discussion). Chemical inbalances are obviously not normal. Are mentally ill people normal? Most would say no, and they are right, but they say it for the wrong reason. Chemical inbalances aren't "weird" or "strange"...they're abnormal.

Definitions and interpretations can mean all the difference.

I yi yi...

That's the thing. Normal is whatever anyone conforms to in society. If there was a box of blue marbles, one red marble would be abnormal, and the blue would be more normal. Granted, they are loosely defined words yes, but the basics still stand firmly.

lol what the hell is the difference? It's not my fault if you interpreted my use of abnormal to be the more commonly-used, less-intelligent definition described as something being wrong or weird in society. I'm using the defintion from Bernstein's Introduction to Psychology (5th Ed.)... a scholarly book is far better than dictionary.com.

It's not my fault if everyone else takes the use of abnormal the uneducated way. It is deviating from the norms of society. MY DEFINITION OF ABNORMAL IS ABNORMAL IN THIS BOARD. HOWEVER, IT IS STILL RIGHT!!!!!!

Oh boy. And I thought I was the grammar police. Here comes yogore with semantics!

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I'm not saying anything is wrong with these abnormalities, but that is just the factual definition of abnormality on paper.

There's something to be said for using the common definition of the term. Abnormal is equated with something wrong in most minds so a different use is very often confused.

I went to dicitonary.com and got the definition of abnormal:

quote:

deviating from the normal or average; especially : departing from the usual or accepted standards of social behavior

The question then becomes where to draw the line for "usual" or "accepted standard" because these are not things marked by majority. Normal is too subjuntive to be defined as a simple majority.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with these abnormalities, but that is just the factual definition of abnormality on paper.

quote:

Originally posted by yogore:

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The psychological definition of normality is conforming to the social norms of one's society. Abnormality is a deviation from these norms. Homosexuality is clearly a minority, hence abnormal in today's world where everyone is judged based on their lifestyle.

What you are doing is saying that the majority makes something normal. In that statement you automatically assume that the minority is abnormal. When you say all minorities are abnormal, you are saying:
People who are left handed are abnormal.
Vegetarians are abnormal.
Democrats in congress are abnormal.

Social customs don't always measure what is normal, but rather you are measuring what the majority does. It's not the same thing.

That's exactly what I'm saying. People who are left-handed are abnormal, vegetarians are abnormal, democrats in congress technically would be abnormal. That is the PSYCHOLOGICAL defintion of normality, not my own. Abnormal means deviating from the norms of a society. If you were to take an entire group of people who were mostly vegetarians, the two or three meat-eaters would be considered abnormal.

OH, Okay then.

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I don't think you have to worry about arguing with her.

It's not your concern. We'll see when she comes back, because those are just your assumptions.

Hmm... I thought she wasn't going for what is considered normal, like okay-normal, just what is popular or general yogore, so I don't think you have to worry about arguing with her.

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Vegetarians are abnormal.

Hehe, you got that right.

According to society, nonconformists are abnormal. That's how it is. Whether that assumption is right or wrong, however, is your call. Society will never accept that which goes contrary to the current social mores. The only thing to do is change what is accepted by society. Make homosexuality socially acceptable, and it will become normal. As to how you'd ever get society to completely accept homosexuality, well, good luck on that.

quote:

The psychological definition of normality is conforming to the social norms of one's society. Abnormality is a deviation from these norms. Homosexuality is clearly a minority, hence abnormal in today's world where everyone is judged based on their lifestyle.

What you are doing is saying that the majority makes something normal. In that statement you automatically assume that the minority is abnormal. When you say all minorities are abnormal, you are saying:
People who are left handed are abnormal.
Vegetarians are abnormal.
Democrats in congress are abnormal.

Social customs don't always measure what is normal, but rather you are measuring what the majority does. It's not the same thing.

I suppose that makes sense.

Being gay is not normal. I have nothing against it, nor do I think homosexuals are "weird" (I have a few gay friends). Nor do I think homosexuals are "destined to hell." The psychological definition of normality is conforming to the social norms of one's society. Abnormality is a deviation from these norms. Homosexuality is clearly a minority, hence abnormal in today's world where everyone is judged based on their lifestyle.

I don't think it is unnatural either. It is a biological interaction between two living organisms. As far as I can see, it's as natural as a heterosexual relationship.

Also, if you are going to "research" a topic about human relationships, get it from a book about humans. The statistical anomalies of homosexual relations between other animals is entirely irrelevent. Humans are much more complex creatures than honey bees. Besides humans for example, dolphins are the only other documented organism that engage in sex just for pleasure. Most of these homosexual behaviors between animals have been attributed to hormonal fluctuations anyway.

The "life partners" with the penguins is a different story. I think it entirely possible for larger animals to form close relationships or friendships with others.
The "life partners" with the bees however is a biological process necessary for the bees. It is not a friendship as you imply, at least from a scientific standpoint. Several species of Apoideans (bees), within their own colony travel in groups or pairs for protection, more efficient food finding methods, or in order to scout a new location for a nest. An insect's life is truly too short for them to do anything more than fulfill their biological purpose. Also, insects lack the anatomical processes necessary to engage in homosexual relations with another. Their makeup is too simplified.

Riiiight..

tuesdya valentine.... thanks a lot i always wanted to know which of th species exhibit homosexuality.....

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there are many therapies for homosexuals that want to change....

And they don't work. Repression helps noone and the APA has documented cases where these proceedures end up hurting the people by causing emotional trauma.

not to mention, all reports of these therapies are poorly documented and never followed up on. The statistics say the number of people who "completed the program" but does not say how long it was before they returned to homosexual partnerships.

Jesus Christ do some research.

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This is very true God will forgive you of you homosexuality.. If you first admit your sin to God and try to change your ways.....God doesnt just assume that you are sorry for your actions unless thats how you truly feel deep down in your heart....

You don't know that. for all we know God may not even consider it a sin. GOd cannot be nearly as strict as he is made out to be, however or else there would be noone in heaven. Are you 100% sorry for every mean comment you made or every lustful thought? I thought not.