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Yes, but it was obvious you were referring to me.

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I honestly did not intend to point any single person out. You didn't even post the quote I was responding to. My response was directed to pro-choicers in general. I was trying to say that at the point of pregnancy, it is possible for a woman (especially a young one) to feel desperate and feel that killing the child is the best option. I do not agree with that. Then, I wanted to point out that once the baby is born, pretty much every mother wouldn't have the heart to not love the child. So, my message was intended to answer the bumper sticker. At desperate times, people make desperate decisions, so the government should help and narrow down the choices for them.

Yes, but it was obvious you were referring to me.

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Bogey, if you're gonna talk about someone, say their name instead of just *****ing about it like a schoolgirl, because she's not stupid.

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Celtic, unfortunately there are more than a handful of people that think that way - I did not want to waste my time and write everybody's name who thinks that way. Thus, I believe the use of the words "Some people" was sufficient enough. I do not see what the problem is here.

Bogey, if you're gonna talk about someone, say their name instead of just *****ing about it like a schoolgirl, because she's not stupid.

" 'If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?' "

Easily. Some people are too selfish or unknowledgeable that they think because the human inside of them doesn't "look human", that it is not human and can be killed. But, once the baby is born, you can almost trust anybody to not kill it because, as you know, it "looks more human." So, that bumper sticker moved me in know way.

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Aren't you glad your mother was pro-life?

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My mother is pro-choice.

I like this button I saw, so I am quoting it here:
"If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?"

Also, Nashira, you're mother choosing to have you and give you up for adoption is a choice. She had the choice of aborting you or having you, and she choose to have you. If that isn't choice right there, I don't know what is.

That's what Pro-choice is all about. The right to CHOOSE.

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Originally posted by gooberflinch:
is homocide. Any other thoughts on this? I would love to hear them. However, killing human life, when the baby has no say in it, is mass murder; it's the holocaust of our time.

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PRO LIFE!

I totally agree. When I was born, my mom was 16 and my "dad" freaked out and left her, never to be seen again. She could have very easily had an abortion and her life would have been sooo much easier for her, but she did the right thing and had the kid (thats me) and gave her up for adoption. I was adopted by a loving family at six weeks and have had an awesome life and plan to impact the world. If she had done the selfish thing and had the abortion, I wouldn't be here today. Take it from one who knows. Abortion is murder. Murder is wrong. Abortion is wrong. It's a child, not a choice. Aren't you glad your mother was pro-life?

http://roevwade.tripod.com/

i think it should be the mother's choice if she is to have an abortion or not. say its a +30 woman is pregnant and they do an amniocentesis on the woman/child and they find out the child has down syndrome or another disability where the child needs extra care for life, ect, i think that that woman should decide if she can give that child the extra care that it needs at her age or not and then she should be given the choice to have an abortion or not. but if people abuse the privelage, i don't think its right. for example, if a 15 year old girl continues to get pregnant and have abortions, i think thats wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

I personally believe life starts at the embrio. So yes, abortion is homoside. When I'm older I've made the decision to not have kids, but to adopt. I don't care who's genes they have, even if it was hilter's! All i want to do is give a kid a loving mom when i'm older. maybe i could start my own political party...the pro-adoptionists! anyways, you can't deny that a beating heart isn't living.

"A lot of drug addicted women give birth. Babies are born addicted to drugs. Having an abotion would be less cruel."

I beg your pardon but I don't think that having an abortion would be less cruel. Not all babies born to drug addicted mothers are born with birth defects or addicted to drugs. And if you want to go as far as to say that then you should also say that if you have any diseases like Cancer that can run in the family then the baby should be aborted because he/she may develop it, too. Or if the mother or father has AIDS. But still there is not a 100% chance that the baby will have any of that. And even if the baby does have a disease then yes there are some people out there who would take a baby that has diseases...it happens all the time. Maybe not as often as a healthy baby being adopted but yes some people do that.

"If you can't take care of a baby, I think it is better to have an abortion than to give it up for adoption, where you don't know what will happen to it."

Well if you can't take care of the baby, why not give it up for adoption? It will not only give someone else a chance at raising a kid but it will also give your baby a chance at life; something that he/she would not get if had an abortion. I think abortions are murder. They are the same thing. If someone kills someone on the street they get punished for it in some way {most of the time}, why can't they do that if an unborn child gets "murdered?" Murderers get a trial to decide whether they are guilty or innocent and to decide whether they should live or die, where is the trial for the baby so that they can have a say-so in it, after all it is their life.

You can always give the baby to a close family member to raise it or put it up for adoption. Babies almost never go to foster homes because people want to adopt younger children. Abortions can only be preformed after the baby has developed a heart. So you arent just getting rid of it. You are murdering your own child. I find that most guys are pro-choice. Only because if they got a girl pregnant they wouldnt want the resposibility. As for the ladies...KEEP YOUR LEGS CLOSED! I have spoken to rape victims who have given birth, they say that they would never have gotten an abortion even though they were unwillingly pregnant.

Let's just say it is a life.
Isn't it more selfish to give birth to a baby swhen you're unfit, just because you'll feel guilty for having an abortion?
A lot of drug-addicted women give birth. Babies are born addicted to drugs. Having an abortion would be less cruel. If you give birth to a baby you can't take care of, or who dies, there's a 100% chance he's alive and feeling it, while it's argueable in case of abortion.

Anti-choicers often spout "so send the baby off to abortion". Yeah, people are just lining up to adopt, espeacailly kids that aren't of their race/religon/have diseases/conditions/are older than a few weeks. The sad thing is, most people only love a kid if it's of their own genes; if they're unable to give birth, they'll take out the sperm, the eggs, find a different mother! anything just to have the genes looking back at them in their arms
If you can't take care of a baby, I think it's better to have an abortion than give it up for adoption, where you don't know what will happen to it.
This is all after using condoms, of course.

1/2 wants to decrease size & argue with xia & luvabug on my iq and animals' place, but other 1/2 knows that'd just make me as shallow and ignorant as they.
Wish to debate, or whatever the he11 you think you're doing, email me.
BECAUSE THIS HERE'S A TOPIC ON ABORTION! k
Faula420@earthlink.net

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But, since there are uncertainties on when life begins, don't you think we should give the benefit of the doubt to life? What if we don't know if it's alive - should we take the chance in killing it to make our lives easier? Even if it has the slightest amount of having human life, shouldn't we give the child the benfit of the doubt that it is living? I believe that life is too important to take such a risk.

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Bogey, I completly agree with you 100%.

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a zygote is not a human.

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Yes, it is.

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Do not bother trying to debate with them. Half of them have never taken a Biology class, and those who have obviously did not listen when it came to the reproduction chapters.

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The Reproductive chapters were the chapters I paid the most attention in.

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Besides, these "pro-lifers" are too hellbent on their own stance to even consider the "pro-choice" side.

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I have taken into deep consideration the pro-choice side, as I have told you before. If you haven't done so already, why don't you stop critizing and maybe look into some pro-life views. If we're hellbent, it must be for a reason.

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Not a solid definition?? I gave my sources. It's all from dictionary.com.

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You never know, dictionary.com could be a pro-choice biased site

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so, if abortion is murder and deathpenalty is murder is it murderous of you to eat eggs, poultry, VEAL...

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Alright the main thing that plays a huge factor in your abortion stance is when you belive that human life ocurrs. However, whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, you must admit that if you are on death-row, it means you have been born and you are in fact human. So how is the death penalty not murder? You are killing a human being. Case closed.
Eggs, poultry, and veal are different. They're not human and they were created for humans to eat.

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Right. How about you go back to school for a couple of years, start thinking for a change, and maybe learn some English and reading comprehension skills, and then come back here. That way you might be able to make a nearly valid point instead of being blatantly out of it.

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Xia, for once, I praise you.

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no offense but can ya'll stop arguing about it?

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YN was created for teens to argue. Deal with it.

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I have no stance on abortion, so do not even try to go there with me.

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Well I don't know how the rest of you feel, but if she doesn't feel she has a stance on the issue, why should she even be posting about it? If she's not going to debate, she has no right to critique the rest of us.

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1st, its Wind dancer & I don't do drugs.

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She likes to come up with little names for people that irritate her, she thinks it's cute.

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2nd, how dare you imply I'm stupid?

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You are speaking to the almighty Xia, compared to her, you are stupid.

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I simply asked a question. Do I call you stupid? No! I don't

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Don't say such things!!!!Boy o boy...you're askin' for it

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See what I mean? Until there is a solid definition for being alive, then we will never be able to have a solid agreement on abortion.

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Exactly. If we could get a definition that every single person truly believed in, then there would be no need for a debate. But, since there are uncertainties on when life begins, don't you think we should give the benefit of the doubt to life? What if we don't know if it's alive - should we take the chance in killing it to make our lives easier? Even if it has the slightest amount of having human life, shouldn't we give the child the benfit of the doubt that it is living? I believe that life is too important to take such a risk.

1st, its Wind dancer & I don't do drugs.
2nd, how dare you imply I'm stupid?
I simply asked a question. Do I call you stupid? No! I don't; I have respect for even the lowest of scums. Shall we stay on topic please...

Dr.SL

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Well, you really can't ask the pro-lifers to offer women choice. To many, it's parallel to murder. Asking someone to tolerate unjustified murder as an acceptable thing in society is a bit much.

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Oh, do not worry, Dr.SL. I understand that; I was just trying to get that other guy to see that what he said does not make sense.

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This could give you the idea about who's got the stronger arguement.
It seems to me also that, especially for people who support abortion in all respects, that they have not fully thought out the consequences.
Not to say that those who base thier arguments on the Bible are any better.

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Lol, very true.

I agree with you in that too. I am not for abortion in all respects and I do not think it should be used in every situation. My mom knew a girl who had like 3 abortions just because she did not use any birth control. Later, when she wanted children, she had a tough time getting any because of her previous abortions. She's just one example of the people who think of abortion much too highly.

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Well, you've obviously made it clear you think the majority of pro-lifers are close minded and hellbent.

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Lol. Well, it is kinda hard to think otherwise. All they do is whine about how it is murder and bring the whole God thing into it. And since it is not seen as murder to everyone and not everyone believes in God, I think that it is fair to say that those are not very good secular arguments.

See, if someone could come up with a decent definition of life, then we would be able to settle this issue. Problem is, there is no good definition.

What is alive? Something that breathes? Well, plants do not have lungs, but they are considered alive. Something that has a soul? Well, some people think that animals do not have souls, but everyone here will agree that they are alive. Something that can think? Well, a couple of people on these boards cannot think either, and we consider them alive.

See what I mean? Until there is a solid definition for being alive, then we will never be able to have a solid agreement on abortion.

Hey, I haven't really been following the discussion, I just wanted to drop in my two cents.

I don't know much about the statistics of abortion, but it seems to me that a lot of girls use it as an easy way out. I personally think that if they are responsible enough to have sex, that they should take responsibility for whatever may come of it. The embryo will become a baby, and that baby will become an adult. I don't really think that the mother has the right to decide whether or not it gets to receive life. Obviously, it was MEANT to, since it started to grow and develop in her uterus. I think that if they absolutely do not have the means to take care of an support the baby, that they should give it up for adoption. It's not taking on full weight and responsibility, but it's not taking the chicken road.

I feel that the only time that an abortion is the least bit acceptible is when the pregnancy is giving the mother extreme health risks. And if even then, it has to be life-threatening, as in: the baby dies, or the mother dies. If that is the case, I think that the mother should have the opportunity to terminate the pregnancy. The mother can't make choices for her baby to do good in life and to make changes in the world, but she can make it a point to create changes for the better in her own life. That way, so long as she makes an effort, there is more of a...well, kind of more of a guarantee, because he has control of her life, not her child's. I think that that is the only acceptable time.

Granted, I am 16 and I don't know much. I like to think, but I am not very good at debating and standing up for my opinion, since I usually do not know all the facts, but there it is.

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Right. That is why the pro-choicers give choices to the women while the pro-lifers take them away. I can see your logic. </sarcasm>

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Well, you really can't ask the pro-lifers to offer women choice. To many, it's parallel to murder. Asking someone to tolerate unjustified murder as an acceptable thing in society is a bit much.

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I have not seen even ONE pro-life person on any of these boards give any decent reasons for or even think about their pro-choice stance. On the other hand, I have seen pro-choice people double-think their positions and because more-or-less neutral on the issue.

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This could give you the idea about who's got the stronger arguement.
It seems to me also that, especially for people who support abortion in all respects, that they have not fully thought out the consequences.
Not to say that those who base thier arguments on the Bible are any better.

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And before you try to bash me in an attempt that will be unsuccessful, I have no stance on abortion, so do not even try to go there with me.

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Well, you've obviously made it clear you think the majority of pro-lifers are close minded and hellbent.