quote:

This has probably been said, but marriage is about love, not kids.

Yes, it has. And again, Rosalyn, people do get married because they love each other. It's not unheard of; in fact it's quite common.

Why is this debate still alive? Your opinions are all well and good, Rosalyn, but it would appear that the vast majority of people here disagree with you very much. Why on Earth are you still trying to argue your points? It seems like a waste of time to me, considering you aren't likely to get any converts, especially when you say people who don't want kids shouldn't get married. When, exactly, did marriage become such an exclusive club?

There are more things to marriage than kids. With marriage comes a number of benefits to the couple, including the ability to write their spouses into their wills, visit them in hospitals, and get insurance that pays out to their spouses when they die. Without marriage, you don't get benefits like that. Civil unions simply don't compare in terms of benefits like that.

This has probably been said, but marriage is about love, not kids. If procreation is the main goal, why even bother with marriage? It'd be a lot more efficient if everyone could mate with anyone without all those nasty legal loopholes to jump through.

quote:

5. Children should not have to be in foster care. If it wasn’t for the corruption of America, there would be marriage as it is meant to be, and children would be born and cared for like they weren’t meant to be cared for. By outlawing marriage except for those who can reproduce, and by outlawing divorce, foster care will become unnecessary, and subsequently, nonexistent.

But the fact is, Rosalyn, much as you wish it wasn't true, people do have children out of wedlock, people do have unwanted children, and as of right now there really isn't anything you can do about it. So there are children who need love, children who need foster care. Would you deny care to that child? Do you have any idea what it feels like to be a foster child? Do you have any idea what it is like to look at a little girl with bruises covering her body because "she was bad," and "Mommy" did it? And Mommy was legally married to Daddy, so according to you, it was right of them to create this child. So would you willing leave this girl with those abusive parents when you know they could get better care elsewhere, perhaps from a single-sex couple?

Sorry for taking so long. I had finals last week, and before that, things were hectic.

Nomorewords:
1. Marriage is a societal construction meant to further one’s status and to pro-create off-spring in order to replace one’s self on this planet. Therefore, love is not needed, but a penis and vagina are.
2. People to replace ourselves is needed. If suddenly we couldn’t have children, what would happen to us? (See Children of Men if you’re interested.) Also, people who cannot reproduce, if they really must, can be together; they just can’t get married.
3. Do you have proof that people use a different part of the brain because I have heard nothing of that; last I knew it was still speculation and does not prove anything.
4. Consummation: the act of consummating; completion. Consummate: to complete (the union of a marriage) by the first marital sexual intercourse. (Courtesy of dictionary.com). In marriage, happiness has nothing to do with anything. Marriage is all about fulfilling a contract to society, the contract of receiving benefits in exchange for producing more societal and government workers.
5. Natural: things that are normal, occurring with high frequency in a non-chemically-altered state. Also, marriages did not begin as for love, and the divorce rate was low. Marriages began for wealth, for status, for the creation of children, not for love. People have been surviving marriage sans love and with all those problems for centuries; why should today’s world be any different?
Oh, and please don’t call me “honey.”
6. Gay marriage may not be illegal in every state, but it is against the constitution and against the law in many of them. Also, in polls, most Americans do not want gay marriage. Therefore, by granting it, it is causing the minority to win which, as can be seen in so many other instances, causes Americans agitation. This agitation can lead to protests and civil disobedience.
By the way, I have seen Brokeback Mountain and it shows a stereotypical gay relationship. Why should I watch a stereotypical view of how the west treats gays when the real thing is right outside, in the polls and in the politics?

LadyUnlucky:
1. Being of the female sex has no consequence of my opinions. Men also reach a certain age where they run a higher risk of adding to birth defects via deteriorating sperm. They, as well, should not be able to reproduce when they reach that time.
2. If they can’t reproduce, they are leeching off family benefits. If they do not have a family, if they do not add something to be productive to our society, then they should not be allowed the benefits, and subsequently, should not be allowed to marry.
3. Foreplay.
4. Yes, lesbianism is unnatural. Also, gay males do not insert an appendage in the correct edifice, therefore, the marriage cannot be consummated.
5. I’m sorry for your circumstances.
6. I’m not crazy, nor is anyone with a differing opinion. Liberals and Conservatives alike need to realize that a differing stance is not due to craziness, and the people do not need to be committed. Everyone just needs to listen.


Bren32:
1. Yes. Anyone not wishing to pro-create should not be allowed to be married.

Kate127:
1. Read everyone else’s response, then.

Little ninja:
1. Not to make a big deal out of this, but after conferring with others who do not share my viewpoint, it was decided that though you took offense, I did not technically insult you, personally, whereas you were on the verge of insulting me, personally. As a human being, and an American Citizen, I have the right to say things, no matter how controversial they are, without fear of backlash. I hope you can understand that.
2. You are a bit unclear in your first sentence, but I’ll try to answer based on what I think you are saying. How would the number of orphans skyrocket when those who cannot procreate cannot be married? There is no logical—or even semi-logical—connection between the two. Also, no one should have to adopt—as long as the marriage is not for “love,” divorce would be null and children would not be left out on the streets, but in a family unit with one mother figure and one father figure.
3. Of course I’m talking about more than gay marriage. This issue is broader than gay marriage. Gay marriage is just the tip of the iceberg of our society’s problems,

CLPO13:
1. You always need a reason for everything. And I’m always up for a good debate, so please, bring them on.

InvisibleGirl:
1. No. Nature can cause unnatural things, though perhaps unnatural is not the best term to use. Abnormal, deviant, perverted, etc. Nature makes things that fit those descriptions.
2. Well said. They should not have to pretend to be straight, should not have to be married as an act of pretending to be straight.
3. I am not religious so I will not quote from the Bible or any other religious text unless forced.
4. Marriage originally was not about love. It was a societal function meant to keep the rich rich, the poor poor, and children to be borne and taught their societal roles, whether it be an aristocrat or a serf.
5. Children should not have to be in foster care. If it wasn’t for the corruption of America, there would be marriage as it is meant to be, and children would be born and cared for like they weren’t meant to be cared for. By outlawing marriage except for those who can reproduce, and by outlawing divorce, foster care will become unnecessary, and subsequently, nonexistent.
6. To quote a commonly used sentiment: “Love doesn’t pay the bills.” If all you have is love, what happens when the love fades, when it dies? Love and prayers cannot keep a person completely living, completely cared for for their entire lives. Marriage can, even if it’s a “love”less marriage. When marriage is a societal contract, there is assurance that you will be cared for, and will not have to worry about other things.

quote:

What is everybody’s obsession with love? It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. It causes pain, ruins lives, ruins our society, our class barriers.

Love is the most beautiful and most important thing there is. If you have love and nothing else, then you have everything. Hoping for love is the reason I get up every morning and the reason I keep myself alive all day. Love sometimes causes pain, but also sometimes unequaled joy. Love is all it's cracked up to be, and then some. Nothing can equal the feeling of being loved.

Sorry these took awhile; I've been busy. I'll post the rest when I have a chance.

katiekaythejukebox:
1. I care. You apparently care as well, or else you wouldn’t have commented. Our society is going into shambles—Love is overrated, and causes more problems then it’s worth. The USA doesn’t go by a book—there is no concise ending, no exact rule for everything. In every case, there are exceptions. If the US isn’t controlled by a book, then neither are its people.
2. That isn’t to say that we shouldn’t—everything concerning justice should be blind. Marriage should not be about love, but about the values that they used to be about—status, children, etc. There was less divorce back then, which made the marriages worthy.

Evident:
1. People pay attention to two men or two women together because it’s not a natural occurrence in our society, and it’s disturbing. To see anyone with any form of affection in the street is disgusting. Not everyone wants to see that—besides, think of the children. We don’t want to scar them, now do we?
2. What is everybody’s obsession with love? It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. It causes pain, ruins lives, ruins our society, our class barriers. Gay marriage, being all about “love,” would only further the ruination of our society.
3. A dictation actually wouldn’t be a bad thing. Perhaps it is the thing that we need to whip America into shape.

AlittleNeon:
1. Again, this is not a joke. This is serious.
2. Not that it matters, but I’m a dudette. And I ask you not to pass judgment or insult me, and I will try to do the same to you.
3. Your relatives and friends can have companionship; that won’t ruin America. Them wanting to get married and getting married on the pretense of “love,” will.
4. To your being surprised anyone could reason like I do: You’d be surprised. I’m not the only one.

Chrisconner:
1. Driving cars should be strictly monitored; only for those who can properly handle it, and a driver should be re-tested every year.
2. Vitamins should be outlawed and the food pyramid should be strictly enforced. It is the only way to go to stop the world from going to Hell.
3. Even if marriage is “unnatural” at the beginning, for thousands of years, since around the start of agriculture, it has been natural for modern societies- used as a function of status and of procreation.
4. Why do people keep mentioning God?

Traggat12:
1. Just because someone has a different viewpoint does not mean that something is wrong with them.
2. marriage has everything to do with the government. How is the marriage legally sanctioned? Via the government. Where do the marriage benefits come from? The government. Marriage has little to do with love, and a lot to do with the government.
3. I use logic. I’m not a clairvoyant.

musicwriter12:
1. Why is everything about love these days? All love does is create problems. Marriage should be about it’s original design: A political institution meant to create offspring. Homosexuals cannot, feasibly, create offspring sans outside means. By that definition alone, it should be disallowed.
2. We are meant to populate. Women, after menopause, should go into housing with other post-menopausal women; likewise, women and men who cannot reproduce should also go into housing for those like them. That way, we have a society of constant reproductive means. However, when men get too old, they will also be forced to desist in reproduction in an attempt to weed out birth defects that studies show can be attributed to the age of the male in which the sperm given came from.
3. Going the God route is never a wise decision but if you insist: He did not create them: he created the sin. They need to change their ways, and devoid themselves of sin.

Xholdurheadhix:
1. I’m not criticizing anyone; I’m just stating an argument.
2. Seriously, what’s with all the bringing up of God? Just because someone disagrees with gay marriage does not make it because of God, religion, country, or political stance.

LeDouche
1. Not a bad idea concerning marriage. However, why are you complaining about your midlife crisis on a youth-oriented site? The majority of us can relate seeing as a lot of us are still in school.

Jadein2011:
1. You disagree with homosexuality, you think your friends are ruining their lives, yet you disagree with me disagreeing with gay marriage and don’t seem to help your friends? Is that what you’re basically saying?

quote:

Please do list them. I’m dying to hear them.
And if my post was a waste of time to read, then why did you? And why did you waste even more time in order to comment?

I said I could, not that I would. The point was that they'd be my opinions, making them just as "right" as your opinions.

As for reading your post, I didn't know it was going to be a waste of time until I actually read it. And why comment? Well, that's the sort of thing I do. Do I need a reason for that?

quote:

Sphinx:
1. No. Everyone has their own agenda. Watch Legally Blonde 2 for a general idea.

What would be the point? If it doesn't lead to a pregnancy I see no biological and natural reason for me to do so.

It would seem that this discussion has expanded from simply gay marriage and gone into marriage in general.

quote:

. If they cannot naturally procreate, then they are leeching off of society’s benefits. People hate it when people don’t work and leech off of others’ tax dollars, so why is this any different?
Love should really be taken out of the marriage equation because it seems to be more detrimental to our society than helpful. If it weren’t for “love,” we wouldn’t have divorce.

If they did that, and you said no one likes that and if we do that then the number of orphans would skyrocket and no one would adopt because that would be supposedly "leeching" and how is that not a detriment to society? Your lumping everyone together, your not just talking about gay marriage anymore. Your talking about civility, women who have gone through menopause and everything like that.

*Tanya*

I would just like to make the statement that I didn't insult her first....she made the initial attack when she gave her opinion on lesbianism, that offended me. Thanks.

*Tanya*

quote:

Originally posted by Kate127:
Dear Lord....

It would seem that others have said most of what needs saying, so I won't bother rephrasing.

And I'm totally up for the pirate thing. To the Bleeding HeartIt must be lovely to wake up in the morning and understand everything

Hallelujah and amen to that. lol

Dear Lord....

It would seem that others have said most of what needs saying, so I won't bother rephrasing.

And I'm totally up for the pirate thing. To the Bleeding Heart!

I think that some churches actually do, in their wedding vows, have the couple promise to "bear children." But it definitely isn't in anything legal...Anyway, that's a good point. There are a lot of happily married couples with no children. Again, this is marrying for love, Rosalyn.

what about the couples that just dont want to procreate? they love each other and want to get married, but does that mean they have to have kids?

Actually, Rosalyn kind of reminds me of my grandma, with all the "homosexuality is wrong because I say so" stuff. Although, my grandma is more religious about it. Rosalyn has not yet quoted Romans 1:26, which I now know by heart after hearing it so many times.

wow. I cannot believe that someone would say things like this. Especially a woman...in case she didn't know there is a time in a woman's life when she won't be able to pro-create anymore. How could you say that anyone who can't have children should not be allowed to marry. Maybe the person has some kind of birth defect, maybe they had cancer, who knows...you can't punish someone for something like that. About the 3rd stipulation...that is not a very common thing to happen. Once in a great while it will but a man and woman's bodies are very different (as we all learned from an early age) and a typical male can orgasm with around 14 thrusts (a few minutes maybe) while it takes most women 20 minutes of direct stimulation (not intercourse). 2nd stipulation...so lebianism is unnatural??? That description that you posted does not seem to include gay males. They have natural appendages below the waist, and edifices above the knee to insert in...think about that one. 4th stipulation..."no matter the circumstances" I have seen first hand how horrible those circumstances can be. I have seen my mother beaten. I know that she was raped on multiple occasions. My father beat me, mentally abused me, and sexually abused me when I was very small (my parents divorced when I was 4...if that gives you any idea).

I don't know where you get your ideas from, but you are crazy. I think that you live in your own little world, and you need to be committed to an asylum.

But gay people can love each other. It's that simple.

yes i know and can see that but im not part of that good many of ppl..i do not belive gay marriage and homosexuality is right.. and marriage is not all about just haveing kids it'a about love between to ppl but gay marraige is unnatural...and wrong

quote:

Originally posted by jadein2011:
no im saying that God shuns homosexuality and it is frawned apon...it's a sin!! thats all im saying and yes they as well be ruining there lives!

How can being true to yourself ruin your life? Let me tell you, I know how hard it is to always be pretending. And have you read this whole thread? Because it would seem that a good many people think there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. (I'm not trying to be rude or insulting to your views or anything - sorry if it sounds that way.)