FreeMarketLover, I really liked your description of the Denver skyline. You inspired me to go outside and look at it.

Mnajrda Temple which I was reffering to is on Malta so I admit that. But the 600 bc mesopotamian ziggurats were also poorly designed and they still stand. They were building glorified piles of rubble while the egyptians were building the pyramids with intricate hallways inside. Without knowing how to find the area of a circle you can't claim that a good understanding of geometry is possesed. Archimedes discovered the formula to find the Area of a circle. The purpose of my argument was that these buildings are old and still stand. Stone and brick aren't as resilliant as steel and plexiglass.

quote:

The temples were very poorly designed from todays standards. since I live today, they were poorly designed. Mesopotamian temples were designed by neolithic-man. They hadn't even discovered geometry yet(archimedes 200 B.C.). Obviosly you haven't seen many mono/neo-lithic mesopotamian temples.

I own books on Mesopotamian civilization. Mesopotamia was not neolithic, first of all. It was most definately in the bronze age, at its most antient time. The mesopotamians most definately had geometry. I have seen translations of word problems that have to do with trigonometry and geometry. (all agricultural societies need geometry to survive.) You think archemedes invented geometry? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. The egyptians were using the concepts of the Pythagorean Therum as early as 2000 BC. And there are no monolithic temples in Mesopotamia, being that there is no stone. Maybe you are thinking about the isle of Malta.

Our buildings today are too complex to stand on their own for thousands of years. What are the pyramids and ziggarats of ancient times? They are solid structures, more like mountains than actual buildings.

northstar... The temples were very poorly designed from todays standards. since I live today, they were poorly designed. Mesopotamian temples were designed by neolithic-man. They hadn't even discovered geometry yet(archimedes 200 B.C.). Obviosly you haven't seen many mono/neo-lithic mesopotamian temples. The popular science thing doesn't fly with me. They were the same people who said Hale-Bopp would hit earth and that the hoover dam wouldn't hold more than 10 years. Hale-bop flew prettily by, and after 65 succesful years of hoover dam operation, the only confidence I have regarding Popular science is that they will be consistantly wrong. It seems that you simply hate capitolism with such zeal that you are willing to accept any "Farenheit 451"esque prediction about the future.

the responsibility of any party is proportional to their size- a single person should be expected to not litter, to treat the people with whom they interact (including those they employ) with respect, to pay a percentage of their income as taxes, and to serve their community in some way or another. Corporations should be expected to do the same things, but on a larger scale because they are bigger than individual people. they are expected to not litter by reducing pollution in their factories and not wasting resources, to treat people with respect by paying fair wages and ensuring the safety of their workers, to pay a percentage of their income as taxes (note that using percentages ensures proportionality), and to serve their community by donating money, time, or resources to charitable causes. I try to do all that on a daily basis, and so should microsoft and new balance. economic progress is a wonderful thing, but just because you are successful doesn't mean you can forget your duty to society.

note to maya- if you want to earn respect around here, write eloquent (or at least readable) posts and recognize when swearing is innapropriate.

so if a tank of boiling water explodes and kills workers, it is their fault, right?

No, it is because corporations are set at a higher standard. They have a "moral and societal obligation" to cut into their hard earned profits to pay insane taxes, high wages, and crazy union benifits. That is wrong. There is no such thing as a corporate responsibility.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushsupporter:
No, it is wrong for individuals to litter it is wrong for corporations to pollute. Is that clear enough. If individuals can pay babysitters at a market-set rate, corporations should be able to do the same.

bacause, generally,babysitters don't live off their wages. And there is a personal bond between a babysitter and her employer. They would not try to cheat her/him.

No, it is wrong for individuals to litter it is wrong for corporations to pollute. Is that clear enough. If individuals can pay babysitters at a market-set rate, corporations should be able to do the same.

quote:

well engineered glass, Iron and stone testaments to capitalism will serve as an everlasting symbol of our greatness.

If the inhabitants of NY City were to mystreiously vanish in one minute, it would take 300 years for the bridges to fall, and 1500 for the towers. I read that in a magaize on popular science.

quote:

They will endure. If poorly designed ancient mesopotamian temples withstood 15,000 years of torment

How were they poorly planned, again?

quote:

No I disagree that corporations be held to standards other than individual's just because they are corporations - hence why I said I was uncomfortable with that phrase.

just wanted to make sure I'd understood correctly before I responded, so you're against corporations being obliged to keep pollution levels low?

quote:

By the way, it is really cute to curse while trying to make an intellectual argument.

thanks

No I disagree that corporations be held to standards other than individual's just because they are corporations - hence why I said I was uncomfortable with that phrase. By the way, it is really cute to curse while trying to make an intellectual argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushsupporter:

quote:

corporate responsibilities

This phrase scares me. They have no more responsibility than a normal citizen. It is unfair to ask anything of them that you would not want to be asked to do.

why don't you post the whole sentence:
business is bad when they
"ignoring their corporate responsibilities (like keeping pollution levels low) in order to make more money."

If you disagree with that you are seriously ****ed up.

quote:

corporate responsibilities

This phrase scares me. They have no more responsibility than a normal citizen. It is unfair to ask anything of them that you would not want to be asked to do.

i believe i can come to a conclusion, based on what i think and what you have said, of what we are trying to get across. it's really quite simple: big bussiness is good because it creates jobs, keeps prices low, and leads to economic progress. Big bussiness is bad when top executives start lying to the public, using slave labor, or ignoring their corporate responsibilities (like keeping pollution levels low) in order to make more money.

by the way- anybody who thinks that architecture is not art is an idiot. which is why i find it hard to believe that celtic would ever say that.

I am looking for kleenex to dry my eyes after that post. It was truly beautiful. Thank God for you FML.

Celtic apparently doesn't think that architecture is a form of art. Just because something is functional doesn't mean it's not art. Maybe Buildings don't defame our senses with naked bodies that excite your liberal avant garde sense of rebellion. but you can't tell me that Denver's glistening skyscrapers, reflecting the majesty of the Rocky Mountains and the fiery Western sky aren't to be described as beautiful. They will endure. If poorly designed ancient mesopotamian temples withstood 15,000 years of torment from sun, rain, and sand to outlast even natural phenomena such as the russo-alaskan landbridge. Our well engineered glass, Iron and stone testaments to capitalism will serve as an everlasting symbol of our greatness. the only ones who can bring them down (other than god) is man; not time.

I'm sadly still trying to figure what this board is truly about. I get the thing about the big business and stuff but what was the point of this? Are you trying to say that it is beautiful what business's are doing and turning our country into or what?

"greatness?" Well, I certainly see progress, but you are making it sound like we are trying to conquer the world! (Indeed, many are) I think it IS great, but look at how many other GREAT things we have destroyed as sacrifice for our own GREATNESS.

quote:

---

Nothing wroat by the hands of man will last the final test: the test of time.

---

Nor will it let us stand the test of time.