Excuse the "hippie" as she gets idealistic.

The bi-prodructs from making new "more efficient" cars are simply not worth it. Keep your old car, convert your engine to run on biodiesel, smile at how environmentally friendly you are being, and hardly have to worry about gas and it's high prices again!

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Finn, HOW much lighter would a carbon-bodied car be? A lighter car would have more problems sticking to the road, which would effect performance and might make it dangerous to drive.

hmmm...that's a good point.

Thermal depolymerization? Now that's one I've never heard of. Sounds fascinating though.

Finn, HOW much lighter would a carbon-bodied car be? A lighter car would have more problems sticking to the road, which would effect performance and might make it dangerous to drive.

And as far as Hydrogen fuel goes, it's a total waste of time. Unless we're using large amounts of nuclear power to create the gas, it's going to eat up more oil and coal than it saves.

The real solution is thermal depolymerization.

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Originally posted by finn620:
Making enough ethanol to fuel the entire world's demands, which is really our long-term goal, is not realistic.

I'm not going to pretend that I understand all of this, but do you mean using pure ethanol or using gasohol? Because I thought that increases the emissions of nitrogen oxides, contributing to acid rain.

sweet, I'm all for it then! As long as they don't make SUVs out of it

If you're concerned about the actual physics of collisions, the carbon bodies are still a good choice. For one thing, the momentum of the lighter car will be lower, and thus it will require a lesser impulse to bring the car to a stop. If the collision is just the lightweight going off course and slamming into something, less damage will be done because the object in the car's path will not have to exert as much force to bring the car to a halt (likewise, the car will not exert as much force on the object, resulting in less damage being done to both).

In a two car collision, the steel car will have a larger momentum and exert a greater force on the lightweight than the lightweight exerts on it. However, the strength of the carbon body will allow it to hold up to this force. Also, these body designs are built to crumple under a collision and not stay rigid. Thus, the actual time the collision takes will happen over a longer period of time during the crumpling, which results in a longer time component to the impulse and a lower force component.

Another good thing about carbon bodies: The material is dyed, not painted, which saves money and resources from paint jobs.

Okay. Think of it this way. Spiderweb strands are lighter than steel of the same thickness, but considerably stronger. It's the same deal with certain kinds of carbon.

Carbon comes in a lot of different forms, depending on the structure of the atoms. Graphite consists of single-atom thin layers of carbon crystals which slide over each other - which is why graphite smears so easily. On the other hand, diamonds are also composed of carbon crystals, but have a different arrangment and are the hardest known natural substance. There are certain forms of carbon (I need to do more research because I cannot remember their names) which are much much stronger than steel and are used in bullet proof vests, firefighter gear, and so on. A lot of the fuel efficient prototypes have lightweight carbon bodies that can stand up against steel.

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Originally posted by finn620:
Evidently you are not well versed in engineering. Weight has nothing to do with strength. Carbon composite bodies are far stronger than steel ones, but weigh a lot less.

hmm..evidently not. But I'm still kinda skeptical. How would carbon hold up in an impact against steel?

Evidently you are not well versed in engineering. Weight has nothing to do with strength. Carbon composite bodies are far stronger than steel ones, but weigh a lot less.

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Making enough ethanol to fuel the entire world's demands, which is really our long-term goal, is not realistic

Well, I don't know about the rest of the world, but it sure as hell will be enough for America. We have so much corn, we don't even know what to do with it.

And I do remember having this almost identical conversation a while ago. Somebody was talking abou hydrogen fuel having a lot of problems.

And I'm not sure its a great idea to make cars lighter. I don't know how you are going to sell them into the market. Nobody is going to want to buy a car that will stand up like paper if it gets into a reck with another car. Good luck with that one.

And the manufacturers have built thier cars' engines to support ethanol fuel for over 5 or 6 years now. They have been preparing for it, and I think they would know what would work best for cars since they are the ones making them.

I agree lighter weight=less gas needed

or we can all just ride motorcycles some thing like 50miles to the gallon on average

are you kidding? GM has a hydrogen test fleet operating smoothly in the DC area right now and solar power is a highly efficent energy source you just need to live in Arizona, Australia or Africa/Arabia (or any where with sun)

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again simple economics

by cutting production you decrease your supply but demand stays the same, this alllows you to raise the prices again.

Obviously...something I addressed in my first post, I was just being more specific

And solar, wind, and hydrogen?! Try ethanol. Nobody is going to be running to those three, they have all proved to be failures, except for wind lol...I have yet to see someone drive a windmill

Yeah...I'm in the over 30 club with a Chevy Cobalt that gets over 30 MPG highway...I have never paid over $30 for gasoline. I filled up my tank (the arrow was on E) for only $29.50 today.

While I liked it a lot more when gas was only $1.95 (which it got down to in my area at one point recently), the high gas prices don't kill me as much as most other people because I don't use much gas to begin with. SUV's are dangerous to other drivers and they use up our precious natural resources...and both of my parents drive 'em...

because of those stupid SUVS and HUMMERS and other gas hogs

I think it's because people are riding around in gas guzzerlers(sp?) to look so damn cool. I can remember when gas was 97 cents here in MS. That was when I was maybe 14 so around 7 years ago. It has changed so much, because it's not fair for me to have a Dodge that gets 19 miles/gallon compared to someone riding in a Hummer for 2 what 3 miles/gallon. What they should do is have those cars run on diesel and let people with reasonable cars have the cheap gas. I bet that would fix their asses.

again simple economics

by cutting production you decrease your supply but demand stays the same, this alllows you to raise the prices again.

I'd do it myself if I was an oil sheik, then I would invest that money in alternative forms of power like solar, wind and hydrogen so that I can make a killing when people rush for those power forms when the oil starts to run short

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2. We use about 178 million gallons of gasoline every day (twice as much as 1980)

I think that pretty much covers the reason for demand. But the real reason the prices have skyrocketed so high in the past few years isn't because demand skyrocketed, its because OPEC (the 11 countries that produce most of the world's oil) have cut their production and raised the price of crude oil barrels.

actually while what you listed are factors the real reason for the high prices are a simple economics. Simply put the reason for the high gas prices is supply and demand.

Now if I have a supply of "X" and there is a huge demand for "X" I will of course jack up my prices so that I make the most money possible per unit of "X" shipped and sold.

as I said basic economics

gas prices in Europe are much higher...and have been long before prices in America started to rise. So compared to them, ours aren't actually that high. Buuut, if you are wondering why they keep gettin higher in our country, then here: how stuff works: gas prices educate yourself

Just in case you dont want to do that, then I'll give you a few reasons.
1. SUVs
2. We use about 178 million gallons of gasoline every day (twice as much as 1980)
3. The US depends alot on foreign oil supplies (OPEC) and they decide on how much they want to produce. The less they produce, the more money they make. In 2001, they reduced production by 1 million barrells per day, making the prices rise.
4. World events, war, and weather can make it difficult for oil companies to drill and ship the oil (Hurrican Katrina and violence in the Middle East have somewhat of an effect)

* actually the most significant one of those is number 3. The other reasons are just more issues that don't help the situation.

And btw, why is this in Relief Efforts? Are you trying to get relieved from the price of gas? Cuz if thats the case, then I'm totally with you on that