I could not support an ideal that excludes pragmatism. I think anarchy is the antithesis of pragmatism.

An ideal communinity, anarchism. The spontaneous and free organization of the masses. If marine16 and FML join the revolution, they wont ahve to be killed.

Seriously though, i know you guys will, 'cause you're cowards.

quote:

I am saying it will only work if everyone agrees to make it works and wants to make it work

Oh I see. Kind of like a cult.

quote:

Maybe what I'm talking about isn't either socialism or communism.

Maybe what you are talking about is complete, irrational, communism. But what do I know?

quote:

Wait a minute, if you say it will work in these communitieis, then why can't it work in the rest of the world? Those people aren't corrupt, so why are you assuming everyone else is.

I am saying it will only work if everyone agrees to make it works and wants to make it work. If the rest of the world all really wanted to make it work and agreed to make it work, then it would work. But as shown by this post, that is not happening. I don't assume everyone else is, I assume some people are, and those are the people who would take advantage of the situation and just get what they need and not do their part. Maybe what I'm talking about isn't either socialism or communism. Its everyone working together for the good of the whole community, giving what you have and helping others. If everyone thinks mainly of others, then everyone would be thought of!

Yeah, Communism is a system in which everything is run by a large, essentially authoritarian state.

Anarchism is a system in which there is almost no state.

They're both socialist, but one's Marx, and the others Bakunin.

quote:

Originally posted by AMERICAISDOOMED:
Communism is a complete lack of goverment with everyone working together.

I think thats anarchism...

ok socialism is a baby form of communism. Communism is a complete lack of goverment with everyone working together. socialism is something that does not work.

duh dudes marx was some drunk german dude

Marx was a fool. He believed in authoritarian communism, based around the state.

The state opresses people, there needs to be no such thing, only then can true socialism exist.

Shananagin, as to your question regading communism and socialism. Communism allows for no private property while socialism allows for minimal private property. In socialism the government controls the market, as in communism, but in communism the government controls everything outside the market as well.

quote:

Again, I agree that it can't work for the world. People are too corrupt.

Wait a minute, if you say it will work in these communitieis, then why can't it work in the rest of the world? Those people aren't corrupt, so why are you assuming everyone else is.

quote:

Only people who have never had money say this. This is simply not true. What about power? What about sex?

Please read the original post. I have always had plenty of money, and I still think it is the source of corruption. Sex has nothing to do with corruption, and I fail to see where you draw this connection.

quote:

No, they don't have to share their toys. Their parent's worked hard to buy their toys and gave them to their children. It is the child's personal property and he can do whatever he wants with it within lawful limits. he is under no obligation legally or socially to share it in any way if he so chooses

Did you ever go to preschool? Even if they aren't forced to share, the teachers get mad if you don't. And also they have to share the toys that belong to the preschool. I don't know what it was like in your family when you were little, but my parents, teachers, and all others who might have been looking after me always taught me to share.

quote:

Yeah, everyone would work real hard then and we would never have any advancements.

I agree. That is the flaw with socialism/communism. In a perfect world, people would be self motivated and money wouldnt be nescessary. I have never said communism /socialism is perfect. I have only said that it would be great IF it could work.

quote:

Actually the community you discussed was comunist, not socialist. Just becaused it worked does not mean it is a good idea.

Please explain to me the difference between socialism and communism. I am confused about it. My point is that it can work for small communities of willing and eager participants. Again, I agree that it can't work for the world. People are too corrupt.

quote:

Why would I want to go through high level education, get a good job and work my butt off at it and only get paid as much as a burger flipper?

Agreed. The flaw of communism is that, those who kill themselves to get where they are don't get anything in the end. Plus, the no property thing is just insane.

quote:

money (a particularly bad type of personal property) is the source of all corruption.

Only people who have never had money say this. This is simply not true. What about power? What about sex?

quote:

If people were more like preschool students and learned that you have to share your toys

No, they don't have to share their toys. Their parent's worked hard to buy their toys and gave them to their children. It is the child's personal property and he can do whatever he wants with it within lawful limits. he is under no obligation legally or socially to share it in any way if he so chooses.

quote:

I said that it would be good if you didn't get payed at all.

Yeah, everyone would work real hard then and we would never have any advancements.

quote:

My point is that a socialist community can work.

Actually the community you discussed was comunist, not socialist. Just becaused it worked does not mean it is a good idea.

quote:

Why would I want to go through high level education, get a good job and work my butt off at it and only get paid as much as a burger flipper?

What? Where did I say that? I did not say that is what would happen, I said that it would be good if you didn't get payed at all. If no one got payed, and if instead everyone worked for the good of society in general. Everyone doing what they could and getting what they needed, helping just for the sake of helping. It could never happen, humans are too greedy, but if it could, it would be amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by Shananagin1618:
No, actually, money (a particularly bad type of personal property) is the source of all corruption. If people were more like preschool students and learned that you have to share your toys, then everyone woud definately be happier.

Why would I want to go through high level education, get a good job and work my butt off at it and only get paid as much as a burger flipper?

quote:

I'm sure it would be fun, if you were a farmer. But what about those who feel their talents are best served elsewhaere, I guess they just have to suck it up. Besides, just because farming is 'fun' to your friend does not mean it is an example of how perfect communism is.

My point is that a socialist community can work. I don't think it is a perfect system, and if you don't like farming, you don't join a kibbutz. Or you could help in another way, like cooking for the community, or something. A kibbutz is like a big family, everyone has to do their chores.

quote:

That is just scary.

No, actually, money (a particularly bad type of personal property) is the source of all corruption. If people were more like preschool students and learned that you have to share your toys, then everyone woud definately be happier.

quote:

They are small socialist farming communities, and they really work, and my friend who worked on one for a while told me that it was really fun.

I'm sure it would be fun, if you were a farmer. But what about those who feel their talents are best served elsewhaere, I guess they just have to suck it up. Besides, just because farming is 'fun' to your friend does not mean it is an example of how perfect communism is.

quote:

I don't nescessarily think that is a bad thing...

That is just scary.

quote:

No, communism is a system based on corruption, capitalism is a system based on competition (which brings out the best in people).

Communism is corrupted socialism, at least that is my impression. Socialism is a good thing that would be wonderful and amazing accept for human fault. And please don't tell me you believe that capitalism isn't corrupt, because is totally has its corruptions too.

quote:

I would never call something that puts down individuality, creativity, and the ability to reach ones full potential as great. But maybe that is just me.

Neither would I! Maybe I have a different idea of socialism then you do. Have you ever been to/ read about kibbutz in Israel? They are small socialist farming communities, and they really work, and my friend who worked on one for a while told me that it was really fun.

quote:

Wrong, it is a system based on stripping everyone of private property

I don't nescessarily think that is a bad thing...