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Originally posted by ampmaster:
and Kate what's wrong with trippy? it's a good word

Don't you remember? THere was like a 3 day long debate on what the word trippy ment! You had decided to leave the site for a weekend after posting the word, and we were all left in horrible suspence for days!! It was awefull!

Yes I am a big fan of overdramatic speaches

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didn't opium go out in like the late 1930's?

That's what makes it all the more appealing

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well it's got to be I mean a 7' 2" Persian i can belive but 72(we are off by 60 I checked) not gonna happen I mean I haven't seen 72 on earth and that's counting the guy in the mirror and discounting all people under vows of celebacy and under the age of 15

Haha, thats a big assumption considering you can't see virginity. But 72? Wow, people are really pushing their luck.


And the dream thing is definetly trippy. It's difficult to wrap your head around. But what you said about them being a part of your subconscious that knows what is really going on in the universe...I thought about this, and it seems like if the times when you're dreaming are what is real, then we would be able to have control over those too, wouldn't we? And it seems odd that we would have the perception that what happens in dreams don't make any sense and what happens when we are not dreaming does make sense. But then again, I'm not quite sure that what I just said made much sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that dreams are a concept that is of this world. If this world doesn't exist, then everything in it, doesn't either.

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The question is not so much as if the world exists, but what existence is.

True, it exists to "us", but we will never know if it exists in truth because we will never know the truth. All we have is what we believe. But as far as other senses of consciousness, we also have unconsciousness and the subconscious, which are both just as mysterious as consciousness. Except we feel we can control ourselves when we are conscious...at least in most circumstances

That makes sense Kat

and Kate what's wrong with trippy? it's a good word

The question is not so much as if the world exists, but what existence is.

The world exists because we decide it exists. There is nothing else we have but OUR definition of existence. Since it meets OUR definition, which is being, and it does, in fact, be, the world exists. Just like the rest of the universe. There really is no other way to put it, because we have no other sense of consciousness.

Accually my friends and I had a whole big thing about what if the world is a dream. We had several possible theorise.

Oh no, not the word trippy again!

didn't opium go out in like the late 1930's?

well it's got to be I mean a 7' 2" Persian i can belive but 72(we are off by 60 I checked) not gonna happen I mean I haven't seen 72 on earth and that's counting the guy in the mirror and discounting all people under vows of celebacy and under the age of 15

and that last bit is a seriously trippy thing I've got to say. With dreams though you are in the realm of the subconcius which is supposedly the part of you that knows what is really going on in the whole universe but the you have all these insane dreams like i live lives in my dreams hell I just lived a section of a life last night, I'll spare you the slacious details but it felt like life and I couldn't tell it wasn't life till I woke up.

So whose to say we aren't dreaming right now? that this whole universe is one huge dream and we live whole diffrent lives when we wake up that we can't remeber when we dream?

(whoooo boy is that trippy or what?)

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don't worry about your head spining you spend enough time on this thread your brain becomes more resilient

Or it just makes you sound like a raving lunatic who's high on opium (which is perfectly fine with me )

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what I was trying to say about the whole "next reality" thing was not a life after death it was more like that we die when we have surppased this plane as a being and move on to the next one, were not dead so we can't be going to heaven just continuing life on a new level

Yeah, I was saying that heaven might be your next "level" if that's what you believe is going to happen. So basically whatever you believe will take place once you have become "dead", then that is what your mind will create next.

And wow, I had no idea that the whole 12 virgins thing was a mistranslation...Tsk tsk, somebody screwed up big time on that. So, in reality, some people believe that if they die in the name of God, that they will recieve white raisins? I would be pissed! I die in the name of God and I get a bunch of raisins? Talk about lame.

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think about it how often do you have control over your dreams? I know I never have control over my dreams so my dreams end up going in weird directions or directions I don't like and directions that are very cool and that I enjoy but I can never control which way I'm going with that

But then again, the whole concept of "dreams" might just be part of the whole illusion that our minds our making up.

don't worry about your head spining you spend enough time on this thread your brain becomes more resilient

what I was trying to say about the whole "next reality" thing was not a life after death it was more like that we die when we have surppased this plane as a being and move on to the next one, were not dead so we can't be going to heaven just continuing life on a new level

The 12 Virgins thing is that you think that if you die in the name of God you'll recieve 12 virgins in heaven. The funny thing about this is that 1. the whole virgins thing is a mistranslation of the Koran it was orgionally "white rasins" (very similer words in the translating lanugaes apparently)

With your theory again it's the whole subconcious thing all over again we know subconiously that this isn't real and that there is something more out there as to the control thing think about it how often do you have control over your dreams? I know I never have control over my dreams so my dreams end up going in weird directions or directions I don't like and directions that are very cool and that I enjoy but I can never control which way I'm going with that

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well if we exist in a "real" universe and the universe we (asuming we all exist) is a product of our combined diseased imaginations the thought of beyond could be a result of our sub-concious being aware that this is not reality and knowing that the "real" universe is something beyond this one

good one

Ok, I think I remember what I was trying to suggest before. Bear with me if this makes no sense. But, if we DO make up this world (as in our minds creating it), then wouldn't we have some sort of control over it? And because of that, why would there be set rules or "laws of nature" that we cannot go around? And because we are the creators of our own world, why would we feel the need to look beyond this "world" and start believing in a higher being (or beings) if WE were the ones who created what's around us? I would think that we would start believing these things only because we DON"T have control over what's around us. To me, that's the only logical reason people would try to find answers beyond themselves.

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another theory about death is that we don't die, we pass on to another plane of existance we evolve or whatever you want to call (ascend is a good word)

Or, maybe whatever it is that we believe in will happen. In other words, if you believe that you go to heaven after you die, then that is what will be your next "reality." If you believe that people just die and become nothing, then maybe that is your next fate. Hmmm...kinda gives you a reason to believe in heaven (and then there is that whole 12 virgins thing..lol i dont know too much about this, but I know people believe it)

Yikes...*head is spinning*

well if we exist in a "real" universe and the universe we (asuming we all exist) is a product of our combined diseased imaginations the thought of beyond could be a result of our sub-concious being aware that this is not reality and knowing that the "real" universe is something beyond this one

another theory about death is that we don't die, we pass on to another plane of existance we evolve or whatever you want to call (ascend is a good word) so if that's ture is it possible that all of this (universe) is a series of stimuli designed to prepare us for a real life on a higher plane of existence?
(*re-reads the previous* wow that's really trippy)

I love this topic so much

dammit...I'm trying to think where I was going with that one. Ummmm...It'll come to me, I promise

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BUT what I would like to know is that if our minds had imagined an entire universe like this, then how do we create an idea that there is something beyond it?

If our minds are capable of creating an entire universe, whose to say we can't create multiple universes, or go beyond our own creation....

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So I can't be sure "we" exists because I can't be sure there's a "we" around all I know is that I exist and for all I know this entire universe is the result of my diseased imaginings

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say before. "Trying" being the key word. You said it better than me Amp. I was speaking for "WE", as in you or me. All we are sure of is ourself existing, in some kind of form.

But I don't think I (or we) will ever truly know because I (or we) are only temporary. I can't be quite sure what happens after death, but I don't doubt that it'll happen. It has to happen if my mind structured the "world" like this.

BUT what I would like to know is that if our minds had imagined an entire universe like this, then how do we create an idea that there is something beyond it? For some reason, that just doesn't seem to fit.

And this whole existing argument makes me feel like I'm going to implode...but I don't hate it

well what I'm saying is that were not sure I know only one thing, that I exist I don't know if you exist I'm just responding to a set of sensory perceptions my mind shows to be the writings of a 20 year old human female. So I can't be sure "we" exists because I can't be sure there's a "we" around all I know is that I exist and for all I know this entire universe is the result of my diseased imaginings

really the whole question of how and why and if something exists is a mental exercise and I enjoy trying to wrap my brain around the concept it's quite an intresting challenge

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But what if, as the author of your signature would agree Holliewood, it is just the product of your deranged imagination? If you are insane and only dreaming it, then it doesn't really exist, only the illusion of it existing does.

Yes, Douglas Adams was a very interesting man. Although I'm not sure if he believed specifically that the world did not exist, just that we can't be sure of anything. I'm sure he wouldn't discount the idea though.

But I guess what you are asking is basically what is real? If everything that we know has been made up or is an illusion, then so would the concept of us having "minds" and there being "imagination" and "insanity". If everything is an illusion, then I guess we would never be able to know exactly what is "real". The problem with this theory, is that you could run yourself into circles. I think the important thing that we can be sure of, is that something exists. WE exist. Even though we might not be sure what exactly WE is, there is at least something that is being created, whether in our "minds" or "for real."

But what does it matter, though, how it exists? Just the fact that it does, in some form.

Yikes, I really hope that makes a little bit of sense. lol

exactly if you guys have read I think it's Life the Universe and Every Thing, where they go to track down the ruler of the universe and he makes the point that you can only be sure of what's aroun you and you can't really be sure of that. I am sure of only one thing and that is myself, I respond to the sensory perception that others exist in forums from here to this site but I can't be sure they exist. People say there are 6 or so billion people on this world but how can I be sure of that I'm not sure of anything outside of the four walls I'm currently in and I can't really be sure of them I know what I percieve them to be but I don't know what other percieve them to be much less what they are.

I see what you mean; if it exists as a concept, then it exists. But what if, as the author of your signature would agree Holliewood, it is just the product of your deranged imagination? If you are insane and only dreaming it, then it doesn't really exist, only the illusion of it existing does.

Here's the way I see it. If you are asking that question, then yeah. You have some idea or concept of a world, so it must exist in some form.

So true, not to mention politics. Just because you say your a republican or a democrat the first thing that some idiot says in a debate you agree/disagree with. That is the ultament(sp) form of mind controll.

well on mind control I think that mind control is common in this world. I mean turn on the TV or open a newspaper or magazine it's full of things telling you how to live, what to eat, what to drink and how to think on any number of subjects. If that's not mind control what is?